Piston M-4/M-6?

[billy308]

Any of ya'll shoot the new short stroke piston guns? I'm interested in them for the claims of reliability but don'tknow anyone who has put them to the test or who makes the best one for the money. Any feedback will be appreciated . Billy

 

[Ben Segrest]

As I understand it, many (most [all]) of the systems on the market suffer from carrier tilt to some degree or another. IIRC HK and LWRC are the best of what's out there. As far as reliability goes, how many DI guns have you worn out or otherwise had problems with?


ETA: look what I found with the search button

http://www.bayoushooter.com/forums/showthread.php?50502-Ruger-SR-556

 

[billy308]

Thanks for the link. I had heard about the tilt. Nothing like the feedback u get from real shooters.

 

[vsound]

I use a POF piston upper on my 3-gun competition rifle. Mine is a Frankenstein mish-mash that I put together to my own tastes, but the basic operating system and upper are still POF.

POF worked out the carrier tilt issue by swapping to a roller cam pin. The only malfunctions mine has experienced were either magazine related or feed ramp related. Nothing has been an issue related to the operating system. I like it. Yes, I could have spent less and gone with a reliable DI gun, but I was primarily interested in having a gun that I rarely have to clean. If you're meticulous about cleaning a gun everytime you shoot it, just go with a good DI gun. If you want to run it in the dust and throw it in the safe afterwards, go with the piston.

 

[billy308]

Thanks for the info. I have a DI that i love to shoot and don't mind the cleaning but due to where i live it becomes an issue. Will yours shoot cheap ammo?

 

[vsound]

It will shoot cheap ammo, but I don't trust shooting steel case in it (might mar up the chamber of an expensive barrel).

 

[Ben Segrest]

I have a DI that i love to shoot and don't mind the cleaning but due to where i live it becomes an issue.

What sort of issue?

 

[billy308]

I live in a condo and have to do my breakdown and cleaning indoors on my kitchen table. Kinda freaks my neighbors.If i do it on the back porch and i worry about security even though i have a safe and insurance

 

[billy308]

And i am one of those who likes to keep his black guns clean,wet and ready.

 

[Mjolnir]

If u really want a piston rod semi w gr8 ergos try the Bushmaster ACR. I recently got to play with one and, man, is it ever nice. They can be had for $1800 if u look around.

Better ergos than an AR, more robust action, very accurate (so are most ARs) and Geissele Automatics makes a trigger for it, too. They also have CHF barrels that are Melonited inside and out so they'll wear better than hard chromed barreled guns.

If not this then I recommend u at least take a look at the LMT rifles then LWRCi. Don't forget the FN SCAR 16, too.

 

[Sin-ster]

My advice is to make up your own mind in this regard. If you're anything like me, you can drive yourself crazy thinking about all of the possibilities, weighing the pro's and con's and trying to find as much "real world" experience as humanly possible.

Now, if you decide to go with a piston gun over DI, you SHOULD research the brands because they are not all created equal.

But put it like this. I know a couple of serious shooters who swear any advantage of a piston gun is off set by its disadvantages at the same time. I know another (contractor now) who carries his LWRCi "at work" instead of a select fire alternative, but laughs at the viability of an ACR or SCAR. I personally shot the Sig 516 and thought it was pretty darn nice, although I can't vouch for its function or long term reliability.

What I CAN say for sure is that the real world (i.e. military) use of piston guns is limited to the HK 416. And I tend to go by the hard data when making a decision like this. Take that for what it's worth.

 

[Mjolnir]

Good post. I don't think the HK416 has seen much real world usage, either. That's not a disparaging comment; just the reality of it. The only system with a great track record is the DI System.

 

[Sin-ster]

Good post. I don't think the HK416 has seen much real world usage, either. That's not a disparaging comment; just the reality of it. The only system with a great track record is the DI System.

This is true. While apparently several SOCOM folks have fielded it, the data is relatively limited. From what I hear second and fifteenth hand, they like it.

I also know that the used HK uppers are ridiculously priced. I have an HK catalogue that has their civilian versions (417 as well), but I haven't heard or seen anything about them.

Like I said, I handled an LWRCi ("before they were LWRC") that has seen some serious use in the worst conditions, and seriously trust the opinion of the guy who uses it. He said the only time it ever even hiccuped was after an ungodly amount of rounds, including over 1k blanks.

 

[Mjolnir]

Yep. One gr8 thing about the HK416 is that renowned pistolsmith Larry Vickers was a consultant on that project. CAG/Delta/Assymetric Warfare Group fielded it for a time before they were unceremoniously confiscated by Uncle Sam.

I think HK, LMT & LWRCi are perhaps good to go. However, the Bushmaster/Remington ACR is a much better design and will prove to be so over time.

 

[Sin-ster]

Yep. One gr8 thing about the HK416 is that renowned pistolsmith Larry Vickers was a consultant on that project. CAG/Delta/Assymetric Warfare Group fielded it for a time before they were unceremoniously confiscated by Uncle Sam.

I think HK, LMT & LWRCi are perhaps good to go. However, the Bushmaster/Remington ACR is a much better design and will prove to be so over time.

Those are the 3 piston gun manufacturers I'd trust, for sure.

I haven't had the pleasure of even handling an ACR yet. I've heard so many mixed things, from people who own them and those who've never seen one alike. The Masada is still the wallpaper on this laptop, so I guess my hopes are still high. But after it was pitched as the "every man" rifle, but the price tag won't see a drop for God-knows-how-long (if ever), I've got my mad face on. That and the fact that they gave it to Bushmaster...

I keep my eyes and ears open for goteron's posts about his. It's the most thought over and used ACR in my limited "circle".

 

[Mjolnir]

Geissele Automatics offers triggers for the ACR now... Add a BattleComp as well and I think it will see off the competition. Yes, the barrel contour makes it a bit nose heavy but if you ever get a chance to "run" it the ergos are superb and the weight is an aid for fast shots (however, I'd much prefer a lighter contour barrel that puts more mass near the breach of the barrel).