Las Vegas police ambush...CHP civilian shoots it out with pair in Walmart

[D-Ray86]

i will admit that neither term fits perfectly- but alas, if he was acting like a tool I'd charge him with whatever my supervisor told me to, and let the DA sort it out.

"Assault also is any intentional act or threat of action that reasonably causes a person to feel afraid of impending violence—such as pointing a gun at someone
La. Rev. Stat. Ann. §14:36


This is sketchy, but if someone says "it scared me the way he walked in with that gun in his hands" - you're in trouble. In NC it was called "Brandishing in a Menacing Fashion" - holding or carrying a firearm in a manner inconsistent with your environment. At low ready in a gun range- fine. At low ready in taco bell- crime. I don't think LA has a brandish law, and if so I don't recall ever hearing about it in either my limited legal or law enforcement backgrounds.

You are flirting with a law suit by thinking that way. It doesn't matter if an open carry firearm "scares" someone if the OCer didn't intentionally threaten that person. I think the best resolution would be to check with the business owner/ manager and ask if they allowed firearms. If not the OCer must leave, or they could be charged with remaining after forbidden. I am not a fan of OC in general, and despise the low ready rifle OCers, but it's their right. Other factors such as aggressive posture, confrontation initiated by the OCer, or unsafe handling of the firearm changes things.

 

[madwabbit]

You are flirting with a law suit by thinking that way. It doesn't matter if an open carry firearm "scares" someone if the OCer didn't intentionally threaten that person. I think the best resolution would be to check with the business owner/ manager and ask if they allowed firearms. If not the OCer must leave, or they could be charged with remaining after forbidden. I am not a fan of OC in general, and despise the low ready rifle OCers, but it's their right. Other factors such as aggressive posture, confrontation initiated by the OCer, or unsafe handling of the firearm changes things.

my limited legal experience in louisiana disagrees with you. if you're holding your firearm in your hands and someone says "i felt threatened"- its assault. and yes, I'd charge someone with it and not think twice.

Don't take this out of context like the next twenty idiots that'll charge in here any minute.

This is fine, regardless of your feelings:

Walking around like moron #2 here will land you in hot water, agree with it or not. Stroll down my aisle and let it get pointed in my direction like this, and he may well get shot.

 

[oleheat]

Okay, I'm not reading back through all this $hit.

But how have these two characters managed to seemingly become they symbol for The American Gun Owner???


It seems like they are EVERYWHERE- far outnumbering the actual number of people doing this silly crap!


I want to hire their PR man.

 

[madwabbit]

Okay, I'm not reading back through all this $hit.

But how have these two characters managed to seemingly become they symbol for The American Gun Owner???


It seems like they are EVERYWHERE- far outnumbering the actual number of people doing this silly crap!


I want to hire their PR man.

Amen! All it takes is one viral idiot to brand us all idiots.

 

[Hitman]

Details of the account:

http://www.cnn.com/2014/06/09/justice/las-vegas-shooting/

So far it doesn't look like the Armed Citizen fired a shot
but was shot and killed by the female as he confronted the male.

At some point they are saying that the female was wounded?
at the front of the store when cops arrived...then

After that they barricaded themselves in the back of the store.
Where she allegedly shot her husband a few times and then herself.

 

[oleheat]

Here's another article about him, HM.
Damn shame.

http://m.wafb.com/#!/newsDetail/25733644?orgId=57

 

[Hitman]

A bio on those killed;

Alyn Beck, 41

Officer Beck, 41, joined the Las Vegas Metropolitan Police Department (LVMPD) in August 2001.
His friends say he was a good person, always willing to lend a hand.
"He was always about service. He was the funnest guy.
He was, you know, you think of some people who are good in eulogy only,
and Alyn is the absolute opposite of that.

"Alyn is easy to eulogize because that's all he was, was good," said Tracy Smith, a friend.

Beck is survived by his wife and three children.


Igor Soldo, 31

Officer Soldo joined the police department in April 2006.
He attended high school in Lincoln, Nebraska, and worked as a corrections officer before joining the force.
Described by family as a good father and a great man,
Soldo is survived by his wife and baby.

He and Beck were on their lunch break at a CiCi's Pizza
when authorities say Jerad and Amanda Miller came into the restaurant and opened fire on the officers at close range.
"I think you can all imagine if this happened to one of your loved ones what just that impact might be.
They're trying to process what is it that has taken place," Sheriff Doug Gillespie said about the victims' families.

"They have good support but it's going to be a difficult road --
two young families and their fathers are no longer there."



