Got Some Questions for Members...
- Thread starter Paul Gomez
- Start date
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Based on the research I've done (and I'm far from finished) I'm pretty well decided on Corbon JHP for the P380.
I''m trying to really quantify what I'm interpreting and understanding and I'll try to present a quick summary. (I'm not trying to steal the thread so any Mod can move this if they feel is should be moved.)
I had an interesting discussion with a Dakota Ammunition tech regarding SD ammunition for the P380. Obviously, we were only talking about their ammo but there are a number of generalities.
1. He said that they feel that 400 ftlbs of energy is the MINIMUM for effective SD ammunition and that you can't get 400 ftlbs out of SAAMI compliant .380ACP ammunition. Since they are a member of SAAMI, they must stay within the specifications. If there was a +P spec for .380ACP, which there isn't, they could get about 50% more ftlbs out of .380 but it would still not meet the 400 ftlb standard.
2. I've created a chart that I've done comparing the Hornady .380ACP to the Corbon. The actual data has come from the manufacturers specifications on their web site. The 'expected' data was derived using Hornaday's Ballistics Calculator.
3. The major difference is a reduction in the 'Expected fps" which leads to a reduction in Expected ftlbs in the Hornady ammunition. This is due to the Hornady specs usind a 4" babrrel vs the Corbon specs using a 2.5" barrel. The Kahr P380 has a 2.5" barrel.
4. In a separate discussion, the Dakota Ammo tech told me that the fps would decrease by about 25 fps per inch for shorter barrels.
Code:
Expected
Bullet Wt fps ftlbs BL fps Energy
Hornady Critical Defense 90 1000 200 4 960 184
Hornady XTP 90 1000 200 4 960 184
Corbon JHP 90 1050 220 2.5 1050 220
Corbon DPX 80 1050 196 2.5 1050 1965. We had another discussion on bullet types and he told me that DPX (all calibers) is designed to penetrate vehicle glass and metal without changing course and is designed for the LE market. The JHP is designed for the civilian SD market. (Forgive me for any paraphrasing, that's the gist of what I was told.
If anyone thinks that this type of analysis is valid, please let me know and give me a list of ammunition to add to the table.
Well the viability of one type of round over another is certainly a long one filled with misunderstandings, bias, and anecdotal evidence. I'll just shorthand it since my views are well known and can be found on plenty of other posts. If it (the bullet)won't penetrate 16 inches in a human. Don't carry it. Momentum determines what happens after a bullet strikes a person not foot pounds. Foot pounds is a meaningless ruler to by which to measure stopping power. Most handgun rounds that are HP won't expand on people.
Dave
Dave
Dave, I haven't gone back yet to review your posts. I will do so in order to understand your views. I agree with you that selection of SD ammo is not a science. It is truly a case of "For every opinon, there is an equal and opposite opinion". There are other well known expressions that restate this in many ways.
The tech I spoke with was very clear in his opinion that .380ACP was not a good choice for SD but, if it was a choice of .380 or nothing, he wouldn't opt for nothing.
I'll sort of go back on topic here.
I'm new to all of this. Since last April when I made the decision to CC, have gotten my CHP, selected and purchased equipment, and learned that I couldn't shoot as well as I thought I would be able to. I've been trying my best to derive the best way to select the equipment for me and to get that equipment. The last time I carried a gun on a daily basis was in 1963 and I can assure you that the intervening 46 years have done nothing to improve my physical capabilities. Not only was that in the last century but the M1 Garand was the Army standard. Handguns were not handsguns, so we used one hand -not two.
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I've learned that there is a large industry of professionals who derive their livelihood from the design and building and sale of guns, ammunition, and all of the supporting equipment. I believe that most these people, just as those in other industries, are doing the best job that they can, within their own capabiities and skill sets to produce the very best equipnment that they can. There is also a large community of skilled and knowledgable amateurs who contribute to the knowledge base. There are those who are altruistic ansd those who have axes to grind. I believe that what many people, myself included, try to do is to separate the information sources in an attempt to find our own perfect solution.
