Loaded gun on a boat?

[DBMJR1]

If your house boat is on a trailer, behind your car, is it an extension of your car, which is an extension of your home?

 

[DAVE_M]

If your house boat is on a trailer, behind your car, is it an extension of your car, which is an extension of your home?

What if your car is parked on your houseboat, is it an extension of your houseboat or does it become one with the houseboat?!?!

And if you own a home, does your houseboat parked car an extension of that home or just your houseboat? What happens when you file for divorce?

 

[DBMJR1]

Just to add a little for thought here.
It is legal to have a weapon on your person while in a boat with a chp.
If you are crossing into international waters it is illegal to have a gun on the boat period.
It's never been a problem for me while offshore fishing having a gun in the cabin of my boat. While being boarded by the coast guard several times for inspections in federal waters I was politely warned of the repercussions of having a fire arm while in international waters.
Being a ccp holder I don't go anywhere without my carry gun (legally) and still cannot get a clear answer on why I am denied the right to protect my family and property while traveling in international waters that border our federal waters.
Law is law, but to this date the coast guard nor a lawyer could answer my question on this subject. Considering my boat sleeps five and is classed as a second home due to meeting criteria, in state waters/ inshore waters and federal it is an extension of my home.
I've raised this question many times because of the lines aren't always too clear as to when you are in federal U.S. Waters or international while in the outer sections of the Gulf of Mexico or the eastern coast down to the Florida tip

International law stinks especially how dangerous some of these waters can be in certain areas, I guess the world powers to be think it's ok for the criminals to be able to "borrow" my boat at will and do as they want to and with the passengers.
God bless America and our rights protected by our second amendment!

I am not aware of any law prohibiting you from possessing a firearm in international waters. Entering foreign ports you must know and follow the local laws. When reentering US waters you must have a CF 4457 filled out, or have an original receipt for the firearm to prove that you are not importing a firearm.

 

[Trailboss]

If it's international waters, who enforces gun ownership restrictions? There are no governing bodies unless the blue helmet UN troops start patrolling. I would think re-entering federal waters without proof of US ownership would be a customs issue, the same as the 5 cases of rum in your storage locker.

 

[Blue Diamond]

The U.S. Coast Guard is the governing body in International waters and the Navy. I've been boarded by both and they make the rules.

 

[mike84z28]

If you could not have a gun in your boat then duck hunters would be throwing rocks !

 

[Blue Diamond]

I have never had a problem with firearms on the boat. When we were hailed the OD asked about firearms and we were told to unload all firearms and place in the wheelhouse. When boarded the first thing they would do is secure all firearms before proceding with the inspection. Its just for their safety. You cant be too careful when u are 200 miles out in the Gulf. There are pirates and drug runners. After inspection they would return all guns and go on their way. Nothing adverse was ever said to me about the carrying of firearms on the boats.

 

[Trailboss]

The U.S. Coast Guard is the governing body in International waters and the Navy. I've been boarded by both and they make the rules.

Yes, but if you can possess a gun in the US, you should be able to possess the same firearm in international waters. There are no new restrictions. The USCG enforces US regulations and policies, it does not govern international waters.

 

[991GT3]

Yes, but if you can possess a gun in the US, you should be able to possess the same firearm in international waters. There are no new restrictions. The USCG enforces US regulations and policies, it does not govern international waters.

This.

I am not a lawyer but I *think* whomever told a US citizen that "it's illegal to possess a firearm in international waters" was lying or had no clue as to what he was saying.

I have some CG friends but they aren't the studious law comprehending types but I'll sigh and ask their input anyway.

Interesting. Very interesting.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[machinedrummer]

What if you are part of the Cajun Navy? Naval vessels underway should be exempt from any state law.

 

[tallwalker]

I'm not a lawyer either and I didn't even stay at a Holiday Inn Express last night, but I was boarded in Int waters in the dead of night once in my sailboat. First question was in fact "are there any firearms aboard". Told the nice CG guy yes and led him to my surplus Jerry pistol, then to the galley where I kept the 12 gauge liner in the spice rack. He just laughed at me. Don't know why. They were looking for drugs as a priority - any kind even prescription. Was a very odd night.

 

[MTregre]

The only thing I'm wondering about it this talk about being boarded all the time.
I think I kind of understand the international waters thing (even dead of night) but why can the CG board vessels in local / federal waters?

In my head that sums up to the same thing as LEO being able to search my car at a DWI check point without PC and simply bc I was there passing through. Am I missing something?

Keep in mind, I don't boat. Any resource I can look over to educate myself on this????

 

[troy_mclure]

Safety check. Same as motorcycle on the roads. Have to make sure your safety equipment is correct.

 

[MTregre]

Safety check. Same as motorcycle on the roads. Have to make sure your safety equipment is correct.

That's simple enough. So simple one would think, if that's cool and all... what about those lights on your dash board? spare tire? Safety check for your car?

Just seems like something that simple would have been challenged long time ago.

