My police encounter while OC'ing

[netw0rks]

I was in the city of Baker (in East Baton Rouge parish). And I was stopping at a gas station to get gas (the station has no “no firearms” sticker on it). I had a collard shirt on; tucked in with a belt on. I had my black leather “cop-style” galco holster on my right side with my Springfield XD 9mm *not chambered* and the holster has it snapped in. I park my car next to a gas pump and proceed to walk up to the front door to go in and pre-pay cash for my gas.

Suddenly I heard “SIR!, SIR!” and I turn around. It was a police officer walking toward me (he was pumping gas and he was in his civilian vehicle) but he was in his uniform. I don't know if he was a Baker or Baton Rouge officer. (I think it was a Baker cop).

He walks ups to me and asks “are you a police officer?” I said “no sir” he said “do you have a concealed carry license?” and I said “no sir”. He says “You know I could arrest you right now? All I have to do is get on the radio.” I said “Sir Louisiana is an open carry state; this is open carry and the only legal way I can carry right now” he then said “NO! That is partially concealed” and I said “No sir it’s completely visible”

The officer then said “ill cut you a deal and let you put it back into your vehicle” and because cops scare the **** out of me I just said “okay that’s fair enough”. We walk back to my car which is only about 20 feet away. I turn my side to him and let him pull the pistol from my holster. He then hands it to me and I put it on the floorboard and close my door. He then walks away and I walk into the store to pay for my gas with an empty holster, and he proceeds to finish pumping his gas.

-- End of encounter.

I've been reading these forums for about 6 months and I have looked up the Louisiana gun laws. As far as I can tell I didn't do anything wrong. As I said before I was scared as ****. If I find out this officer either doesn't know the law or was discriminating against me I am going to be very angry. I am young (24) but look younger i think. And i have long hair so i look like a "hippie". But let me tell you i am a very professional person if you ask the people that know me personally and i have a very good career. I Honestly think i was profiled.

If Louisiana is an “open carry state” then WTF? Am I supposed to tape it to my leg with clear tape? Or should I just carry it in my hand every ware (oh yeah he would have just shot me in the back then for thinking I was going to rob the store). Then they'll say “Oh its partially concealed because your hand in around the butt of the gun”

I'm pretty sure I am in the right here. If I find out I am and if a cop hassles me again. I am going to tell him “go ahead call your supervisor out here too”. And waste their time for being ignorant. But like I said before I was scared as **** so I instantly forgot my rights because I was threatened with being arrested and I have never heard of a gun in a holster being “partially concealed” except for when your shirt isn't tucked in. So I thought maybe technically he could have been right.

Was this officer completely wrong?

I've attached pictures of exactly how I had it holstered below. Same holster, same gun and same position.

 

[Narco]

I was in the city of Baker (in East Baton Rouge parish). And I was stopping at a gas station to get gas (the station has no “no firearms” sticker on it). I had a collard shirt on; tucked in with a belt on. I had my black leather “cop-style” galco holster on my right side with my Springfield XD 9mm *not chambered* and the holster has it snapped in. I park my car next to a gas pump and proceed to walk up to the front door to go in and pre-pay cash for my gas.

Suddenly I heard “SIR!, SIR!” and I turn around. It was a police officer walking toward me (he was pumping gas and he was in his civilian vehicle) but he was in his uniform. I don't know if he was a Baker or Baton Rouge officer. (I think it was a Baker cop).

He walks ups to me and asks “are you a police officer?” I said “no sir” he said “do you have a concealed carry license?” and I said “no sir”. He says “You know I could arrest you right now? All I have to do is get on the radio.” I said “Sir Louisiana is an open carry state; this is open carry and the only legal way I can carry right now” he then said “NO! That is partially concealed” and I said “No sir it’s completely visible”

The officer then said “ill cut you a deal and let you put it back into your vehicle” and because cops scare the **** out of me I just said “okay that’s fair enough”. We walk back to my car which is only about 20 feet away. I turn my side to him and let him pull the pistol from my holster. He then hands it to me and I put it on the floorboard and close my door. He then walks away and I walk into the store to pay for my gas with an empty holster, and he proceeds to finish pumping his gas.

-- End of encounter.

