Don’t be like This Guy!

[deuce2626]

Does anyone know if it was a “No knock” raid? I hope it wasn’t a situation where they stormed his house without a knock and he was scared and protecting himself. If he knew they were agents and pointed his gun well then the agents were justified in protecting themselves.

 

[Bolt Head]

I'm usually not overly concerned with things like this but lately it just seems this could be any law-abiding citizen that might voice their frustration.

When you have government agencies that start writing laws and interpreting laws anyway they choose, attempting to make millions of law-abiding gun owners criminals it's time to be concerned.

When the DOJ has obviously become political weapon, it's time to be concerned.

I'm a rational easy-going person but something like this is very alarming.

I agree. It is very concerning. Similar happened under obama. I believe we're in obama's 3rd term. Child Sniffer isn't running our country, as it's just a puppet, IMO.

 

[Bolt Head]

I'm usually not overly concerned with things like this but lately it just seems this could be any law-abiding citizen that might voice their frustration.

When you have government agencies that start writing laws and interpreting laws anyway they choose, attempting to make millions of law-abiding gun owners criminals it's time to be concerned.

When the DOJ has obviously become political weapon, it's time to be concerned.

I'm a rational easy-going person but something like this is very alarming.

I'm the same.
I'm a hard-working Proud American taxpayer who is Patriotic AF. I'm really just interested in my little quiet life, being left alone and leaving everyone else alone (until we meet on this forum! HAHAA!).

 

[thperez1972]

There were many threats made against Trump. FBI never pursued those threats. This guy that was killed, from all indications, seems a lot like the folks on this very forum, law-abiding, hardworking, god-fearing people. The man was spouting off as is his right. He didn't seem to have the ability to carry out those threats, and I agree, it was stupid to write those things, but it wasn't reason for him to die.

Although the articles could be inaccurate, all the articles I've read so far indicate he didn't die because he wrote some stuff. The articles say he died because agents shot hit after he threatened them by pointing a weapon at the agents.

We can certainly have a discussion as to how the FBI conducted the raid and if better decisions could have been made.
A led to B. B led to C. C led to E. E led to F. That does not mean A led to F. At C, there were 2 options, D and E. If D had been chosen, F may never occurred. Again, we can discuss if the FBI could have made better decisions that would likely have led to better results. But it's disingenuous to ignore all of the decisions made along the way and make the emotional statement that F was caused by A.

 

[Peacemaker]

Although the articles could be inaccurate, all the articles I've read so far indicate he didn't die because he wrote some stuff. The articles say he died because agents shot hit after he threatened them by pointing a weapon at the agents.

We can certainly have a discussion as to how the FBI conducted the raid and if better decisions could have been made.
A led to B. B led to C. C led to E. E led to F. That does not mean A led to F. At C, there were 2 options, D and E. If D had been chosen, F may never occurred. Again, we can discuss if the FBI could have made better decisions that would likely have led to better results. But it's disingenuous to ignore all of the decisions made along the way and make the emotional statement that F was caused by A.

I've said it all along, the fact that they went to his house to arrest him knowing he's old and 100% likely to have a weapon on his person in his home is absolutely what they wanted. They wanted to kill the man. It's plain and simple. There were absolutely many different ways they could have apprehended the man. OfCourse he's going to pull a gun or arm himself, he's a scared old man.

No one will ever make me believe the FBI didn't know what the ultimate outcome would be. They had all the intelligence they needed to know just who they were dealing with and just what would likely happen. They went there suited up.

You can lick their boots all you want. Anyone with half a brain can see what happened here.

 

[Peacemaker]

This is what I find troubling to me.
You have a black man being arrested, and will not cooperate, and in the struggle of resisting arrest dies and half the country erupts into chaos, cities burn, billions of dollars in damage and the cops are eventually sent to prison because of it.

Here you have this guy, who is white, elderly, law-abiding, homeowner, patriotic, church going, gun owner, outspoken political critic, killed in his own home by federal agents while being served an arrest warrant at 6am in the morning by 20+ highly trained, professional gunmen, and no one see's this as a problem.

