Nurse refuses CPR on woman...

[10November1775]

Illegal? Yes in some states. As a health care provider you have a duty to act that CANNOT be over ridden by a company policy. I don't know about California law.

I also don't doubt that there's more to the story.

CPR by itself doesn't do much of anything other than lengthen the time it takes for brain death. 99% of the time the outcome here is death for the pt regardless if CPR is performed or not.

A smart nurse who didn't want to do CPR would've said it appears that the pt has been down longer than 10 minutes without any CPR. Than we never would've had this discussion.

Dave

Everything I have read that goes into more detail, does not identify the woman as a nurse or any other type of healthcare provider. Only that she was a facility staff member. I think the headlines have been fudged for dramatic purposes. She may not even known how to perform CPR

 

[benorth]

Whether CPR would have helped or not, the blatant refusal is what unnerves me. Would the majority of you feel the same had it been the woman's 50 year old daughter? I have a moral quarrel with this. I don't believe I could go not trying considering that there was no DNR on file just because it is against a company policy...

I haven't had a chance to talk with my wife, a nurse, to see how she would handle. I'm pretty sure I know her answer but I am curious.

 

[benorth]

I just listened to the audio of the call again and the dispatcher told the nurse that EMS took all liability for the actions. She even went as far to ask the nurse to hand the phone to a passer-by so they could perform CPR.

 

[troy_mclure]

I just listened to the audio of the call again and the dispatcher told the nurse that EMS took all liability for the actions. She even went as far to ask the nurse to hand the phone to a passer-by so they could perform CPR.

sure, the ems takes legal liability, but that wont keep her from being fired. if she is living in cali im assuming she is probably scraping by as it is.

 

[oleheat]

Everything I have read that goes into more detail, does not identify the woman as a nurse or any other type of healthcare provider. Only that she was a facility staff member. I think the headlines have been fudged for dramatic purposes. She may not even known how to perform CPR

I'll have to listen again- but I'm pretty sure the woman named "Colleen" identified herself as being a nurse during the 911 call, FWIW....

 

[rtr_rtr]

Illegal? Yes in some states. As a health care provider you have a duty to act that CANNOT be over ridden by a company policy. I don't know about California law.

I don't know the law here, but I would assume that the residents there don't qualify as patients - it isn't an assisted living facility. This is just intuition though

 

[rtr_rtr]

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...ing-dying-resident-CPR-DNR.html#ixzz2McPQwMD7

She had a DNR anyway. Wonder why 911 was called and paramedics were allowed to haul her off and attempt to resuscitate :/

 

[oleheat]

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...ing-dying-resident-CPR-DNR.html#ixzz2McPQwMD7

She had a DNR anyway. Wonder why 911 was called and paramedics were allowed to haul her off and attempt to resuscitate :/

The Brits can't make up their minds.

Officials at senior living facility where 87-year-old woman died say staffer who denied her CPR was NOT a nurse as it is revealed the deceased had no DNR on file

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2288562/Lorraine-Bayless-Officials-Glenwood-Gardens-say-staffer-denied-CPR-NOT-nurse.html



Now is she a nurse, or not?

She identified herself as a nurse @ 0:35.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/northamerica/usa/9909446/Nurse-refuses-to-do-CPR-hear-the-911-call.html

 

[Pas Tout La]

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...ing-dying-resident-CPR-DNR.html#ixzz2McPQwMD7

She had a DNR anyway. Wonder why 911 was called and paramedics were allowed to haul her off and attempt to resuscitate :/

A few years back we were called to a cardiac arrest where there was a live in nurse. She stood there and did/said nothing the whole time we performed CPR and attempted to shock the guy. When her supervisor arrived he chewed our asses for trying to resuscitate a DNR patient!! Turns out the live in was a hospice nurse and the patient had terminal cancer. We followed our SOPs, so at least we were protected. Why the hell did she call us and why in the hell didn't she say the guy was DNR?

Another time we had a lady try and prevent us from resuscitating her husband. She said she didn't want him to suffer anymore. When I asked if the husband had a DNR she asked me what was that! While I felt foor the lady, we still had to cover our ass!

