My co-worker wont shut up about how sweet his BHP is. I have heard lots about these little gems over the years and wanted some input. I have not had the fortune to finger one, nor fire one. Are they all they are cracked up to be?
Hi Powers.....School Me
- Thread starter local2fed
- Start date
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They were half designed by John M. Browning. The first widely available 9mm luger double stack semi auto pistol. Have a rep for giving one hammer bite in the original design. Good Single action only trigger. Comfortable in the grip to most. The linkless barrel tilt system was supposedly considered superior to the linked system by JM Browning himself. I agree with that assessment in my opinion.
Dave
Dave
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What do you want it to do?
If you're looking for a fine piece of nostalgia, or a range shooter, they are wonderful pistols.
If you are looking for a serious defensive weapon, there are any number of current offerings that make more sense. Primarily, because the stock safety latch on a P-35 is almost impossible to use quickly. Yes, some of the later Portugese-built examples fixed that... but a REAL Hi-Power man has a Belgium-made pistol...
.
Other than 2 Canadians... One sloted for the shoulder stock, and one too minty and too cheap years ago...
Mine all are. One came with an Amby-adequately sized safety, and others... Can be added.
Helll, I KNOW you did it to a 'few' 1911's over the years
I'd rock a Hi Power just like a glock... You just gotta make a buncha mods....
(One's on my nightstand right now matter of fact.)
The safety ain't as bad as people will claim. I got a Belgian 72C and it has the smaller nub of a safety, but it's caused not one problem in any form of shooting I've done. I currently use it for production class in USPSA, even though I eventually want to switch to a Glock for carry/competition... but only because I want to preserve my BHP more. I've never shot a handgun I liked more than my BHP.
Only thing I did was remove the magazine "safety" which means the gun can fire even if there is no magazine inserted and the mags drop free a little easier. The magazine link was prone to collecting dust and oil which would gum it up a bit and quickly cause the trigger pull to get a little creepy/gritty. Once removed, the trigger pull was lessened slightly, though not dangerously so in a SD gun, and I've never again had a gritty feeling trigger, it's smooth as a ducks ass underwater.
Only thing I did was remove the magazine "safety" which means the gun can fire even if there is no magazine inserted and the mags drop free a little easier. The magazine link was prone to collecting dust and oil which would gum it up a bit and quickly cause the trigger pull to get a little creepy/gritty. Once removed, the trigger pull was lessened slightly, though not dangerously so in a SD gun, and I've never again had a gritty feeling trigger, it's smooth as a ducks ass underwater.
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I like the Mark IIIs.
They've put good, visible sights dovetailed to the slide. The ones I've fired had no issues feeding any factory round loaded in them. The safety is greatly improved over the older small one.
Best of all, it retains everything that made the old ones such great guns. The grip geometry seems to fit almost anyone's hand. Great grip angle. The gun just points naturally for me.
They've put good, visible sights dovetailed to the slide. The ones I've fired had no issues feeding any factory round loaded in them. The safety is greatly improved over the older small one.
Best of all, it retains everything that made the old ones such great guns. The grip geometry seems to fit almost anyone's hand. Great grip angle. The gun just points naturally for me.
Hardballing
Well-Known Member
Been on the look out for awhile now for a beater grade Inglis, slotted, to try and resurect the old PDW concept with the stock. Not sure of the utility of the thing, but just think they look cooler than penguin poop.
One thing to look for, in used or older HP's is frame cracks. Particularly if you are looking at collector varieties or mil surp models. Lots of these were carried and used for decades and have had LOTS of ammo put thru them so caveat emptor on that issue.
Now...with regards to Belgians and especially T series pistols. Ohh. La. La.
Seriously, they are very natural pointing blasters and today there seems to be a variety of smiths who are doing extended safety's for them (Novak, Laughridge, etc. and selling those parts for local worker bees as well). The mags are stronger than the smell from an Arab's armpit. Beware spur hammers and high hand holds. It WILL bite you imo (or maybe I just have fat hands, don't know) but for me the cone style hammers seemed to work best.
Hell Dood, there has to be someone on the site who'll let you shoot theirs. And whether you want carry grade, collector material, or a range toy, the pricing for many except the rarer collector variants seems to be under (could be WAY under) the $1000.00 mark for LNIB examples so go for it. You might even like em. If you want to view gun porn of collector examples try:
www.simpsonltd.com
www.collectorsfirearms.com
Happy Blasting Brah!
One thing to look for, in used or older HP's is frame cracks. Particularly if you are looking at collector varieties or mil surp models. Lots of these were carried and used for decades and have had LOTS of ammo put thru them so caveat emptor on that issue.
Now...with regards to Belgians and especially T series pistols. Ohh. La. La.
Seriously, they are very natural pointing blasters and today there seems to be a variety of smiths who are doing extended safety's for them (Novak, Laughridge, etc. and selling those parts for local worker bees as well). The mags are stronger than the smell from an Arab's armpit. Beware spur hammers and high hand holds. It WILL bite you imo (or maybe I just have fat hands, don't know) but for me the cone style hammers seemed to work best.