I've been reading these forums for about 6 months and I have looked up the Louisiana gun laws. As far as I can tell I didn't do anything wrong. As I said before I was scared as ****. If I find out this officer either doesn't know the law or was discriminating against me I am going to be very angry. I am young (24) but look younger i think. And i have long hair so i look like a "hippie". But let me tell you i am a very professional person if you ask the people that know me personally and i have a very good career. I Honestly think i was profiled.

If Louisiana is an “open carry state” then WTF? Am I supposed to tape it to my leg with clear tape? Or should I just carry it in my hand every ware (oh yeah he would have just shot me in the back then for thinking I was going to rob the store). Then they'll say “Oh its partially concealed because your hand in around the butt of the gun”

I'm pretty sure I am in the right here. If I find out I am and if a cop hassles me again. I am going to tell him “go ahead call your supervisor out here too”. And waste their time for being ignorant. But like I said before I was scared as **** so I instantly forgot my rights because I was threatened with being arrested and I have never heard of a gun in a holster being “partially concealed” except for when your shirt isn't tucked in. So I thought maybe technically he could have been right.

Was this officer completely wrong?

I've attached pictures of exactly how I had it holstered below. Same holster, same gun and same position.

So the station doesn't have a No weapons sign. Then you are legit.


My only problem with your post is that you carry unchambererd. Not smart. Most encounters are over in seconds. Unless you can draw, chamber, and put 2 rounds in the thoratic triangle in less than a 1 sec. I would suggest going hot.

Oh and IBTL!!!!(in before the lock)!!!!!! and Cop Bashing!

 

[Nick]

you did nothing wrong.

from the way you describe the confrontation I don't believe you were profiled. It sounds like the officer treated you with respect.

the officer was completely wrong. A properly holstered weapon in plain view is open - general rule of thumb is the gun must be visible and identifiable as a gun from three sides, it your carry position in that holster it's quite obvious that you are carrying a firearm and it would be visible from the front, right side and rear.

I don't like the idea of open carry too much, at least not on a regular basis (I only open carry when in the woods or out on a fishing boat where concealed is not practical - however that is only my opinion, as far as the law goes you didn't nothing wrong, while uncommon, it is not wrong. Had he called it in by the time word made it to a supervisor then I'm sure the situation would have ended (or at least I would hope) after the publicity of what happened in Gonzales recently.

 

[Richard in LA]

Is open carry in Louisiana legal..........Yes
Is the legality of this known by all LEO.........apparently not
Can a grumpy/uninformed LEO pretty much ruin your day reputation, savings and a whole lot more through legal battles.....Yes

Get in touch with Dawg23, He is a ccw instructor.

 

[Manimal]

You made 1 tragic mistake that posed a serious threat to yourself, and the general population. Please never do this again.

Springfield XD 9mm *not chambered*

Carrying a firearm is no joke, it is 100% serious 100% of the time...if you or your firearm are unprepared for use then you pose more of a risk than you are an asset to society.
-----

Other mistakes here are that you allowed yourself to be disarmed, he had no legal right to make you put your firearm in your vehicle. If it was worth your time you should have asked him to call his supervisor out to the scene, his supervisor should know the law.

Many LEOs here will say that OCing is stupid and that they will give you a hard time any chance they can. That is their opinion, you followed the law in your method of carrying and you were 100% legal and in the right, that officer was wrong.

Needless to say, this threat will turn into an Anti-OC LEO bashing citizens thread & them playing LEO-versions of the race card saying that we're bashing them. They will look like this...

But the fact is, you had every legal right to open carry & next time...if it is worth the trouble & worth the risk of you being brought to jail or worse, then you should take a stand.

Thank you for carrying.

 

[netw0rks]

In my own defense i am a new gun owner and i just purchased this firearm. Yes i know not keeping one in the chamber is probably not a good idea but i am still getting comfortable with my firearm being in a holster.

But as i said before he scared the **** out of me and he made me second question facts that i already know; that what i was doing was completely legal.

As i said in my original post; if this happens again ill make a scene and make them call their supervisor out. Even though i might get arrested for distrubring the peace or some other crap; the DA would never follow through with the charges. But id have to spend a night or two in jail. And that ain't fun.