I guess the moral is people do weird things in wierd times.

 

[dwr461]

I'll have to listen again- but I'm pretty sure the woman named "Colleen" identified herself as being a nurse during the 911 call, FWIW....

I've had A LOT of people identify themselves as "nurses" to me o/s. It seems to me to be the most commonly faked profession. CNA's, Medical Assistants, and a-holes who watched a lot fo ER have all tried to pass themselves off as "nurses" at a scene. So just b/c she says she's a nurse doesn't mean anything to me.

But what if it was agreed to by both parties involved beforehand ,as some reports have said?? I've preformed CPR numerous times with out success, except for once on an 18 month old. Most of the time it's not effective. But I still would have tried and probably been fired. Unless I SEE a DNR I'm gunna try. Worse case is, they stay dead.

Before there was a DNR law in the state of Louisiana you still could be prosecuted for honoring a verbal "agreement." if the DA chose to do so. Now in La at least we have more latitude. As I said I don't know what laws are in Ca. Verbal agreements are fine. But I recommend getting it in writting. Also talk to your DOCTOR about your end of life choices before going to the lawyer. Lawyer's will write up DNR's in some cases that are idiotic and make no medical sense. In that case a health care provider should come down on the side of doing everything until a immediate family member can be found.

Speaking of family members I've had them go against a pt's wishes even when they were in writting. They signed mom out of hospice after mom couldn't speak for herself for example.

If she were untrained and working at an assisted living center than in LA at least she'd be protected by the Good Samaritan Law when she tried to do CPR. Dispatcher's (EMD's) give CPR instructions commonly over the phone.

Dave

 

[10November1775]

I've had A LOT of people identify themselves as "nurses" to me o/s. It seems to me to be the most commonly faked profession. CNA's, Medical Assistants, and a-holes who watched a lot fo ER have all tried to pass themselves off as "nurses" at a scene. So just b/c she says she's a nurse doesn't mean anything to me

This exactly. I work in the medical field and there are a lot of people who look like nurses (wear scrubs) and think they are nurses, but are anything from Office Managers to MA's.

 

[1911Dave]

This exactly. I work in the medical field and there are a lot of people who look like nurses (wear scrubs) and think they are nurses, but are anything from Office Managers to MA's.

Yeah it kind of does make it confusing. While there is some sort of color code where I work, even I get confused who is who as there are numerous color choices for each profession. We get to choose from 3 different colors to wear. Even CNA's can wear the same as RN's and so forth.

 

[oleheat]

Whatever the case, sounds like a real $hitstorm in the making.

 

[doc ace]

CPR - you didn't build that!

 

[1911Dave]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xClHSlKEpPo

 

[benorth]

Whatever the case, sounds like a real $hitstorm in the making.

The WAFB article said officials were looking at criminal charges. I'm interested in the verdict.

As far as the DNR, I've heard contradicting info. I heard twice on the radio that she did not have one.

 

[oleheat]

The WAFB article said officials were looking at criminal charges. I'm interested in the verdict.

As far as the DNR, I've heard contradicting info. I heard twice on the radio that she did not have one.

Yup. To DNR, or not to DNR, Nurses that may or may not be real- and either way refuse to perform CPR or allow it to be performed on their premises before Fire/EMS arrives...

This just SCREAMS like a places I'd like to spend my twilight years....

 

[benorth]

sure, the ems takes legal liability, but that wont keep her from being fired. if she is living in cali im assuming she is probably scraping by as it is.

I'm ok with taking a loss if I did what i believe was the right thing. You don't go into nursing for money, you do it because you want to help people.

 

[dwr461]

I'm ok with taking a loss if I did what i believe was the right thing. You don't go into nursing for money, you do it because you want to help people.

B/C you don't have student loans to pay off, or house notes to make, or kids who need shoes. Nope shouldn't make any money they're in health care.

benorth is your real life name Obama?

Dave

 

[oleheat]

Guess we'll see how it all plays out.