 

[thperez1972]

I've said it all along, the fact that they went to his house to arrest him knowing he's old and 100% likely to have a weapon on his person in his home is absolutely what they wanted. They wanted to kill the man. It's plain and simple. There were absolutely many different ways they could have apprehended the man. OfCourse he's going to pull a gun or arm himself, he's a scared old man.

No one will ever make me believe the FBI didn't know what the ultimate outcome would be. They had all the intelligence they needed to know just who they were dealing with and just what would likely happen. They went there suited up.

You can lick their boots all you want. Anyone with half a brain can see what happened here.

Nobody is licking anyone's boots. I'm not advocating for the FBI. I agree that they could have made better decisions along the way that would have changed the outcome. And I agree, the FBI, as a whole, is not trustworthy. But the problem with the idea the FBI planned for this to happen is you are ignoring the fact the raid has to be conducted by agents. So by saying the FBI planned this execution, you're also saying that all of the agents were in on the plan and all of the agents are evil. The FBI being untrustworthy does not mean every agent is evil. The next questions are rhetorical. Have you ever killed someone? Have you ever shot someone? Have you ever pointed a weapon at someone and had to make the decision to pull the trigger or not? Those can produce some strong feeling. What you're alleging is 20+ highly trained agents are all devoid of feeling and were mentally capable of shooting and killing an unarmed man.

 

[Peacemaker]

Nobody is licking anyone's boots. I'm not advocating for the FBI. I agree that they could have made better decisions along the way that would have changed the outcome. And I agree, the FBI, as a whole, is not trustworthy. But the problem with the idea the FBI planned for this to happen is you are ignoring the fact the raid has to be conducted by agents. So by saying the FBI planned this execution, you're also saying that all of the agents were in on the plan and all of the agents are evil. The FBI being untrustworthy does not mean every agent is evil. The next questions are rhetorical. Have you ever killed someone? Have you ever shot someone? Have you ever pointed a weapon at someone and had to make the decision to pull the trigger or not? Those can produce some strong feeling. What you're alleging is 20+ highly trained agents are all devoid of feeling and were mentally capable of shooting and killing an unarmed man.

That's exactly what I'm alleging and I have every right to do so.

 

[thperez1972]

That's exactly what I'm alleging and I have every right to do so.

I agree, you have every right to do so. But others have every right to disagree with you. You asked who nobody sees this as a problem? Maybe they do see it as a problem, just a different problem than the one you see. He threatened to assassinate the president. I'm not sure that qualifies him for the law-abiding label. And after threatening to shoot the president, he pointed a weapon at FBI agents and forced the agents to make a decision. As I see it, the problem isn't that the FBI was willing to murder an unarmed innocent man because I do not believe every agent is. The problem is the list of decisions the FBI made along the way that put the agents in a position where they needed to make the decision to pull the trigger or not.

 

[GunRelated]

How can he point a weapon at them and be unarmed? I have no knowledge of this story other than the headline.

 

[Peacemaker]

I agree, you have every right to do so. But others have every right to disagree with you. You asked who nobody sees this as a problem? Maybe they do see it as a problem, just a different problem than the one you see. He threatened to assassinate the president. I'm not sure that qualifies him for the law-abiding label. And after threatening to shoot the president, he pointed a weapon at FBI agents and forced the agents to make a decision. As I see it, the problem isn't that the FBI was willing to murder an unarmed innocent man because I do not believe every agent is. The problem is the list of decisions the FBI made along the way that put the agents in a position where they needed to make the decision to pull the trigger or not.

It never bothered me if anyone disagrees with my opinion, it seems my opinion bothers some people that are likely to swallow whatever the federal government spoons out. He was law-abiding in as so far as he didn't have a criminal record. The FBI claims he pointed a weapon at them, where is the proof of that? Where is the body camera footage of the raid? Oh, that's right, the feds don't have to wear cameras. I guess they operate at a level that makes whatever they say the honest truth.

I understand some folks trying to hang onto the notion that these federal agencies are working in the best interest of the American people but it seems all to often they are being proven not to be.

I've said before he was wrong to make those kinds of threats, but it didn't warrant his death.

 

[thperez1972]

It never bothered me if anyone disagrees with my opinion, it seems my opinion bothers some people that are likely to swallow whatever the federal government spoons out.

