Nurse refuses CPR on woman...

[benorth]

http://www.wafb.com/story/21464559/calif-woman-dies-after-nurse-refuses-to-do-cpr

 

[rtr_rtr]

How cpr would have gone, best case - crack crack crack crack, defib, tube, painful recovery, PE, SCD

In seriousness, I dont think I fault a health professional for not carrying out CPR on an almost 90 y/o that isnt under their care, though the actual phone conversation sounds a bit strange

 

[nola_]

Since no DNR on file, my guess it was not an actual nurse on the phone, maybe a sitter type etc.

 

[speedster]

Yea Fox News seemed to get their undies in a wad over this story. While the phone conversation was a little sketchy there are numerous reasons why CPR would have been and was a bad choice. I haven't heard yet if she personally requested no resuscitation, but her family stated they are accepting of the actions the facility took.

 

[mikepizz]

thats the new obamacare

 

[1911Dave]

How cpr would have gone, best case - crack crack crack crack, defib, tube, painful recovery, PE, SCD

In seriousness, I dont think I fault a health professional for not carrying out CPR on an almost 90 y/o that isnt under their care, though the actual phone conversation sounds a bit strange

I tend to agree. I see many people who go through the hell of CPR and codes that really need to just pass on. Half of them will never make it out of ICU and will never be untubed. Best case scenario is they make it through the next day.

 

[oleheat]

It should ultimately the family's call- but I sure as hell wouldn't place anyone in that facility.


And if you heard the actual 911 call, it sounded like the "nurse" had been sampling some of the painkillers onhand, anyway. Of course, that could be legal in CA.

 

[1911Dave]

It should ultimately the family's call- but I sure as hell wouldn't place anyone in that facility.


And if you heard the actual 911 call, it sounded like the "nurse" had been sampling some of the painkillers onhand, anyway. Of course, that could be legal in CA.

Half the time its the family who wont put a DNR on a patient who needs one. When there is zero quality of life they need to step up. I see what amounts to a skeleton in a bed being kept alive only with a vent and some meds so often. Sometimes the family just needs to accept that the person is better off being taken off life support and just being on pallative care.

 

[oleheat]

Half the time its the family who wont put a DNR on a patient who needs one. When there is zero quality of life they need to step up. I see what amounts to a skeleton in a bed being kept alive only with a vent and some meds so often. Sometimes the family just needs to accept that the person is better off being taken off life support and just being on pallative care.

Believe me, I understand. My own mother (who was an RN, herself) made her wishes clear to us before she passed. She wanted no part of being kept "alive" by a machine. We did not have to make that choice, as it turned out- but we would have honored her wishes if it had come to that.


My sister (also an RN) listened to this 911 call and questioned whether or not this person was an actual nurse based on the way she handled it. But who knows....

If the family of this woman accepts what happened, then maybe there is more to the story that we simply aren't hearing....

 

[Hitman]

Wow it only took until Post #5

 

[JNieman]

Wow it only took until Post #5

Beat me to the comment, lol.


At first I was kind of shocked, but after a little thought, I was angry because I made two big assumptions:

--That CPR would help or even had a chance.
--That they wouldn't do more harm than good.

Both are pretty clearly false. Take those assumptions out and they're left with "Well that sucks, but whaddaya gonna do?" Just because she's at an "assisted living" room doesn't mean they can have an RN or M.D. on hand for things like this, fully equipped with all the tools and items necessary for preventing death as often as possible. And most families of those in 'assisted living' care likely aren't paying what it would take to keep those types of people on staff 24/7.

 

[sandman7925]

Beat me to the comment, lol.


At first I was kind of shocked, but after a little thought, I was angry because I made two big assumptions:

--That CPR would help or even had a chance.
--That they wouldn't do more harm than good.

Both are pretty clearly false. Take those assumptions out and they're left with "Well that sucks, but whaddaya gonna do?" Just because she's at an "assisted living" room doesn't mean they can have an RN or M.D. on hand for things like this, fully equipped with all the tools and items necessary for preventing death as often as possible. And most families of those in 'assisted living' care likely aren't paying what it would take to keep those types of people on staff 24/7.

Assisted living facility is different than independent living facility. This did not happen at a assisted facility.

 

[oleheat]

Assisted living facility is different than independent living facility. This did not happen at a assisted facility.

Hmm...I didn't catch that part, either.

 

[JNieman]

Assisted living facility is different than independent living facility. This did not happen at a assisted facility.

My mistake. Independent living makes it even more appropriate that she/they shouldn't expect saviors on-hand.

CPR comments still stand, though.

 

[Masonmedic]

Wouldnt be a hard to choice for me....If I had clear direction by my employer not to perform CPR I would not. My priority is my job and family. And Im more than positive when she/they signed up to live there it is clearly defined and they/she agreed. It may be "unethical" or "immoral"...but illegal,nope. For once I do think FOX NEWS fumbled on this one

 

[pwl822]

thats why you need a dnr, if you choose so, my wife would keep me hooked up for ever, seen toooo many people suffer at the end that i think just want to be in peace, but left the decision up to someone else

 

[10November1775]

Wouldnt be a hard to choice for me....If I had clear direction by my employer not to perform CPR I would not. My priority is my job and family. And Im more than positive when she/they signed up to live there it is clearly defined and they/she agreed. It may be "unethical" or "immoral"...but illegal,nope. For once I do think FOX NEWS fumbled on this one

Agree. The facility has policies and guidelines in place for a reason. Either she or her family were made aware of those prior to her taking up residence. everyone associated with the event obviously understood what was going on. It's everyone outside the situation that are not privy to all the details that are making rash judgments.

 

[dwr461]

Illegal? Yes in some states. As a health care provider you have a duty to act that CANNOT be over ridden by a company policy. I don't know about California law.

I also don't doubt that there's more to the story.

CPR by itself doesn't do much of anything other than lengthen the time it takes for brain death. 99% of the time the outcome here is death for the pt regardless if CPR is performed or not.

A smart nurse who didn't want to do CPR would've said it appears that the pt has been down longer than 10 minutes without any CPR. Than we never would've had this discussion.

Dave

 

[US Infidel]

Illegal? Yes in some states. As a health care provider you have a duty to act that CANNOT be over ridden by a company policy. I don't know about California law.

But what if it was agreed to by both parties involved beforehand ,as some reports have said?? I've preformed CPR numerous times with out success, except for once on an 18 month old. Most of the time it's not effective. But I still would have tried and probably been fired. Unless I SEE a DNR I'm gunna try. Worse case is, they stay dead.

 

[oleheat]

Wouldn't it seem that the reaction/non-reaction displayed here is at the very least "unusual"? The dispatcher (who, one would think, has received calls from places like this a time or two) sure seemed to believe it was.

I just can't see standing there knowing this person will SURELY die if I don't react and do....NOTHING.


Whatever.