Joseph Wilcox, 31

After the Millers shot the officers, they fled to a Walmart where Jerad Miller allegedly fired one round and told everyone to get out.
Wilcox, who was in the store and who was carrying a concealed weapon,
moved to confront the shooter. But he didn't realize Jerad Miller was not alone.

Authorities say Amanda Miller shot Wilcox, killing him.
"Joseph died attempting to protect others. His death is completely senseless," Sheriff Gillespie told reporters.
Wilcox's sister, CJ Foster, said her brother was pro-gun and believed guns don't kill people -- people kill people.
"He did a very brave thing and I'm very proud of him. I'm proud to call him my brother," she said.

Jeremy Tanner, a friend, was with Wilcox at the Walmart before the shooting started.
"Joseph had the option to go left and exit the store to safety,
but he instead went into the store and chased after the gunman," he told CNN.
"I wanted to tell him: 'Don't do this. Come with me.' But I also felt that he's possibly going to be saving some lives."

Like we talk about here all the time.

You can weigh your options and risk and try to decide now what you'll do,
but sometimes, life might not leave you with a choice. I can tell you also
what (I) think I'd likely do if in the same situation with my family(ESCAPE & EVADE)

But then again, life might not leave us the choice. Hardly anyone here can say honestly
if they(Armed) could run away from a Wal-mart in which innocent people were being slaughtered
like fish in a bucket. It sounds easy to say, yes run, escape with your life, get back home,
but that's quite literally easier said than done.

I think it would be a sad world if no one was willing to help out their fellow man
in their greatest time of need. If everyone took that approach, it'd be a sad state indeed.

If that's the way everyone thought, we'd have no LEO's either.

Obviously this young man felt the need to intervene and attempted to do so.
He made the decision to run towards the sound of gunfire, that's an admirable quality.

 

[madwabbit]

A bio on those killed;




Like we talk about here all the time.

You can weigh your options and risk and try to decide now what you'll do,
but sometimes, life might not leave you with a choice. I can tell you also
what (I) think I'd likely do if in the same situation with my family(ESCAPE & EVADE)

But then again, life might not leave us the choice. Hardly anyone here can say honestly
if they(Armed) could run away from a Wal-mart in which innocent people were being slaughtered
like fish in a bucket. It sounds easy to say, yes run, escape with your life, get back home,
but that's quite literally easier said than done.

I think it would be a sad world if no one was willing to help out their fellow man
in their greatest time of need. If everyone took that approach, it'd be a sad state indeed.

If that's the way everyone thought, we'd have no LEO's either.

Obviously this young man felt the need to intervene and attempted to do so.
He made the decision to run towards the sound of gunfire, that's an admirable quality.

I admire his call to action, but the fact is that people weren't being slaughtered. They were being told to gtfo.

If a gunman excuses you from a gunfight, take him up on the offer. If he's wantonly taking innocent life, do anything you can to stop it.

If no one's being hurt and they are asking for a 2 vs 20 with swat- let them have it.

all this said with 20/20 hindsight. The guy probably had no clue if there were innocents dead and just tried to do what he could.

 

[Hitman]

I admire his call to action, but the fact is that people weren't being slaughtered. They were being told to gtfo.

If a gunman excuses you from a gunfight, take him up on the offer. If he's wantonly taking innocent life, do anything you can to stop it.

If no one's being hurt and they are asking for a 2 vs 20 with swat- let them have it.

all this said with 20/20 hindsight. The guy probably had no clue if there were innocents dead and just tried to do what he could.

You go ahead and trust psychopathic armed robbers to be civil and honest all you want pal.

 

[tim9lives]

Here's another article about him, HM.
Damn shame.

http://m.wafb.com/#!/newsDetail/25733644?orgId=57

The entire scenario is a damned shame.

If only the two shooters would have killed themselves earlier, alone in their apartment....without going on a shooting spree which took 3 innocent lives.

It is all so senseless. This is what happens when weak minds listen to jackasses who spew hate on the internet, radio and TV....and then decide to act....to begin "the revolution."

Both of the shooters were totally delusional.

 

[madwabbit]

You go ahead and trust psychopathic armed robbers to be civil and honest all you want pal.

What's there to trust? They yelled "get the F out", and they weren't firing. He drew a firearm and approached them, not vice versa.

Not going to internet-QB this guy left and right, he did what he thought was right at the time, and hell if I had been in his shoes I might have reacted similarly. I wasn't there.

Hows it go?

The best thing = the right thing
The 2nd best thing = the wrong thing
The worst thing = nothing.

 

[tim9lives]

A bio on those killed;




Like we talk about here all the time.