I'm not likely to believe whatever the government spoons out. I've seen all of the letter agencies weaponized. Your opinion does not bother me. I just don't agree with it. I find it hard to believe that every agent in the FBI, much less the other letter agencies, are evil and are willing to kill unarmed innocent people.

He was law-abiding in as so far as he didn't have a criminal record. The FBI claims he pointed a weapon at them, where is the proof of that? Where is the body camera footage of the raid? Oh, that's right, the feds don't have to wear cameras. I guess they operate at a level that makes whatever they say the honest truth.

I understand some folks trying to hang onto the notion that these federal agencies are working in the best interest of the American people but it seems all to often they are being proven not to be.

I've said before he was wrong to make those kinds of threats, but it didn't warrant his death.

I agree with what you're saying up to the last line. He was killed because he pointed a gun at the agents.

 

[Peacemaker]

He was killed because he pointed a gun at the agents.

Where is the proof of that?

 

[thperez1972]

How can he point a weapon at them and be unarmed? I have no knowledge of this story other than the headline.

I don't believe he was unarmed. Peacemaker's take on the situation is every agent is evil and the plan all along was to kill this guy. But they didn't know the guy would point a gun at the agents to give them a cover story to shoot him. So the planning had to include shooting him even if he were unarmed.

 

[Peacemaker]

I don't believe he was unarmed. Peacemaker's take on the situation is every agent is evil and the plan all along was to kill this guy. But they didn't know the guy would point a gun at the agents to give them a cover story to shoot him. So the planning had to include shooting him even if he were unarmed.

HaHa.

 

[thperez1972]

Where is the proof of that?

There's no proof either way. I can't prove he pointed a guy at the agents. You cannot prove he did not. So at this point, each of us can only speculate. The difference is I don't believe every agent is evil. I believe the majority of the agents are hardworking good agents. Because it's not in a good person's nature to shoot and kill an unarmed man, I believe it's more likely than not the guy was armed and pointed a gun at the agents.

 

[Peacemaker]

I don't believe he was unarmed. Peacemaker's take on the situation is every agent is evil and the plan all along was to kill this guy. But they didn't know the guy would point a gun at the agents to give them a cover story to shoot him. So the planning had to include shooting him even if he were unarmed.

They damn well knew he had guns in his house. They damn well knew it wouldn't be a far stretch to make anyone believe he pointed a gun even if he didn't. They damn well know no one is going to dig to deep to find the truth no matter what.

I don't think every agent is evil but they damn well do cover each other no matter what happens.

 

[Peacemaker]

There's no proof either way. I can't prove he pointed a guy at the agents. You cannot prove he did not. So at this point, each of us can only speculate. The difference is I don't believe every agent is evil. I believe the majority of the agents are hardworking good agents. Because it's not in a good person's nature to shoot and kill an unarmed man, I believe it's more likely than not the guy was armed and pointed a gun at the agents.

Well you keep alleging that he pointed a gun as if there was conclusive proof.

I'll bet there were people there that wanted it to go another way, but it didn't, and they can live with that also. They seek to justify it just as you do.

Just for the record... I don't want to get shot for voicing a differing opinion! I'm law-abiding and I do own firearms. I do work every day and pay a good sum of taxes. I haven't threatened anyone, just so we're all clear, I don't have to believe everything my government tells me.

Please don't knock on my door at 6am with an arrest warrant.

Thanks in advance!

 

[thperez1972]

They damn well knew he had guns in his house. They damn well knew it wouldn't be a far stretch to make anyone believe he pointed a gun even if he didn't. They damn well know no one is going to dig to deep to find the truth no matter what.

Exactly. So every agent there would have to be willing to shoot an unarmed man. You say they are all evil and will shoot an unarmed man. I say they are not all evil so it's more likely he was pointing a gun at the agents.

We can disagree over this.

I don't think every agent is evil but they damn well do cover each other no matter what happens.

So you're saying that every agent there would be willing to go to prison for the other agent. Sorry to disappoint you but nope.

 

[thperez1972]

Because it's not in a good person's nature to shoot and kill an unarmed man, I believe it's more likely than not the guy was armed and pointed a gun at the agents.

We'll you keep alleging that he pointed a gun as if there was conclusive proof.

Reading is tough.