Help with AR-15!

[Mirror]

So I am looking into buying or building my first AR-15, and I hope to eventually use it for competition. I have very little experience with firing the AR-15, but I have basic working knowledge of the rifle that I have gained through numerous visits to gun stores around town and lessons in ROTC. What would be the better course of action for me, buy an entry level rifle such as a Bushmaster and get used to the rifle's firing style and the .223 round, buying new parts as I go, or forego buying a rifle at all and just build a rifle myself? Also, if I was to build a rifle, what are some good parts that people know work well for their cost? Should I start with a stripped lower receiver or a fully built RRA lower? Thank you in advance for any help you can give me.

-Mirror

 

[whbonney26]

I say build your rifle if you have a few simple tools or can get them. There are so many different opinions on parts. I like RRA and I also like DPMS. I just finished a complete Spikes Tactical build. There are lots of different companies that make great parts. I have even built a few of the kits from Model1Sales.com. All have been good rifles.

Building the rifle will give you an understanding of how your rifle works and is also great fun.

 

[kengel2]

Building is always good, however if you want to buy one let me know. I may have one or two I could sell. And if you give me a couple weeks Ill let you shoot one.

If you choose to build, Essential Arms lowers have been great for me. I think there were some at the slidell gunshow for like 80 bucks.

Lowers are pretty much the same, upper receivers are pretty much the same. Barrels and components used to piece the rifles together are where you need to pick and choose particular components that you want.

 

[jmcrawf1]

My advice is to make friends with some people here on BS and plenty of people will let you shoot theirs. Shoot as many different types as you can and it will help the decision making process.

Building is the cheaper/better option IMO because you get the options you want (from shooting and finding out) but not at the premium price of a built rifle.

Take a base model $900 bushmaster, that rifle could be built with different name brand parts to the same specs for ~$650-$700.

 

[themcfarland]

Although I personally built mine with help, I suggest you look around on ar15.com and read,read, read..

Ar15's are really all about the same, except the upper top few and of course the lower make such as hesse.

If you want a practical price with dead nuts reliability then get one from one of the sponsors on the board... they have a reason to make it work when they sell it.

If I was a first time buyer with little knowledge and only had the time that I have right now, I would buy a fully built gun in the length that I wanted.. I would get a flatop since I can add scopes and irons and if I want a carry handle I can add it, but its real hard to take a rifle with a carry handle and make it a flattop.

dont pay much attention to the length of the gas system, to a first time buyer, it means very little unless you like research and eeking out the highest percentage out of everything.. then any of the names that are carried by our sponsors with work for you..

In My opinion, there isnt any difference from rock river to essential to stag or dpms.

I have my personal preference but that is from biased experiences not related to your case.

the length of barrel DOES make a difference if your carrying it all day or are a small framed guy..

the things to NOT short change yourself on is, a good set of iron sights, and a decent scope of your budget.. a scope is only as good as its mount so include that in the price..

ammo is what is costly if you want to learn to shoot your new gun..

I personally suggest you learn to reload, Now having said that... it is perfectly OK to shoot steel cased ammo such as wolf in your gun...

it is cheaper, and gets you shooting.. If you can afford brass get it, but it isnt an absolute..

Some folks will say but steel does this or does that, the worst it can do is tear up a 15 dollar extractor... thats it... it doesnt take long to save 15 bucks shooting cheaper ammo..


good luck

 

[dzelenka]

You mentioned that you may want to shoot competitions. If so, the you might start by figuring out the type of competition and what requirements there are for a rifle to shoot it.

 

[SpeedRacer]

I'd suggest buying a complete upper and a complete lower. You save almost $100 in federal taxes just for slapping two pieces together.

Don't get overwhelmed by all the options and accessories out there. I would recommend buying a basic AR first, and then decide what upgrades you need as you go. I did the opposite and went for "pimped out" off the bat. I ended up with a heavy rifle that did all sorts of things I'd NEVER need it to do. All I accomplished was losing money when I sold off the fancy parts to turn it into a simple rifle.