You can weigh your options and risk and try to decide now what you'll do,
but sometimes, life might not leave you with a choice. I can tell you also
what (I) think I'd likely do if in the same situation with my family(ESCAPE & EVADE)

But then again, life might not leave us the choice. Hardly anyone here can say honestly
if they(Armed) could run away from a Wal-mart in which innocent people were being slaughtered
like fish in a bucket. It sounds easy to say, yes run, escape with your life, get back home,
but that's quite literally easier said than done.

I think it would be a sad world if no one was willing to help out their fellow man
in their greatest time of need. If everyone took that approach, it'd be a sad state indeed.

If that's the way everyone thought, we'd have no LEO's either.

Obviously this young man felt the need to intervene and attempted to do so.
He made the decision to run towards the sound of gunfire, that's an admirable quality.

Great point Hitman. Good post.

And FWIW....for some of us...the guilt of running would be way too traumatic after all was said and done. I know that if I was in this situation...and I ran and hid.....then found out that the shooters killed a mother and children....My guilt would destroy me.

Forget the rationalization....Survivors guilt is real.

 

[madwabbit]

Great point Hitman. Good post.

And FWIW....for some of us...the guilt of running would be way too traumatic after all was said and done. I know that if I was in this situation...and I ran and hid.....then found out that the shooters killed a mother and children....My guilt would destroy me.

Forget the rationalization....Survivors guilt is real.

valid point as well. I guess I picture it in my mind that people are screaming and scrambling AWAY from the shooters, and he's the only guy moving towards them. I dunno, but I hate that this played out the way it did.

Maybe there WERE others there doing a deer in headlights out of fear? If so, I think he did what many people would do. Again- I wasn't there, and internet speculation is as valuable as a furry turd.

 

[oleheat]

This part of the article I posted was somewhat confusing:

Metro police said Joseph Wilcox confronted Jared Miller, but wasn't aware Amanda Miller was behind him. She shot him from behind, and he died of a gunshot wound to the chest, the coroner reported.

Oddly worded, anyway. I would assume the CHP holder was facing towards her when she shot him from her position behind the male?


Granted, he didn't have a lot of time to assess what was going on, but it just makes me wonder how far behind the male she actually was, to not appear to be walking with/involved with him..... At any rate it certainly appears she was a vicious woman with zero hesitation, unfortunately.


Hell of a situation to be faced with. As Hitman said earlier- admirable.

 

[D-Ray86]

my limited legal experience in louisiana disagrees with you. if you're holding your firearm in your hands and someone says "i felt threatened"- its assault. and yes, I'd charge someone with it and not think twice.

Don't take this out of context like the next twenty idiots that'll charge in here any minute.

This is fine, regardless of your feelings:

Walking around like moron #2 here will land you in hot water, agree with it or not. Stroll down my aisle and let it get pointed in my direction like this, and he may well get shot.

I may be a case of, " you can beat the rap, but you won't beat the ride."

 

[Vanilla Gorilla]

People who have never been in combat who tell me with certainty what they would do in combat don't inspire much confidence.

 

[UnseenUSPCompact]

Nobody really knows what would have happened if Mr Wilcox would have escaped and not attempted to engage the two. The shooters could have been spooked after the his attempt to stop them, then again, they could have truely wanted everybody out of the store safely. Hindsight is 20/20 and at this point Mr Wilcox doesn't have the oppurtunity to look back and study his mistakes or sacrifice. I dont really have much to add because I really cant say what I would have done, but just remember that death is very very permanent. Understand the consequences of your actions.

 

[tim9lives]

Trust me...I am in no way saying I would have done the same as Mr. Wilcox by confronting the shooter.

I very well may have run and hidden. I have no idea.

And if I did run...and people died...I may feel like I should have done more. (Maybe not.)

Mr. Wilcox only had seconds to decide. I don't begin to envy being thrown into that scenario.

 

[Hitman]

The Two Suspects in the back of the store.

http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=7f5_1402510686


Now they're saying that the male suspect was actually killed by a Police Officer
http://www.cnn.com/2014/06/11/justice/las-vegas-shooting/

"We made a determination that she did not shoot him.
He did suffer a gunshot wound, and we believe the entrance wound was here,"
McMahill said, pointing to his own collarbone.

In fact, he said, the fatal wound was delivered from a rifle fired by police.
McMahill said three officers fired on the suspect.

 

[ejt1469]

If this guy isn't on every alphabet agencies 24-7 list- I give up.

Sh1t! Now I am too for reading the story on that web site! Thanks.