Pepper Spray advice

[dawg23]

Isn't Fox Labs supposed to be hot.

Do a search on almost any gun forum ................ and you'll find that Foxlabs (5.3 Million SHU) is one of the hottest and most effective pepper sprays available.

I found the following on a website (http://www.defensedevices.com/abpepspray.html) that sells a bunch of different brands of OC, including Freeze +p and Fox Labs. Granted, some of it sounds like an infomercial for Fox, but they do sell other brands.

Of course, as others have pointed out, nothing works all the time on everyone.

 

[Paul Gomez]

A 5% 2million SHU has a Scoville Content of 100,000 & 0.62% CC
Aerko Punch II is an example of this one.

A 10% 2million SHU product has a SC of 200,000 & 1.25% CC
BodyGuard LE-10 is an example of this one.

A 2% 5.3million SHU product has a SC of 106,000 & 0.66% CC
Fox Labs 5.3 is the obvious example.

Sabre offers a number of sprays in various formulations.

CQB Supply makes some of the finest OC products that I've encountered.

ASP offers a number of kubaton style keychain units in three sizes. Guardian Products manufacturers the OC inserts for them. They are a 10% 2million SHU product.

 

[dawg23]

Here is Yeager's take on OC:

http://www.tacticalresponse.com/d/node/231



Pepper Spray 101
By James Yeager

People use the word "mace" as a generic term for any type or brand of aerosol chemical weapon. They use it much in the same way as saying Kleenex for any facial tissue. Shop wisely because not all personal defense sprays are created equally. Some people choose them because OC can be carried in some places that guns are not allowed. Others just want more options.

The single biggest misconception about aerosol chemical weapons is the "percentage" of O.C. (Oleoresin Capsicum) like 5% or 10%. A person might be led to believe the 10% formula is better than a lower one like 5%. The higher percentages make it last LONGER because there is more pepper in that formula. They do not make it HOTTER and heat is what makes it effective.

Let’s say brand “A” uses a very low grade of pepper and makes the formula 10%. Brand “F” uses the highest quality peppers available and makes the formula 2%. The only way to determine how good either of them might be is to check the label for Scoville Heat Units. Heat is what makes O.C. effective. Heat of O.C. is measured by S.H.U.s (Scoville Heat Units). In my opinion, you should consider nothing less than 1 million S.H.U.s, for self-protection or Law Enforcement work. Fox Labs International has a 2% formulation, which increases recovery time, but it is 5.3 million S.H.U.s, which makes it the hottest spray on the market.

Another misconception is that the O.C. spray will affect people of different ethnic backgrounds less because they eat so many peppers as part of their staple diet. This is absolutely not true.

The three physical effects that you want your formula to cause are a burning sensation of the contaminated skin, respiratory distress, and an involuntary eye closure. The burning sensation is the least important tactically. The desired respiratory effect is to decrease the ability for the badguy breath enough to keep attacking you. The involuntary eye closure is the most important tactically. The O.C. dries the fluids in the eye on contact and forces the person to shut their eyes. If the potential felon can’t see you it will be more difficult to catch or kill you.

Most Personal Defense Sprays are available in Fog, Cone (sometimes called Mist), Stream and Foam. Each of these spray patterns has its strong points. Fog is the most effective delivery system because it is the most readily inhaled. It causes the most cross contamination onto unintended areas and is the easiest to blow back into your own face. Cone has a “shotgun” type pattern and is my personal favorite for general use. It has a more wind resistant delivery but still atomizes the OC well for inhalation. Steam is not inhaled as readily but has the greatest distance and even less likelihood of blowback. Foam has an almost shaving cream type consistency. It is highly unlikely it will be blown back by wind and is the best choice for indoor use as it causes the least cross contamination. Foam however is the least effective because it is rarely inhaled.