Just my opinion, but I think the best value in the AR world is BCM (bravocompanyusa.com). It's top notch stuff at a very affordable price, with first class customer service. They have tons of complete upper setups to choose from. Slap it on a lower and you can easily have a top shelf rifle for ~$800-900.

Just remember...you can always change/upgrade your AR, and it WON'T be your last one. So don't go insane thinking about what to buy.

 

[Sin-ster]

Although I personally built mine with help, I suggest you look around on ar15.com and read,read, read..

Ar15's are really all about the same, except the upper top few and of course the lower make such as hesse.

If you want a practical price with dead nuts reliability then get one from one of the sponsors on the board... they have a reason to make it work when they sell it.

If I was a first time buyer with little knowledge and only had the time that I have right now, I would buy a fully built gun in the length that I wanted.. I would get a flatop since I can add scopes and irons and if I want a carry handle I can add it, but its real hard to take a rifle with a carry handle and make it a flattop.

dont pay much attention to the length of the gas system, to a first time buyer, it means very little unless you like research and eeking out the highest percentage out of everything.. then any of the names that are carried by our sponsors with work for you..

In My opinion, there isnt any difference from rock river to essential to stag or dpms.

I have my personal preference but that is from biased experiences not related to your case.

the length of barrel DOES make a difference if your carrying it all day or are a small framed guy..

the things to NOT short change yourself on is, a good set of iron sights, and a decent scope of your budget.. a scope is only as good as its mount so include that in the price..

ammo is what is costly if you want to learn to shoot your new gun..

I personally suggest you learn to reload, Now having said that... it is perfectly OK to shoot steel cased ammo such as wolf in your gun...

it is cheaper, and gets you shooting.. If you can afford brass get it, but it isnt an absolute..

Some folks will say but steel does this or does that, the worst it can do is tear up a 15 dollar extractor... thats it... it doesnt take long to save 15 bucks shooting cheaper ammo..


good luck

Very solid advice, and I couldn't agree more on 99.9% of the information here. The majority of the .1% is speculation anyhow.

Some additions-- RR, Stag, DPMS, Essential are all about the same IMO as well. However, there are a handful of manufacturers a notch above them, and a few of ill repute down below. Pick any from this list and you've got a good AR to start out your experience, and won't be disappointed. Any issues, and these companies all have solid customer service.

Steel cased stuff, in and of itself, is fine. Harder on the extractor, as noted, as well as the bolt face-- but that's another cheap replacement, and you should have at least one back-up anyway. The problem I find with the steel cased stuff is that it's poorly manufactured, in terms of QC and performance. Primer issues, excessively dirty, inconsistent bullet specs/seating/etc., and so on and so forth. These issues on there own can be troublesome, but can be magnified with steel cased stuff. That's not to say all brass cased ammo is inherently better-- certainly not the case. However, as the price of the "best" brass cased is only slightly higher than that of the "worst", spending the extra few pennies becomes a no brainer.

I'd say the OPs best decision was to ask the question. The next smart step would be to put in the research and figure out exactly what direction he wants to go.

 

[Mirror]

Thank you all for your help. I'm planning on going to the gun show at Lamar-Dixon tomorrow morning. I hope to find a good stripped or fully built lower to begin with. I have decided that barring the discovery of a magnificent deal on a complete rifle, I will build my own. I plan to take all of your help into direct account, but I had a couple of quick questions that I need to get an answer for. You mentioned barrel length being a big factor, especially if I am a small framed guy. I happen to be 6 feet tall, maybe 6'1" at the most, and around 155 lbs. Fairly slim-ish. Would I be looking at trying to use a mid-length barrel, or what? As in, what would be the best balance of accuracy and mobility for me? I just would like an estimate. Next question, I found a whole Bushmaster Carbon-15 rifle for sale newish from Cabela's and I don't know how difficult the gun would be to control because of it's light weight. Is anyone familiar with the Carbon-15 rifle? Final question, what are some of the brands to stay AWAY from? Thanks!

 

[Sin-ster]

I'm 6', 150 myself-- I have both a carbine and a mid-length.