It would really be nice if there was an artificial intelligence computer system which asked you a myriad of questions about your CC needs and skills, got you to answer honestly, put you in a simulator to measure your physical and motor skills, etc. and then spit out a list of the best choices of equipment for you. But that doesn't exist. In reality, if it did, it would just provide a starting point and our own prejudices and egos would still come into play.
So I'll continue my quest for the Holy Grail of CC equipment from weapon selection to the color, size and pattern of the shirts I buy. Realizing that there are other new people who are going through the same difficulties of choices that I am, I'll make whatever I learn available to others, while clearly identifyng the source so that they can use or ignore it as they choose.
One last thought. Whatever equipment, training and practice I choose, I really hope that they work if I ever need to use them - and I hope that situation doesn't present itself to me where I need to.
The tech I spoke with was very clear in his opinion that .380ACP was not a good choice for SD but, if it was a choice of .380 or nothing, he wouldn't opt for nothing.
I'll sort of go back on topic here.
I'm new to all of this. Since last April when I made the decision to CC, have gotten my CHP, selected and purchased equipment, and learned that I couldn't shoot as well as I thought I would be able to. I've been trying my best to derive the best way to select the equipment for me and to get that equipment. The last time I carried a gun on a daily basis was in 1963 and I can assure you that the intervening 46 years have done nothing to improve my physical capabilities. Not only was that in the last century but the M1 Garand was the Army standard. Handguns were not handsguns, so we used one hand -not two.
. I've learned that there is a large industry of professionals who derive their livelihood from the design and building and sale of guns, ammunition, and all of the supporting equipment. I believe that most these people, just as those in other industries, are doing the best job that they can, within their own capabiities and skill sets to produce the very best equipnment that they can. There is also a large community of skilled and knowledgable amateurs who contribute to the knowledge base. There are those who are altruistic ansd those who have axes to grind. I believe that what many people, myself included, try to do is to separate the information sources in an attempt to find our own perfect solution.
It would really be nice if there was an artificial intelligence computer system which asked you a myriad of questions about your CC needs and skills, got you to answer honestly, put you in a simulator to measure your physical and motor skills, etc. and then spit out a list of the best choices of equipment for you. But that doesn't exist. In reality, if it did, it would just provide a starting point and our own prejudices and egos would still come into play.
So I'll continue my quest for the Holy Grail of CC equipment from weapon selection to the color, size and pattern of the shirts I buy. Realizing that there are other new people who are going through the same difficulties of choices that I am, I'll make whatever I learn available to others, while clearly identifyng the source so that they can use or ignore it as they choose.
One last thought. Whatever equipment, training and practice I choose, I really hope that they work if I ever need to use them - and I hope that situation doesn't present itself to me where I need to.
70116, What concerns me is that there isn't much energy to spare with .380. I don't want to waste any of that energy by imparting it to the wall behind my target. I want all of that energy dumped into the target. The only advantage of the bullet exiting is that it leaves a place for blood to leak from. This might be upsetting to the perp as he is running away, as well as leaving the police a better blood trail, just as in deer hunting.
OK gentlemen,
I don't want to hijack Paul's thread so I'll start a new one later today.
George
i'll probably get yelled at for this, but i pocket carry when i cc. i am wanting to get a somewhat larger pistol that will need to be holstered inn the future for cc purposes. at that point, comfort, good retention yet still providing quick access, and single mag pouch.
I don't ccw and there are a lot of reasons, one is due to an IWB holster looks awkward on me. When I OC, I wear this kind of rig from Tucker Gunleather. Yeah you will spend about 350 for the set.
very good looking set.
YOU DESERVE TO GET YELLED AT.
No good for your equipment and unsafe for you. I won't enumerate the reasons.
Why not start a new thread, tell us what you're pocket cc'ing and what you want to move up to. I'm certain you'll get a lot of feedback.
No pocket holster?
no. i know its just wrong, but i have't gotten arround to getting one.
