Missouri with concealed carry, no permit required

[Whitebread]

It will also allow criminals without felony convictions to carry concealed also.

JR1572

Do you think a criminal planning to commit crimes cares if the break one more useless law? Seriously let's just ban guns all together because the criminals will just turn theirs in first.

 

[DAVE_M]

They don't think past the tips of their noses.

JR1572

Because mouth breathers don't use their noses.

 

[JR1572]

Do you think a criminal planning to commit crimes cares if the break one more useless law? Seriously let's just ban guns all together because the criminals will just turn theirs in first.

It gives you something to charge them with before a major offense occurs. If you take away RS 14:95, when guys are out patrolling and spot a guy who may be carrying a weapon concealed, he can no longer be stopped.

I know it's hard for you to understand, but try to look at the other side of it.

JR1572

 

[Whitebread]

It gives you something to charge them with before a major offense occurs. If you take away RS 14:95, when guys are out patrolling and spot a guy who may be carrying a weapon concealed, he can no longer be stopped.

I know it's hard for you to understand, but try to look at the other side of it.

JR1572

Not hard to understand at all. I do find it objectionable. I carry maybe I'm up to no good. Don't get me wrong dealing with the "thug life" is a rough gig, I don't get why guys are willing to try in this day and age. I'm not a fan of terry stops. I do believe that the assumption someone is concealing a weapon going about their business does not constitute reasonable suspicion. Sorry while I am greatful guys are out there trying to make our streets safer I don't believe you should violate someone's rights to do so. I like to provide a solution when I shoot down someone's ideas but I this case I have nothing worth offering.

 

[DAVE_M]

Not hard to understand at all. I do find it objectionable. I carry maybe I'm up to no good. Don't get me wrong dealing with the "thug life" is a rough gig, I don't get why guys are willing to try in this day and age. I'm not a fan of terry stops. I do believe that the assumption someone is concealing a weapon going about their business does not constitute reasonable suspicion. Sorry while I am greatful guys are out there trying to make our streets safer I don't believe you should violate someone's rights to do so. I like to provide a solution when I shoot down someone's ideas but I this case I have nothing worth offering.

So you're cool with young Dindu Nuffins carrying his piece around without the police being able to stop him?

 

[MOTOR51]

So you're cool with young Dindu Nuffins carrying his piece around without the police being able to stop him?

Don't even try DAVE , if you notice most of us have just given up on some of the dumb **** on here. JR is new again, it's not gonna take him long.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

 

[DAVE_M]

Don't even try DAVE , if you notice most of us have just given up on some of the dumb **** on here. JR is new again, it's not gonna take him long.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

BLOWS. MY. MIND.

I'll let the derps keep derpin.

 

[Whitebread]

So you're cool with young Dindu Nuffins carrying his piece around without the police being able to stop him?

I'm not saying I have a solution. I'm not saying that chances are that young Mr. Nuffins was up to anything but trouble, but I am saying if I'm in a bad neighborhood and I'm carrying maybe I'm trying to protect myself. Yeah I know the derp probably committed plenty of crimes and probably deserves to rot in jail and the world would likely be a better place without him, but if that guy doesn't have rights then none of us do. I am deeply libertarian even when it goes against my interest (keeping the streets safe), I'm sorry if that's a problem for some people here. If anyone ever bothers to pay attention my decenting opinions always error towards freedom.

 

[JoeLiberty]

I'll pass on letting Bubba Redneck conceal his Taurus.

F'n A. If you don't carry a Glock pointed right at your Johnson in a Kydex holster, you're a 'derp' and have no right to self defense.

 

[Whitebread]

Back to the OP it's awesome to see states making the turn back to a constitutional approach to firearms. By tooth and nail we are digging our way out of this "guns are evil" societal mindset.

 

[Whitebread]

F'n A. If you don't carry a Glock pointed right at your Johnson in a Kydex holster, you're a 'derp' and have no right to self defense.

I carry an s&w that way but some how I'm still a derp. Maybe one day I can sit with the "cool kids" in the cafeteria.

 

[JoeLiberty]

I carry an s&w that way but some how I'm still a derp. Maybe one day I can sit with the "cool kids" in the cafeteria.

Hahaha, NO RIGHTS FOR YOU! If you can't afford a $500 gun, $100 holster, $120 class and $125 permit, you don't deserve to carry a gun. Srsly though, how does one view these financial requirements a 'reasonable restriction'? It is not a matter of what you carry or how much you make each year. It's a matter of personal responsibility. If you are not in prison, you should get your civil rights. End of story. This graphic may be disconcerting to some here, but 'despite' the loosening of gun restrictions all over the country, murder and violent crime continue to decline (weirdly):
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Rtc.gif
https://www.statista.com/statistics/191219/reported-violent-crime-rate-in-the-usa-since-1990/

 

[JoeLiberty]

It gives you something to charge them with before a major offense occurs. If you take away RS 14:95, when guys are out patrolling and spot a guy who may be carrying a weapon concealed, he can no longer be stopped.

I know it's hard for you to understand, but try to look at the other side of it.

JR1572

If an officer sees someone suspicious concealed carrying today, would they stop them? How would that change upon passage of such a law? I don't think it would. You still have to be able to posess the gun legally. If theres reason to believe that the person you've just seen with a gun isn't supposed to HAVE a gun, there is no impediment to stopping them and checking things out.
It sounds like your argument is basically, if someome hasn't broken the law YET, there's nothing we could do to hinder them from carrying. Imho, that's not a bug, that's a feature. It's kinda like, you should be presumed innocent until proven guilty. I know it's hard to understand, but try to look at it from the other side.