 

[Richard in LA]

If it happens again I wouldn't make a scene, but instead, politely request that a supervisor be called to your location.
If you make a scene, especially with a gun on your hip, thats when bad things could happen. Remember, the reason you would be in this situation is because of a LEO that thinks what your are doing is illegal/wrong/whatever, and the sheeple who dont know the first thing about gun laws are *probably* going to side with the officer, instead of the "crazy man with a gun" when they start taking witness' statements.

I.M.H.O., if you want to carry your newly acquired firearm on your person, get yourself a CCW permit, and you will not draw any unwanted attention to yourself.

 

[CajunTim]

Carrying a firearm is no joke, it is 100% serious 100% of the time Bull $hit you never seen a guy laugh while carrying a firearm? Dont take life so serious because you will never get out of here alive anyways....if you or your firearm are unprepared for use then you pose more of a risk than you are an asset to society.

It appears that you did nothing wrong. Is OCing legal? Yes; but it might cost you time in jail and lots of money to prove that point. Just read some of the guy with three names thread.

 

[Manimal]

lol, I didn't mean that a person cant have fun, laugh, or smile. But when it comes to firearms dealing with them is a serious act, regardless of a persons fun-factor in life.

CHP is a way to avoid attention, OC is your right. There are two ways to do it legally and those are the ways.

Tactically a CHP > OC. Your friends & enemies do not know unless you show your hand.

For general protection & crime deterrence OC > CHP. People think you are LEO, Security, Military, or otherwise well trained & criminals will avoid you or committing crime around you. Draw & ready speed is not hindered by the concealment.

I shot 1000rnds with my XD .45 before I allowed myself to carry it. I'm OK with it, but compared to some other enthusiasts & marksmen...I don't know ****.

 

[rockmup]

IMHOP this is how I see it.

IF you are going to OC, you are making a statement and you need to be willing to back it up. Period
This can be done without being an ass. You/We are all better served by not being perceived as "Difficult"

Makes no difference if you are right or not. Fact is you let them disarm you. Tells me you are not committed to the statement you were making

 

[alex]

Cops are human too. They can't know every law (or they choose to act like they don't know certain ones).

I personally want nobody to know I have a weapon on me (including cops). I consider it more of an advantage.

I do wish you luck next time you get questioned.

 

[TowTruck]

IMO I wouldn't open carry due to the fact of I have never been in a situation of having to use it therfore I don't feel comfortable OC'ing so I leave it in my briefcase or in my vehicle but I feel like you you feel comfortable to OC don't let one LEO ruin your day

 

[Slow]

As i said in my original post; if this happens again ill make a scene and make them call their supervisor out. Even though i might get arrested for distrubring the peace or some other crap; the DA would never follow through with the charges. But id have to spend a night or two in jail. And that ain't fun.

dont cause a scene! remember now, what you say, can and will be used -against- you in a court of law. Keep your mouth shut, dont say a word. just keep walking. if you feel like you have to talk then be polite. if it makes you feel better then keep a copy of the laws in your car or pocket or something but whatever you do, do not cause a scene. keep in mind that not everybody is a gun enthusiast, there are people out there, even LEO's, that believe that all guns should be banned and only LEO's should have guns so dont push the "rights" issue.

keep quiet, if you do talk or engage in any sort of conversation, be polite, dont cause a scene, avoid confrontation if possible.

 

[lilmoose0]

Ditto on the "Don't make a scene" suggestion. We (Gun owners) have a bad enough wrap as it is.

The whole thing is a technicality. I remember my dad mentioning it whe he was a cop that you could hang a gun by a thread tied to the trigger guard and technically it's concealed underneath the string.

The best thing you can do is get a CCW and take a few classes on armed self defence. Remember the 12 foot rule. If someone is within 12' of you, if they rush you, you will not have time to deploy that weapon. Also I know you stated that you were just getting comfortable with the weapon carrying it not loaded in the chamber. But I say you "need" to get "comfortable" carrying it with one in the chamber and extra mags on your belt.

If you feel that time delay (of charging the weapon and taking aim) will make you have a cooler head, go ahead then.

 

[Dredd]

This has been debated before. This is my take.......While open carrying is a right, it only leads to hassle and in the end. I prefer concealed. That is all.

 

[Dave328]

In my own defense i am a new gun owner and i just purchased this firearm. Yes i know not keeping one in the chamber is probably not a good idea but i am still getting comfortable with my firearm being in a holster.