 

[kingfhb]

On the open ocean, in international waters (defined as anything beyond 12 miles from the nearest coastal point of a nation, but more clearly as anything beyond 24 miles of the nearest coast) the law to be enforced on the boat is the law of the boat’s flag of origin. A vessel flying the American flag (legally, meaning that the ship/boat is registered to the country whose flag it flies and carries paperwork to that effect) in international waters may carry any firearm allowed by U.S. federal law as well as legal ammunition to go with it. This, however, is only true in international waters and doesn't cover port or inside the 12 mile boundary.

State law extends within that 12 mile boundary and so do the borders of those coastal states. So it's possible to drift into another state off the cost and not even realize it.

The laws surrounding firearms on seaworthy vessels are very complex. This is why larger ships plying international ports carry no weapons beyond their flare guns or employ non-lethal, accepted weapons such as water cannons or the like as these are generally accepted without restriction in most parts of the world. Merchant seafarers who wish to bring *defense materials* aboard their vessels, including firearms meant for emergency use by the crew, must obtain a permit and register the weapons under the U.S. Department of State’s International Traffic in Arms Regulations (ITAR).

Though ships with permits are allowed to have weapons, mariners can face charges if they incur damage or injury though their use... integrated into the Coast Guard Authorization Act of 2010, which was signed into law by President Obama.

Section 912 *shields an owner, operator, time charterer, master, mariner or individual who uses, or authorizes the use of, force to defend a vessel of the United States against piracy from liability for monetary damages for any injury or death caused by such force to any person engaging in an act of piracy if such force was in accordance with standard rules for the use of force in self-defense of vessels.*

For recreational boaters, piracy seems a bit remote.


Here is something I came across...

Federal law allows the transport of weapons in vessels if they are unloaded, rendered temporarily inoperable or are packed, cased or stored in a manner that will prevent their ready use. Under these conditions, no permit is required. As you transgress Texas, Louisiana, Alabama, Florida, Georgia, South Carolina, North Carolina and Virginia waters, while the laws are *generally similar* (with some variations and exceptions while fishing or hunting), in most states gun laws that apply to boats often follow similar rules which apply to vehicles. These states’ laws also prohibit a convicted felon from possessing a firearm under any circumstances.

You may carry a concealed weapon if you have the appropriate permit.

If you do not have a concealed weapons permit, a firearm may be on your vessel as long as it is stored in the same manner as it would be if in a vehicle (private conveyance), provided that you are not in a federal park or refuge,* she added. *It is always wise to advise any law enforcement officer that you are carrying a weapon or have a weapon on your vessel.

U.S. Residents traveling with firearms are reminded to register it with U.S. Customs and Border Protection on a form 4457 prior to taking it out of the U.S. You will need to present the firearm in person to a CBP officer in order to register it. When you re-enter the U.S., a signed CF 4457 is proof that you did not acquire the firearm abroad. If you have the original receipt for a firearm purchased in the U.S., this can be used in lieu of the form to demonstrate that it is American goods returned.

Should your cruising include the Bahamas, that country’s law permits firearms aboard your vessel as part of your ship’s equipment, but they must be declared (including the ammunition count) and stay aboard the vessel in a secure compartment at all times. In the event your boat is boarded by customs or the Royal Bahamas Defense Force, the information on your cruising permit will be checked carefully against your actual supply and ammunition must match the number on the cruising permit.

The U.S. Department of Transportation Maritime Administration and U.S. Coast Guard have focused on improving the self-awareness and self-defense capabilities of the commercial shipping industry, and recreational boaters should consider doing so as well. The maritime industry and the International Maritime Organization have established self defense standards for commercial vessels transiting piracy risky regions, and recreational vessel owners should also develop a self-defense plan. If you intend to carry a firearm aboard your vessel, verify the latest gun laws for your specific state and any other areas you travel.

If a weapon is carried, boaters should implement plans for proper permitting and securing of weapons aboard and proper training in the use of your weapons for all aboard. If you operate a charter, you should have written permission to inspect all bags and include a boarding procedure which includes checking all passenger’s thoroughly for weapons.

Read up on Maritime law and the laws governing each individual state you will be operating near or in.

 

[Doctor481]

I have had LWF check my boat and had a 1911 in a shoulder holster strapped on and an AR15 laying on the deck; the only thing the agents said was "we feel outgunned". They checked fishing license, boat registration, and all the safety gear.
Basically "have a nice day, hope we didn't ruin your bass fishing".

 

[tallwalker]

Piracy does seem to be a remote occurance, but I can remember a time back in the 80's when luxury yachts were being boarded, stripped, and sunk not all that far offshore here in the Gulf. There was a whole rash of incidents for almost a year and there was quite a bit of fear about it. I think they even made a movie about it but can't remember the name. My Jerry pistol idea was a lame attempt at the time to make myself feel better. Still think a 12 gauge slug whistling across your bow might at least give you something to think about.

 

[Jmfox3]

If you are crossing into international waters it is illegal to have a gun on the boat period.

I don't think this is correct. If you are in international waters you are governed by the laws of the Flag of origin, essentially where your boat is registered. If you are a US Flagged/registered vessel then the Second Amendment applies in international waters; any gun and ammunition legal in the US is legal in international waters. Just don't go into Mexican or Cuban territorial water. http://boatlawyer.com/5132/learn-law-before-adding-guns-on-board-by-capt-robert-l-gardana