 

[JR1572]

If an officer sees someone suspicious concealed carrying today, would they stop them? How would that change upon passage of such a law? I don't think it would. You still have to be able to posess the gun legally. If theres reason to believe that the person you've just seen with a gun isn't supposed to HAVE a gun, there is no impediment to stopping them and checking things out.
It sounds like your argument is basically, if someome hasn't broken the law YET, there's nothing we could do to hinder them from carrying. Imho, that's not a bug, that's a feature. It's kinda like, you should be presumed innocent until proven guilty. I know it's hard to understand, but try to look at it from the other side.

Nope. Once constitutional carry comes along that will be gone. You can't just stop someone open carrying and demand their info because they're walking down the street with a gun. Once constitutional carry comes along you won't be able to stop anyone carrying a concealed weapon because it will be treated the same for both. The only way you would be able to do so is if you determine if the individual has already or is about to commit a crime other than carrying a concealed handgun.

There's also the possibility that if enough states go to constitutional carry Terry v. Ohio may be in jeopardy.

Look at the big picture.

Show me a major metropolitan city that has a crime problem and constitutional carry. I would love to see the statistics.

JR1572

 

[JoeLiberty]

So why don't the crooks just open carry then? Is that like a huge problem that we are all unaware of? Police can and do stop and question open carriers all the time. Go on youtube, its a thing. Not saying I agree with open carriers, but there it is.
And again, if the guy has not comitted a crime, and there's no reason to believe he is about to commit a crime, why does he NEED to be stopped??

 

[Magdump]

It will also allow criminals without felony convictions to carry concealed also.

JR1572

Lol! Awesome

 

[dk.easterly]

But y'all think it is perfectly fine if Constitutional Carry is legalized and you can carry concealed with zero training...

Again, you really think the LA CHP course is training? It's laughable at best. You simply paid for an ID card.

It will also allow criminals without felony convictions to carry concealed also.

JR1572

So you really believe that criminals don't CC because they don't have a CHP?

Either way, with Constitutional Carry or a CHP it's still illegal for a felon to carry a firearm.

 

[Whitebread]

Nope. Once constitutional carry comes along that will be gone. You can't just stop someone open carrying and demand their info because they're walking down the street with a gun. Once constitutional carry comes along you won't be able to stop anyone carrying a concealed weapon because it will be treated the same for both. The only way you would be able to do so is if you determine if the individual has already or is about to commit a crime other than carrying a concealed handgun.

There's also the possibility that if enough states go to constitutional carry Terry v. Ohio may be in jeopardy.

Look at the big picture.

Show me a major metropolitan city that has a crime problem and constitutional carry. I would love to see the statistics.

JR1572

Try Phoenix. Arizona has been constitutional since 2010.

I'm sorry just because Terry stops work from time to time doesn't make them right. I can't say I'm sorry you may lose the ability to violate someone's rights even if they are dirtbags.

If I expect to be able to move freely un-molested if you can't reasonably expect me to have committed or about to commit a crime, so should everyone else. By the way that's already a pretty low threshold to begin with I mean seriously if I'm driving maybe you think I had been speeding before you had line of sight with the LIDAR. You could stop me and politely ask me if I was speeding. Likely I would politely lie (because I tend to speed a lot), but isn't that still enough PC to make the stop? If I'm walking maybe I jaywalked two blocks back you could stop me and ask. I would likely laugh, shake your hand and tell you to watch out for those dangerous jaywalkers. You get my point.

Sometimes we have to be creative to play by the rules. I'm not a cop and I didn't stay in a holiday inn last night, but In my line of work I have to play by the rules and sometimes that requires me to think outside the box.

 

[DAVE_M]

Again, you really think the LA CHP course is training? It's laughable at best. You simply paid for an ID card.

I look at it as insight, with the potential to open their minds to getting training. I've yet to hear of a CHP instructor who didn't advocate more training to their students.

So you really believe that criminals don't CC because they don't have a CHP?

Either way, with Constitutional Carry or a CHP it's still illegal for a felon to carry a firearm.

This went way over your head.

 

[JR1572]

Try Phoenix. Arizona has been constitutional since 2010.

I'm sorry just because Terry stops work from time to time doesn't make them right. I can't say I'm sorry you may lose the ability to violate someone's rights even if they are dirtbags.

If I expect to be able to move freely un-molested if you can't reasonably expect me to have committed or about to commit a crime, so should everyone else. By the way that's already a pretty low threshold to begin with I mean seriously if I'm driving maybe you think I had been speeding before you had line of sight with the LIDAR. You could stop me and politely ask me if I was speeding. Likely I would politely lie (because I tend to speed a lot), but isn't that still enough PC to make the stop? If I'm walking maybe I jaywalked two blocks back you could stop me and ask. I would likely laugh, shake your hand and tell you to watch out for those dangerous jaywalkers. You get my point.

Sometimes we have to be creative to play by the rules. I'm not a cop and I didn't stay in a holiday inn last night, but In my line of work I have to play by the rules and sometimes that requires me to think outside the box.

Terry stops are not illegal.

Good luck with yalls endeavors.

JR1572