Gun Nutz - A Vertical Foregrip?

[James Cannon]

I thought some people might appreciate my sadistic humor here.

So in another thread, a user posts a pic of the Gun Nutz ( www.gun-nutz.com )

Guy replies to the pic post with

Do those tac balls constitute a vertical foregrip, is that then an SBR?

I have a letter in with the tech branch on just this very thing.

Mainly I wanted to troll the ATF by sending them a pic of a nutsack.

This was initially started as a joke between a buddy of mine over on Zombie Squad. We were BS'ing back and forth one day, and got rolling about it and I eventually claimed I'd send that **** in. I backed up my claim:

Original thread on ZS: http://zombiehunters.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=110&t=75908
Copy of letter on Google Docs: https://docs.google.com/viewer?a=v&...lNC00M2JlLTgzNjQtM2UwMjIwZjA0YTNl&hl=en&pli=1

Copy of the text (sans pics, and with my fake user name added in place of my real name and contact info)

February 2, 2011

Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms, and Explosives
Firearms Technology Branch
244 Needy Road
Martinsburg, West Virginia 25405 USA

Dear Sir or Madam,

I have interest in the purchase of a new item that has come to my attention. It is an accessory to my Smith & Wesson manufactured M&P 9 model handgun which includes a picatinny style rail molded into the frame beneath the barrel. Such rails are commonly used for the attachment of laser sights, illumination devices, and other such aides.

The accessory I came across is titled “Gun-Nutz” and is marketed by Gun-Nutz via their website http://www.gun-nutz.com/ which is intended to be mounted to picatinny rails, such as on the pistol I own, as previously described. Please refer to the picture attached below, from their website.

I wish to get a ruling on whether such a device could be interpreted as a vertical forward grip which certainly is forbidden on handguns such as mine. I am of the understanding that the Gun Control Act of 1968, the National Firearms Act of 1934 and possibly subsequent rulings, interpretations, and legislation could render such accessories forbidden on handguns.

Could the BATFE please respond with a ruling on whether or not this is a legal item to attach to my pistol in described location, as illustrated below, both with the product individually, and as installed on a firearm similar to my own?

Sincerely,

James Cannon

In closing, I'd appreciate your prayers for any dog I may own in the future, as I am sure it will be shot as soon as the ATF finds out I've picked up a dog.

 

[goteron]

I imagine it will be a VFG and illegal, otherwise it would set a precedence that hinged grips are OK

 

[James Cannon]

I sent it off February 2, with no reply. I called the office two days ago, and they couldn't find a record of my inquiry at all. The guy was very nice and thorough in trying to track it down in the database but the only entry from Lafayette, LA was from Broken Arrow (Custom Gun Works)

So I sent the letter again the other day. They should have it by now, but it not, they'll have it Monday I'm sure. Then we'll see how long it takes.

I'm betting someone opened it, laughed, maybe posted it on the break room wall, and it got trashed later. lol. This time I put it to the Attn: of the gentleman (First name Guy) I spoke to on the phone, so hopefully it gets a response.

I can't see this being anything less than hilarious to have the ATF tell me if it's ok to put my nutz on my gun, or that I can't do what I want with my nutz.

 

[Emperor]

They may just be arrogant enough to tell you; you can't!

 

[Nolacopusmc]

Thanks for wasting their time while those of us who are not douchebags patiently wait for our NFA items to be approved.

**** like this is why I shake my head at people. You really could have spent that time doing something productive.

It's a shame.

 

[Renegade]

You just keep your nutz off my gun and we're cool.

 

[Emperor]

Hang on folks! This may get ugly!

 

[Nolacopusmc]

Not to mention you are a few months late.....

http://www.bayoushooter.com/forums/...ical-Balls...-you-need-dem!&highlight=bayonet


What kind of dog do you have? I want to write a letter to the ATF to notify them so they can prepare when they deliver their response in person.

 

[Renegade]

Methinks NOLA's just jealous cuz his nutz aren't as big. I'm going to market a picatinny-mounted penis so we can have pissing contests on the firing line!

 

[Nolacopusmc]

Methinks NOLA's just jealous cuz his nutz aren't as big. I'm going to market a picatinny-mounted penis so we can have pissing contests on the firing line!

Anytime you want to come on over and challenge me, feel free. I will appreciate the portability of your nutz as I hang them from my rearview mirror.

 

[Renegade]

They are not very portable, and would rip your mirror right off your windshield.

 

[Nolacopusmc]

They are not very portable, and would rip your mirror right off your windshield.

Gotcha. i just figured since they fit in your wife's purse my mirror could handle it......

 

[Leadslugga]

Hate to break this to you, but an opinion given by an administrative agency is not binding. An agent can tell you one thing and then they can later decide that they changed their mind. You can't rely on an opinion from them. I forget the actual case on this, but it is true. It only become binding when there is an actual hearing and adjudication on the matter.

It is ********, but that's how it is. Because otherwise you could have agency employees giving different/inconsistent advice, and the court decided that was the worse of the two.

Administrative law is horseshit.

 

[rockmup]

Thanks for wasting their time while those of us who are not douchebags patiently wait for our NFA items to be approved.

**** like this is why I shake my head at people. You really could have spent that time doing something productive.

It's a shame.

While I understand your frustration, his letter goes to the Tech Dept. Not to examiners that handle F4's-1's etc.
Same building though

 

[Nolacopusmc]

While I understand your frustration, his letter goes to the Tech Dept. Not to examiners that handle F4's-1's etc.
Same building though

Your right, but you get my point. It is asinine and makes gun owners look like bump-firing asshats. Plus it is a waste of my tax dollars. i would much rather them be training at the range on Chihuahua targets. ;

 

[Nolacopusmc]

Hate to break this to you, but an opinion given by an administrative agency is not binding. An agent can tell you one thing and then they can later decide that they changed their mind. You can't rely on an opinion from them. I forget the actual case on this, but it is true. It only become binding when there is an actual hearing and adjudication on the matter.

It is ********, but that's how it is. Because otherwise you could have agency employees giving different/inconsistent advice, and the court decided that was the worse of the two.

Administrative law is horseshit.

Couple of things.

1. BATFE is a regulatory agency...they make regulations.

2. Your post is contradictory. yes their opinons are binding, but onlyuntil they change their mind. If you think they are not, cut that barrel and handle off your crackbarrel and mount a 40mm launcher with HE rounds on it and bring it to the local ATF office and ask for a photo op with the SAIC.


But I agree 100% that it is ******** either way.

 

[Renegade]

Gotcha. i just figured since they fit in your wife's purse my mirror could handle it...

You haven't seen my wife's purse!!!

 

[Nolacopusmc]

You haven't seen my wife's purse!!!

LOL....You win!

 

[Bayoupiper]

Would it be a vertical grip or an erect fore grip?





.

 

[James Cannon]

Hate to break this to you, but an opinion given by an administrative agency is not binding. An agent can tell you one thing and then they can later decide that they changed their mind. You can't rely on an opinion from them. I forget the actual case on this, but it is true. It only become binding when there is an actual hearing and adjudication on the matter.

It is ********, but that's how it is. Because otherwise you could have agency employees giving different/inconsistent advice, and the court decided that was the worse of the two.

Administrative law is horseshit.

It's for the lulz, man, don't take it so seriously.