Those terms refer to the length of your gas system, not the barrel (although obviously, certain barrel lengths restrict you to certain gas systems). Barrel length is most important in terms of accuracy, and also plays a role (in conjunction with barrel twist) as to what projectiles your rifle will stabilize, and fire with the most accuracy.

Confused yet?

Most AR's are 16" in length, as this is the legal figure before one has to worry about tax stamps for a short barreled rifle (SBR). They also come in 14.5" configurations with a pinned and welded muzzle break to make them compliant with the 16" rule. If maneuverability and weight are your primary concerns, your best bet is to stick with this range. It's an intermediate barrel length, and provides excellent accuracy out to any distance you'll be shooting.

The thing you should consider is barrel profile, which references the outer contour of the barrel and thereby the weight. There are heavy barrels, which cool faster and I believe are thought to be more accurate. There are M4 profile barrels, designed to be carried in combat (hence, lighter) and have a cut for an M203. There are government profile barrels which IIRC are similar to M4, but without the M203 cut. There are the popular "pencil" barrels, which are the thinnest and lightest of all.

Unlike a .357 Featherweight, you're not going to make an AR too light to control the recoil. The 5.56 is a pussycat in terms of a combat rifle round, and as I've said before (in other threads, at least) my girlfriend enjoys shooting them. She's a lot smaller than us. While you can alter your felt recoil (won't go into all the details) through certain decisions, you will never make the gun uncontrollable. TBH, unless you're using a select fire weapon or shooting in matches (where split seconds count), the recoil of your AR should be your last concern.

I'm not familiar with the Carbon, nor can I recall a comprehensive list of the brands to avoid at this particular hour. There are surely folks on here with that knowledge-- hopefully they'll speak up. My theory on this subject is simple-- I may call upon this weapon to save my life someday. If I'd never heard of the company and didn't find anything but good reviews online, I'd skip it. While you DO get what you pay for, in terms of a naked upper or lower receiver, there are many instances in which you're just paying for a name. That said, the cost difference isn't terribly significant and you can save yourself a lot of headache by going with someone with a proven record.

Given, when you're building from scratch, saving every dollar might be one of the biggest factors in your decision. In that case, do your research before you buy, and you should be good to go. Good luck in your shopping tomorrow!

 

[dzelenka]

Because there are so many configurations that an AR can be built to, you should really figure out what you are going to do with it before you buy anything more than a stripped lower. If you don't answer the question of your particular use, you will end up buying another (not that having two is a bad thing). A lot of the advice you have received, while good, is geared to the acquisition of a generic AR that would be most suitable for plinking. Just make sure that is what you are looking for.

 

[Mirror]

Thank you both, and by the way dzelenka, I sent you an email, but unfortunately I never heard back from you about the sunday thing. As I have said previously, I don't know the rules or even what configuration any of the local events are and have no idea how to find out besides reading though the "Competition" tab of the forum.

 

[Sin-ster]

Because there are so many configurations that an AR can be built to, you should really figure out what you are going to do with it before you buy anything more than a stripped lower. If you don't answer the question of your particular use, you will end up buying another (not that having two is a bad thing). A lot of the advice you have received, while good, is geared to the acquisition of a generic AR that would be most suitable for plinking. Just make sure that is what you are looking for.

Very well put, and sound advice. If you want a race gun, an HP gun, a hunting/Varminting AR or the best combat rifle money can buy, there's lots of helpful suggestions that have been made here that will not apply. As Dan indicates, most of this advice is going to land you with an all purpose AR best suited for plinking. That's not to say it wouldn't do the job of home defense or light combat duty, but for that express purpose, there are better choices out there.

 

[dzelenka]

Thank you both, and by the way dzelenka, I sent you an email, but unfortunately I never heard back from you about the sunday thing. As I have said previously, I don't know the rules or even what configuration any of the local events are and have no idea how to find out besides reading though the "Competition" tab of the forum.

I apologize but I did not see it. Pm me your email address
and I will get back to you.

 

[Mirror]

I'm looking for more of a learning platform that can serve as a race gun later on. Today I am likely only to buy a stripped lower so I can start building it myself. Everything important, like barrel length, twist, weight, BCG, trigger, can probably wait until I know more about exactly what I want.