Hell Dood, there has to be someone on the site who'll let you shoot theirs. And whether you want carry grade, collector material, or a range toy, the pricing for many except the rarer collector variants seems to be under (could be WAY under) the $1000.00 mark for LNIB examples so go for it. You might even like em. If you want to view gun porn of collector examples try:
www.simpsonltd.com
www.collectorsfirearms.com
Happy Blasting Brah!
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Hardballing
Well-Known Member
IIRC, Sadaam Hussein was always popping one of these off into the air as well.
And there are LOTS of countries who adopted this model. Hell, the Brits used it from the 1940's through the 90's, but the list of who adopted is about as prolific as either Lugers, Glocks, or Uzi's.
And that's a LOT of countries.
And there are LOTS of countries who adopted this model. Hell, the Brits used it from the 1940's through the 90's, but the list of who adopted is about as prolific as either Lugers, Glocks, or Uzi's.
And that's a LOT of countries.
wat?
Hardballing
Well-Known Member
Check your history books Compadre.
The Pistole Parrabellum 08 (Germany's designation, Pistol for War 1908) was used worldwide from it's inception/development around 1900. As first "practical" autoloader (defined as one that worked reliably as opposed to 1896 Mausers, Astra's, Steyr/Roth's, etc.) it was either adopted or accepted as standard substitute by:
Germany
Switzerland
Portugal
Spain
Bulgaria
Austria
Romania
Brazil (IIRC, over 12 SA countries "adopted" it or it was in common usage)
Argentina
Netherlands
Norway
Turkey
China (many different provinces/districts)
and LOTS, and LOTS of other countries as well (don't have the full list and my memory aint what it used to be). Georg Luger had so much business in 1911 that he didn't try to hard to compete for the US trials. The retooling required for him to manufacture in .45 acp or any other caliber except .30 Luger or 9mm para was too great to bear just to get "one country's contract" (his words). In point of fact, those submitted for testing by the US were all chambered in .30 Luger for just that reason. And they did okay too if you look at the reports.
Even more usage if you factor in private purchases (which MOST militaries required their officers to do). These things turn up EVERYWHERE at the turn of the century and up through WW2.
As a side note as a way of ending thread drift/theft
, don't believe the current gunrag/gunshop hype you read about Luger's being unreliable either. If you have one stashed away, a simple switch from 115 grain FMJ (most common here) to 124 grain FMJ (most common Euro loadings) cures most Luger ills almost immediately. Holler at me off line if you want further info or go to:www.lugerforum.com
or...
check your history books.
Yep, Lugers WERE the Glocks of THEIR day. And another unrecognized mega used early autoloader was the 1900/1903/1908 Browning/Colt design that also turns up almost everywhere on the globe in one form or another. But these are both for another thread perhaps, but you did ask.
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Accepted as a 'private purchases' I accept. hell, WW1 and 2 had ALL KINDS of junk being accepted on that or the 'Sub. Standard'
(To say nothing of the tradition as you said which had Churchill toting a Broomhandle)
That's ALOT different than being adopted as general issue like Hi Powers etc.
(And that's not that many countries)
Lugers took too much skilled hand work, and, while I'm not calling them fenickey... didn't hold up to the mud of the trenches well.
(To say nothing of the tradition as you said which had Churchill toting a Broomhandle)
That's ALOT different than being adopted as general issue like Hi Powers etc.
(And that's not that many countries)
Lugers took too much skilled hand work, and, while I'm not calling them fenickey... didn't hold up to the mud of the trenches well.
Hardballing
Well-Known Member
Do your homework man, don't just repeat what you think you read.
Why do you think the Germans accepted Luger AGAIN after WW1 if it "didn't hold up to the mud of the trenches"? Were the Germans stupid as to weaponry? (they did tend to over engineer their products but as for reliability, well, the history is the history). Perhaps the baddest mamba jamba's of WW1 were the Strosstruppen (trench raiders) who chose the Luger as their weapon of CHOICE. Hardly jibes with the current thinking and printed articles does it?
Dig a lil deeper Brother. Look at who adopted it, why they adopted it, and for how long they used it. The list I provided above is accurate, and in no way complete.
What I think you're missing is that there just weren't that many reliable competitors to this weapon during it's early years. Name me one competitor, 1900-1915, who went anywhere near as large a following as Luger had. Just one will do. Here's a hint, other than the Browning/Colt designs I stated, there aren't any. Those things went global, just like Glocks did, or Uzi's, or Hi-powers.
You can "believe" what you want, but the history IS the history.
Ummm, That would be MY point.
Sure, some country's adopted it. But countries were adopting large cal BP rifles still while everyone esle were using Small Bore (By comparason) Smokeless rounds.
Most country's dithered around with BP, and/or revolvers, and made the jump...
OR did as you said earlier and just left it to the officers to supply their own.
Not saying the Luger wasn't used... but that's like pointing to the chinese warloards using the select fire .45 Broomhandled Mauser and saying what you said about the luger.
