I Don't Like My Sig.....But
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dixiejarhead
Well-Known Member
We have all three loads - 135gr (mostly OFO - customs), 155gr and 180gr. We have both winchester and federal loads atm.
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dixiejarhead
Well-Known Member
You must work for the Border Patrol. I recently became aware of some of the issues you guys have been having. But the firing pin rusting is news; I'd been told it was the trigger bar spring plunger that was rusting (it is now a stainless part).
The .40s have cracked a few slides, up front where the recoil spring terminated under the muzzle. Personally, I think it is that 155gr load you guys are using; but it still shouldn't be happening.
You mentioned the USPc as "much better gun". Dunno how you come to that conclusion, as they are quite similar. The USPc slide is no thicker than the P2000 in the area that was cracking... and the FFDO guys haven't had any trouble with their .40 caliber USP Compacts in, what now... ten years? Ditto Washington State Patrol, Washington State Corrections, and a host of other agencies that used the .40 caliber USPc and/or P2000 for many years- some of which are still using it. For that matter, the early USP Compacts were known to break firing pins regularly if the pistol was dry-fired a lot. A design change cured that.
And as for roll pins walking out, and rust in general... guess you never carried a Sig, eh?
Still, the problems the Border Patrol has experienced just proves that no brand is perfect. Yet, they recently signed a contract with HK for a bunch more; enough to make HK move .40 caliber P2000 production over here. But I admit to being a bit shaken when I saw those photos of the slide cracks.
You prefer Glock? Better make sure its a pre-2010 example...
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I work for Customs. The firing pin plunger is an issue as well. Every gun we have has the marine coated part, not stainless. When they were notified and we asked for an upgrade, they would not do anything, stated there were no issues with their gun etc etc... We have not signed a new contract with HK, the existing stock will be issued out and from there? Who knows. It's political. The slide cracks have been limited exclusively to the BP shooting the 155s. All our loads are +p. OFO uses a 135gr load. No issues from that one at the moment - ammo related that is. As for the sig, no I've not carried one on duty, but still would rate it over the P2000. The USPc is better in the fact that the small parts are all stainless. Trigger is better as well. I still would pick a glock over them both. I have post 2010 guns and have not had any issues with them, but they are all gen 3 guns.
From what I understand the 155gr. is hotter than normal but the Winchester 135gr. is a reduced power load. I would hope the newer issue ICE load of 180gr. HST is loaded to normal power level.
The 110gr. +P+ .38 load was a handful in a J frame revolver.
The 110gr. +P+ .38 load was a handful in a J frame revolver.
Sin-ster
GM of 4 Letter Outbursts
Okay, got the skinny from my buddy with the BP, down TX way with some input from AZ.
He says that 90%+ of the agents despise their P2000's, with complaints that the "funky LEM trigger is hard to shoot well".
Reliability wise, he says they don't run into any consistent problems; he'd never seen the rusted/sticky firing pin, though he does recall one of his buddies mentioning that out of his office in AZ.
He has seen rust on a few FPB springs, but they were still functional. (I've seen the same on Glocks, including their extractor plunger spring.) The most common breakage parts for them are the trigger spring, hammer strut, and the muzzle end of the slide where the recoil spring rests (as per Steve's comments about cracked slides I'm guessing). That said, they are comparatively rare issues-- reliability and durability had not been a concern.
He has personally been through 2 guns in the last 7 years with the Patrol-- 12k on the first one with no breakage; 8k on the second until the trigger spring broke, and about 10-12k on the current with no issues.
His main caveat about the firing pin was that they're in a super dry desert climate, and IIRC, they don't carry in a fashion that's going to get sweat into/on the weapon to rust it out.
He says that 90%+ of the agents despise their P2000's, with complaints that the "funky LEM trigger is hard to shoot well".
Reliability wise, he says they don't run into any consistent problems; he'd never seen the rusted/sticky firing pin, though he does recall one of his buddies mentioning that out of his office in AZ.
He has seen rust on a few FPB springs, but they were still functional. (I've seen the same on Glocks, including their extractor plunger spring.) The most common breakage parts for them are the trigger spring, hammer strut, and the muzzle end of the slide where the recoil spring rests (as per Steve's comments about cracked slides I'm guessing). That said, they are comparatively rare issues-- reliability and durability had not been a concern.
He has personally been through 2 guns in the last 7 years with the Patrol-- 12k on the first one with no breakage; 8k on the second until the trigger spring broke, and about 10-12k on the current with no issues.
His main caveat about the firing pin was that they're in a super dry desert climate, and IIRC, they don't carry in a fashion that's going to get sweat into/on the weapon to rust it out.
Sin-ster
GM of 4 Letter Outbursts
I'm assuming it's what comes straight from the factory-- none of the TLG/Bruce Grey stuff.
I know they do. I didn't say anything against any of them. My post was obviously aimed at the ridiculous restrictions under which they are forced to operate, making their jobs nearly impossible. I'm still pissed at the injustice done to Ramos and Compean. And to Terry.
But thanks for reading what you want into my post. I don't much like you, either.
But thanks for reading what you want into my post. I don't much like you, either.
Google USBP Officer Involved Shootings. I doubt you know anything about BP use of force policy other than what you've seen in the media. That's not me being snarky it's me encouraging to learn more. You may be suprised.
dixiejarhead
Well-Known Member
The 135 we use most definately is not a reduced load. It's hot.
dixiejarhead
Well-Known Member
Our UOF policy is actually pretty standard for an LE agency. CBP has the same UOF policy for both OFO, OAM and OBP.
dixiejarhead
Well-Known Member
Yep. We have three branches under Customs and Border Protection, each with it's own issues with the gun. Trigger sucks @ss. Bottom line. We have used heavy loads out of the glock 9mms prior to the merger with nary an issue over 9 years. I have shot tons of plus p ammo out of my glock 22s and 23 and never an issue. P2000? Yes, tons of issues... not every box or mag, but compared to the glocks with relatively no issues, they just don't hang on the same plane to me.
I am sure you know as you shoot it but lighter/faster ammunition has more felt recoil than the heavier/slower ammunition in the same type/caliber. I prefer the 165gr. or 180gr. in a .40 pistol.
dixiejarhead
Well-Known Member
Trigger sucks because 90% of our issues with accuracy for the students and officers is trigger related and compared to some of the other platforms where this is not an issue, that is what I base my opinion off of. The reset is too long on it as well as it is spongy. I was certified by my agency at Harpers Ferry (FLETC), prior range coach with the USMC and USCG. The trigger does affect overall proficiancy with the weapon. Are people going unqualified from it? No. We still have plenty of proficient shooters. We just had more with better scores with the Glock series of weapons.