Some manufacturers would have you believe their product is superior to any other defensive option. Nothing works 100% of the time. NOTHING. Not your shotgun, not your baton, not your brain. Do not fall into the trap of thinking your O.C. will handle anything that comes along. It will not. Beware of any company who says their spray is the greatest thing ever invented. I have seen demonstrations of people sprayed with pepper sprays and still attack. Goal oriented people. They are dangerous and you must remain vigilant.

You must also have a back-up plan. Just like going to your back-up gun if your primary becomes damaged or taken. If your OC doesn’t work you need to be prepared to go to a higher level of force or be ready to run away. Always keep in mind your self defense tools are likely to give lackluster performance when it comes down to it.

If you carry OC as a defensive option put some thought into it. Just like with your gun-holster-ammo combination. Police officers use the OC on their belt far more often than the gun beside it. Consider which spray pattern and formulation will best suit your needs. Also consider placing several cans in strategic locations like in the car, at the office, by the front door and in your vest pocket.

Using OC isn’t as complicated as shooting but you do need to practice with it. Many companies sell inert training units that will work for practice but I suggest just using a live can. Practice like you would use it and think ahead and know which way the wind is blowing. If it blows back into your face have you really made yourself safer?

While on the topic of accidentally (or otherwise) being sprayed there are some simple guidelines you can follow to speed recovery along. Water and lots of it will help immensely. If you have non-oil based soap available (like Dawn or J&J baby shampoo) you should use it to wash the excess spray out of your hair and off your face. Make sure to get it all so you don’t get recontaminated later when you shower. Never use salves or creams to ease the burning sensation. It will only trap the OC under the skin and cause blistering. Never remove another persons contact lenses, always let a medical professional take them out.

If you ever are forced to spray someone you should move afterward. Two or three one half second bursts will do it. If the face is covered it will make it no hotter to spray more and it could actually wash some off. It should produce a reaction within three seconds of contact. If you do not get the desired effect go to your “plan B”.

Chemical Weapons can be a good choice for people who choose not to have a gun. They can also help us bridge the gap between no force and lethal force. If chosen and used correctly they can be a great asset to anyone who is worried about their personal safety.

 

[dawg23]

where can you get Fox locally? I have a loved one who won't carry, but I'd feel better if they had *something*.

Beats a scream or a sharp stick...

Tim's Knives used to sell it - before he he went out of business.

Best to just order it from one of the online sellers. It will probably be fresher (each can has a "born on" date). Fox recommends replacing it after two years.

Comp-Tac used to sell it. Plus plenty more sellers if you Google it.
http://www.tacticalresponsegear.com/catalog/index.php?cPath=35_46

 

[W1nds0rF0x]

freeze +p
i sprayed a guy one night and he looked at me and said "now what are you going to do?"

"Light your @$$ up with a 40 cal Glock...."

Nothin' says lovin' like pepper gel.

 

[Mwill75]

freeze +p
i sprayed a guy one night and he looked at me and said "now what are you going to do?"

my buddy sprayed a guy one night and he licked his lips and said " pig, you better get stronger ****, that tastes like pace picante sauce" he had "born to suffer" tattooed across his back.....

i quit using it. i used it on dogs (not very effective, but helped on occasion).

i dont care for it.

yeah, I have a very high tolerance for capsicum. I basically bleed the sh*t at this point in my life. If I'm cutting habaneros and get some in my eye its more of a 30 second annoyance than burning pain anymore. I've never been hit with pepper spray, but I'm sure that if I was determined to do something it wouldn't be much of a hindrance. And after a female friend was viciously beaten after spraying a guy who apparently had been hit with pepper spray so many times it made him laugh, I would never recommend someone using pepper spray as a defensive tool. More like a last ditch effort when all your other options have been exhausted. I would say in addition to the spray get her a good knife, just incase the attacker is still persistant after being sprayed

 

[Paul Gomez]

If you limit your expectations to 'eyejab in a can' you won't be disappointed. It may have greater effect than that, but that's langiappe.

