Georgia High School Shooting 4 Sept 2024

[cbbr]

So you're cool with a cop telling you "you didn't actually break the law but it was close enough so you're going to jail."

No, I think that it should be a crime to knowingly provide or allow anyone with known instability access to your firearms whether intentionally or through gross negligence.

 

[WilsonCombatant]

It gets clearer and clearer

 

[John_]

No, I think that it should be a crime to knowingly provide or allow anyone with known instability access to your firearms whether intentionally or through gross negligence.

Absolutely. From the information that is now available, the father enabled his 14 yo son to commit this heinous crime. If the boy doesn't have direct access to the rifle, it simply doesn't happen. Why his father didn't lock it up (in a safe) and supervise his son's access and usage is beyond me. A 14 yo teen who has recent history of instability and threats of violence. All daddy had to do was purchase a $300 gun safe/locker at Tractor Supply, and install it. Talk about asleep at the wheel as a parent! I have not read anything about his mother, where is she? Must be divorced or separated from the father.

A quick search yields: "His mother, Marcee, 43, has a lengthy rap sheet with drug and domestic violence arrests. And his father Colin, 54, allegedly bought his troubled son an AR-15 rifle for Christmas"

“There were nights where the mom would lock him and his sister out the house. And they would be banging on the back door, just screaming like ‘Mom! mom! mom!’ and crying. It was absolutely devastating,” a neighbor said.

 

[thperez1972]

No, I think that it should be a crime to knowingly provide or allow anyone with known instability access to your firearms whether intentionally or through gross negligence.

I agree. But the original article said he was arrested for "knowingly allowing his son to possess a weapon" when the law said Georgia does not allow minors to own guns. The original article, which led to my post, did not mention any instability. The current article at the link, at least the 3rd version, seems to indicate the father was arrested for something that is not covered by the law. "GBI Director Chris Hosey said at a news conference Thursday night that the charges against Colin Gray stem from 'knowingly allowing his son to possess a weapon.' Georgia law prohibits minors from possessing handguns, but there is no minimum age to possess a rifle or shotgun in Georgia."

Other articles say essentially the same thing.

"'His charges are directly connected with the actions of his son and allowing him to possess a weapon,' Hosey said."

But his jail records show the below charges, none of which has anything to do with allowing his son to possess a weapon. Being pro-2a, I'm for his arrest if he violated the law. But being pro-2a, I'm against an arrest because it's kinda close to a law and it make you feel good to do something.

14 Cruelty to Children-2nd Degree-Criminal Negligence/Cause Excessive Physical/Mental Pain
13 Cruelty to Children-2nd Degree-Criminal Negligence/Cause Excessive Physical/Mental Pain
12 Cruelty to Children-2nd Degree-Criminal Negligence/Cause Excessive Physical/Mental Pain
11 Cruelty to Children-2nd Degree-Criminal Negligence/Cause Excessive Physical/Mental Pain
10 Cruelty to Children-2nd Degree-Criminal Negligence/Cause Excessive Physical/Mental Pain
9 Cruelty to Children-2nd Degree-Criminal Negligence/Cause Excessive Physical/Mental Pain
8 Cruelty to Children-2nd Degree-Criminal Negligence/Cause Excessive Physical/Mental Pain
7 Cruelty to Children-2nd Degree-Criminal Negligence/Cause Excessive Physical/Mental Pain
6 Involuntary Manslaughter-Felony
5 Involuntary Manslaughter-Felony
4 Involuntary Manslaughter-Felony
3 Involuntary Manslaughter-Felony
2 Murder
1 Murder

 

[Mitch Dufour]

You are worrying me Perez. I am starting to agree with you every now and then.

 

[thperez1972]

Absolutely. From the information that is now available, the father enabled his 14 yo son to commit this heinous crime. If the boy doesn't have direct access to the rifle, it simply doesn't happen. Why his father didn't lock it up (in a safe) and supervise his son's access and usage is beyond me. A 14 yo teen who has recent history of instability and threats of violence. All daddy had to do was purchase a $300 gun safe/locker at Tractor Supply, and install it. Talk about asleep at the wheel as a parent! I have not read anything about his mother, where is she? Must be divorced or separated from the father.

Do you feel it's common sense to make it a criminal offense to not lock up your weapons if there are minors in the house?

A quick search yields: "His mother, Marcee, 43, has a lengthy rap sheet with drug and domestic violence arrests. And his father Colin, 54, allegedly bought his troubled son an AR-15 rifle for Christmas"

That is different than allowing his son to possess a weapon. That is covered by the law. Perhaps that is what the GBI meant, but didn't say, when they said the father allowed the son to possess a weapon. However, there is no such charge listed for the father.