Please don't take this the wrong way, but if you're not 10000% comfortable with your pistol enough to carry it with one in the pipe, then maybe you should look into some training to get you to at least 100% before carrying at all. I know OC is legal and all that but, as far as I'm concerned, carrying a weapon is a huge responsibility, one that may require you to draw and put rounds downrange to protect yourself or others at any time! This responsibility DEMANDS that you be comfortable enough to carry hot.

Again, not meant as a slam, just my humble opinion.

Dave

 

[LACamper]

I understand the uncomfortable feeling. I felt that way switching from my s&w 469 to my 1911. So, I didn't CCW my 1911 until I had taken it to the range for a while, and I was comfortable with it. But I do understand. I had a AD with a cheap jennings years ago with the safety on, so I definately understand.

A better way of handling the situation might be to print up a couple of sets of the copy of the applicable laws (they're cited in a few locked forums on this board!) before hand. Maybe attach a nice cover letter and put it in an envelope. Seal the envelopes and also put one in copy in your wallet. Next time you get stopped and/or questioned let the officer return the gun to your car. After the incident is over, politely return (with hands raised?) to the officers patrol car and nicely ask him if he would read the enclosed at his leisure and walk away...

 

[Manimal]

Yeah, I'd like to clarify that I did not mean, in any way, that you should cause a scene. Be respectful in all cases, no matter what.

 

[netw0rks]

Thanks for your opinions guys. For the most part i agree with what everyone has said in response to my post.

I don't want to really OC anyway. I'm going for my CCWP ASAP. But for now the only legal way i can carry is OC. Id rather not raise eyebrows and have more run-ins with cops or concerned citizens.

And in response to what Dave328 said, i have been shooting several times and i have been practicing drawing and firing while one is loaded in the chamber. I always treat firearms with respect and i will be comfortable carrying "hot" after a few more shooting sessions (just as LaCamper said)

I don't have a professional trainer but my shooting buddy has been shooting for a long time now and he has been teaching me everything he knows. He also informed me that if i posted this story people would get onto me for not keeping it chambered. And loe and behold thats exactly what the first response to my post mentioned.

But I am not offended.

 

[dawg23]

IMHOP this is how I see it.

IF you are going to OC, you are making a statement ............

You/We are all better served by not being perceived as "Difficult"

Makes no difference if you are right or not. Fact is you let them disarm you. Tells me you are not committed to the statement you were making

Dear Net:

1. I agree with the quote above "IF you are going to OC, you are making a statement" Unfortunately, most of the open carry proponents (and I presume you are not in this group) do so to make some sort of half-baked political statement.......... or to promote some juvenile political agenda.............or as a way of proclaiming their need for attention and/or their desire for confrontation.

2. WE are not better served by your, or any other misguided open carrier's deportment in such a situation. I am better served by those who carry concealed and forgo the vicarious thrill of shocking some soccer mom.

3. Next time be sure and take a cue from the last paragraph quoted above.........never let anybody in law enforcement disarm you. Heck no. Whip that puppy out, rack that slide and start defending your rights. You'll really be committed then.........but, unfortunately, it will be an involuntary commitment and it will likely last quite a bit longer than you prefer.

Please don't take this the wrong way.............but you have acknowledged that you have no training other than what your buddy shared, and presumably have had no training in the legal aspects of using deadly force, yet you are walking around with a pistol on your hip.

I am going to suggest that, unless you avail yourself of the opportunity to get some real training, in addition to a CCW class, that you need to find a new buddy. Ideally this new buddy will be an experienced attorney who is not only well-versed in criminal and civil law, but is also financially able to secure your release from the detention facility in which you may find yourself confined.

Your lack of tactical and practical judgment in open carrying, coupled with your apparent lack of training, are ingredients for a "perfect storm" with you at the center. There are plenty of instructors and attorneys in Louisiana that can provide some worthwhile guidance about the "wisdom" of open carry. I would respectfully suggest that they are better sources of advice than gun boards.

One final note.....there are, unfortunately, folks on this board who will continue to encourage you to "exercise your rights." It is an admittedly poor analogy, but I would point out that you also have the right to sit buck-naked on a fire ant bed, but it's not a very smart thing to do.

Do the smart thing.