The assumption in the expectation is that you have something else to do with the moment in time that OC buys you. I don't care what happens thirty minutes, or even thirty seconds, later. It's all about providing you with a window to do something. If you haven't trained to do anything to take advantage of that window, the opportunity is wasted.

 

[dawg23]

Here are two interesting posts from another gun board (GOTX). Both posts are by the same person - a guy whose profession is analytical chemistry.

In the first post he makes many of the same comments that Paul Gomez has made here, and on other gun boards, regarding the effective concentration of OC in pepper sprays and effective SHU ratings. This post is "cautionary" in tone, reminding us that "raw" SHU ratings can be deceiving.

He follows up with the second post after discussing pepper spray manufacturing protocols with Fox Labs. His second post largely defuses most of his initial "cautionary language" (regarding Fox Labs) and he closes with a fairly resounding endorsement of Fox Labs spray.

Post #1
So, Fox Labs advertises their product as having 2% oleoresin capsicum. The thing that you have to remember is that pure oleoresin capsicum can only be so pure, it only has so many molecules of capsaicin in it. While there are 5.3 Million Scoville heat units associated with the amount of OC in the spray, since it is only 2% by weight, the effective concentration of capsaicin itself is only .66%. This means the spray has an effective Scoville heat value of approximately 106,000. This difference in reported values is what consumers need to watch out for when purchasing pepper spray. I'm not saying they are wrong to report the first number at all, just that the consumer needs to understand exactly what the number they are reporting is.


Post #2
I wanted to post a follow-up to my previous reply. I just spent almost an hour on the phone with Edward Ferguson, the president of Fox Labs. Now, all things tactical might not be my forte, but I am an analytical chemist by profession, and I have now been fully convinced that the spray marketed by Fox Labs is the best product you can buy. First, they start with a purer OC oil from whch their product is based. So, even though it is diluted down to 2%, this higher quality OC oil does a better job than the oils used by other manufacturers. This gives the Fox spray more "nozzle heat" than other company's sprays. Now, I think that's enough for this thread, but I would be happy to discuss more of the particulars on why I feel their spray is the best.

 

[Jon]

Just picked up some Freeze +P at BRPS yesterday to give as a few gifts. They were out of the flip top.

 

[SKYWLKR]

I have heard fox is the best from severalssorces but freeze plus p is available here local.

Group buy????

 

[Conceyted]

I carry this on my keychain. Not sure how great the stuff is, but I've read good reviews about it.
http://www.copsplus.com/prodnum3029.php

My fiance carries a Fox Labs keychain but its a bit more bulky and not something I could justify carrying in my pocket.
http://www.copsplus.com/prodnum4647.php

 

[usafcajun]

I carry the Freeze+P 2k3 on my duty belt. I can only equate being sprayed with that $#&% to dunking my face in a fryer at Popeyes. I thought my skin was melting off when we got sprayed in class. But when using it on someone cover your a$$ because your mileage may vary.

 

[themcfarland]

after gustav we had a few homes in my neighborhood that were damaged beyond living in, and we picked up a bum living in one of them. I had a few fox labs grenades I had stashed and never tested/ I waited till dark and made sure that bum was inside and popped that can and they lock ON and spray alot of spray before they are empty..
Man that stuff stung my eyes the next day even when I went in to see how much damage he did.

Fox labs has my vote for bum eradication

 

[Bayoupiper]

I used our expired Clear Out canisters for the same thing after Gustav.



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[leVieux]

I am forever LSU, too. I've a photo of my Dad in the 1934 LSU Color Guard.
Your sister needs a GLOCK 26 or a S&W J-frame 38 Spec +P. I live in that neighborhood. Your sister is way too good for what may happen to her there.
Call NolaCopUSMC and let him help your sister. Do it now, before someone is hurt.
The beasts here are fearsome. HydraShock spray is needed.