“There were nights where the mom would lock him and his sister out the house. And they would be banging on the back door, just screaming like ‘Mom! mom! mom!’ and crying. It was absolutely devastating,” a neighbor said.

I believe the parents were going through a divorce and child protective services said the father would make the better parent. And the family courts gave the father primary custody to the father over the mother.

 

[John_]

Do you feel it's common sense to make it a criminal offense to not lock up your weapons if there are minors in the house?

I have to think on that one for a while. One could make an argument both ways I think. Frequently I have read or heard of children being killed or wounded by a pistol left out on a table. One toddler shoots the other, or themselves. Happens a couple times a year in NOLA. Some people are really careless handgun owners. But if all of your weapons are locked down, what happens when somebody breaks into your house at 0200 while you are sleeping? I myself sleep with a 40 under my pillow every night, but no children or minors here. All the rest locked down in my safe. If you have young children or teens living in your house, I'm leaning to locked down. Sooner or later they will find it/access it, and the consequences can be deadly really quick. Perhaps one of those locked box or cabinet? Don't they have them in which will open with your fingerprint? Like put your thumb on it and voila, unlocked?

 

[John_]

Do you feel it's common sense to make it a criminal offense to not lock up your weapons if there are minors in the house?

Perez, yes I think so. The risks with young children or minors in the household is simply too great. People should be held accountable in that situation. And for some the only way they will be responsible/accountable is to know they can be arrested and charged for failing to secure their weapon. I vote for it. Imagine the heartache when little Johnny shoots his 4 yo sister in the head and kills her BC mommy or daddy left their pistol on the table, or on the kitchen counter, or on the nightstand.

 

[GunRelated]

Perez, yes I think so. The risks with young children or minors in the household is simply too great. People should be held accountable in that situation. And for some the only way they will be responsible/accountable is to know they can be arrested and charged for failing to secure their weapon. I vote for it. Imagine the heartache when little Johnny shoots his 4 yo sister in the head and kills her BC mommy or daddy left their pistol on the table, or on the kitchen counter, or on the nightstand.

Yeah, because what better way to solve accountability problems than to pass the enforcement onto the government. People with opinions like this deserve to live in Australia or the UK, they do not deserve the US constitution.

 

[Gator 45/70]

These transmission people are some violent mf'ers, Look at how many mass shootings a transmission person have been involved in lately or at least the ones that are being reported.

 

[John_]

Yeah, because what better way to solve accountability problems than to pass the enforcement onto the government. People with opinions like this deserve to live in Australia or the UK, they do not deserve the US constitution.

You better go order some vape juice that you said one definitely cannot have delivered to a Louisiana address any more. How did you state that in your post 2 days ago, "100% false"? You seem to be real edgy, probably nicotine withdrawals.

 

[thperez1972]

I have to think on that one for a while. One could make an argument both ways I think. Frequently I have read or heard of children being killed or wounded by a pistol left out on a table. One toddler shoots the other, or themselves. Happens a couple times a year in NOLA. Some people are really careless handgun owners. But if all of your weapons are locked down, what happens when somebody breaks into your house at 0200 while you are sleeping? I myself sleep with a 40 under my pillow every night, but no children or minors here. All the rest locked down in my safe. If you have young children or teens living in your house, I'm leaning to locked down. Sooner or later they will find it/access it, and the consequences can be deadly really quick. Perhaps one of those locked box or cabinet? Don't they have them in which will open with your fingerprint? Like put your thumb on it and voila, unlocked?

Are you willing to bet that biometrics will have a 100% success rate? If so, you should use an iphone with a thumb scanner for a while.

You better go order some vape juice that you said one definitely cannot have delivered to a Louisiana address any more. How did you state that in your post 2 days ago, "100% false"? You seem to be real edgy, probably nicotine withdrawals.

Ad hominem is frequently used by people who are unable to refute the information as presented.

 

[John_]

Are you willing to bet that biometrics will have a 100% success rate? If so, you should use an iphone with a thumb scanner for a while.

Never had an i-phone, or an apple product. My cell is android. So I don't know how successful or reliable biometrics are.
You posed the question to me, so what is your opinion on the matter? Do you feel it's common sense to make it a criminal offense to not lock up your weapons if there are minors in the house?

My handgun is 100% reliable.....under my pillow.

 

[machinedrummer]

No, I think that it should be a crime to knowingly provide or allow anyone with known instability access to your firearms whether intentionally or through gross negligence.

If the guy had taken his dads car and run down 20 kids at recess would the dad be liable because he left access to the car keys. He’s only in this situation because it was a “assault rifle”. It’s a horrible tragedy but only tragedies that involve guns get this type of attention. Stabbing, burnings, beatings, etc never get attention. When jihadist cut the heads off of people I don’t hear we need knife control. The gubment wants us disarmed and this is a way to fool the sheep into agreeing with their end game. Nothing else. If they actually cared about gun deaths they would take the gloves off in the hot spots and truly strengthen the mental health issue and start calling evil and crazy people….evil and crazy and lock them up. Burn a structure down..do the time, pay the fine and when you get out you can still buy matches and gasoline but you will never be allowed to own a gun…hmmm…many more examples of just that. It’s all about taking guns..nothing else and that in my opinion is pure evil. It sickens me to think every time one of these tragedies happen they had foreknowledge that something wasn’t right and they probably celebrated the fact they have another excuse to go after the gun.

 

[thperez1972]

Never had an i-phone, or an apple product. My cell is android. So I don't know how successful or reliable biometrics are.
You posed the question to me, so what is your opinion on the matter? Do you feel it's common sense to make it a criminal offense to not lock up your weapons if there are minors in the house?

My handgun is 100% reliable.....under my pillow.

No, I do not. Every situation is different and making it a criminal offense in every situation sounds like giving up liberty for safety.

 

[cbbr]

Do you feel it's common sense to make it a criminal offense to not lock up your weapons if there are minors in the house?

I honestly don't believe that we are far apart here. If its a "normal" 14 yo who uses the rifle for target shooting/hunting, I have no issue at all with them possessing a firearm. Mine did. But this kid was far from normal.

But to drive the point home - to your question quoted above - yes, if the minors are too young to be responsible around your firearms (that can be different based on the minor's maturity) and absolutely yes if the kid has known issues.

When my kiddo's were young, I locked everything up. As they aged, less so. If any of them had the issues that are being reported about the Ga. shooter, I would still lock the guns up. I stated that I would apply a law in situations when a person "knowingly provides or allows anyone with known instability access" and I stand by it. Note that I wasn't specific to minors - some adults should also be precluded from having firearms.

 

[cbbr]

If the guy had taken his dads car and run down 20 kids at recess would the dad be liable because he left access to the car keys. He’s only in this situation because it was a “assault rifle”. It’s a horrible tragedy but only tragedies that involve guns get this type of attention. Stabbing, burnings, beatings, etc never get attention. When jihadist cut the heads off of people I don’t hear we need knife control. The gubment wants us disarmed and this is a way to fool the sheep into agreeing with their end game. Nothing else. If they actually cared about gun deaths they would take the gloves off in the hot spots and truly strengthen the mental health issue and start calling evil and crazy people….evil and crazy and lock them up. Burn a structure down..do the time, pay the fine and when you get out you can still buy matches and gasoline but you will never be allowed to own a gun…hmmm…many more examples of just that. It’s all about taking guns..nothing else and that in my opinion is pure evil. It sickens me to think every time one of these tragedies happen they had foreknowledge that something wasn’t right and they probably celebrated the fact they have another excuse to go after the gun.

My problem, if you read what I wrote, is that when a gun is used it fuels the political/media fire to take my guns too. People will vote irrationally based on emotion, especially when they are voting against something that they don't own. But most people need transportation and there is no lobby to take my car or gas away because of school shootings.

 

[IlivnDaBoot!]

Guns do not kill people.... the gun is only the tool that some person uses to carryout these acts...... .....................................drill sgt.

I REALLY wish people understood that.

 

[Magdump]

So far, all I’ve seen is reports of the father being “charged” and they talk about why. I don’t see where they ever truly addressed what laws were broken or what the DA actually indicted the man for. If the DA is seriously considering pursuing charges, I’m thinking they’ve got all that worked out or they’re getting it worked out. That sort of thing happens every day.

 

[cbbr]

So far, all I’ve seen is reports of the father being “charged” and they talk about why. I don’t see where they ever truly addressed what laws were broken or what the DA actually indicted the man for. If the DA is seriously considering pursuing charges, I’m thinking they’ve got all that worked out or they’re getting it worked out. That sort of thing happens every day.

I don't know much about criminal law, much less in Ga. But the basic theory is like a getaway driver participating in a felony crime when a death occurs during the course of the crime - they can be charged with felony murder even if the driver did nothing directly that led to the death.

So in this case, a father gave or allowed access through gross negligence a firearm/ammunition to a minor with known instability issues and the firearm was used to murder. The father didn't directly commit the murder, but he "drove the car." That's why 2nd degree - no intent. The law should include firearms like they do cars IMO. Without that we are one good lawyer away from this guy walking, and he apparently gave the gun to the kid directly.