Pit Bull story

[Hunh Bruh]

No more than you'd be willing to sign same if you shot anyone FOR ANY REASON...

Some people need shooting and some people need biting.

C'mon...

ok

mjolnir. would you be willing to sign a binding legal contract that if your ptbull were to bite anyone without trespassing or burglarizing your residence you would be held criminally responsible?

yes or no

 

[Mjolnir]

Isn't there a "1 bite" law on the books somewhere?

Depends on your locale.

 

[Mjolnir]

ok

mjolnir. would you be willing to sign a binding legal contract that if your ptbull were to bite anyone without trespassing or burglarizing your residence you would be held criminally responsible?

yes or no

By the mere fact that one would have a Pit Bull he/she is held criminally liable/responsible. So by default you're "the rabbit" if your bulldog breed bites anyone. There is breed restrictive legislation in many cities. If the dog scratches anyone you're in a world of crap. Bite an intruder and I'll bet it would still count as "strike one" and some lesbian liberal will decide if your dog lives or dies. Question: would you sign for whatever breed of dog you have?

The Pit Bulldog I had was from fighting dog stock. He wasn't worth a wet rag as a guard dog, would utterly destroy any large, aggressive dog (cats, oppossums, raccoons and the like as well). As for biting someone not trespassing... You'd have to be working very damned hard to have gotten him to show any aggression towards you. And I do mean WORK. Agitating them like you would to get a Shepherd having a go at you usually gets no response. Or a very half-hearted one. Now if you showed any threatening behavior to me that would have been another matter. He would not growl but he'd square up to he offender like a statue. If they continued he'd growl. If they ceased he wag his tail as if they were his buddy. Like many dogs he was protective of any and all children. Take him to the park and he'd pull directly to them get close and lie down next to them. He would not growl or snap at parents disciplining their kids but I'd notice his body language change.

That said I'd not fully trust any dog around any child unattended. You just don't know what can transpire btwn them.

So you guys are literally barking up the wrong tree.

 

[Hitman]

Dude! MIXED Pitbulls is the type of dog we ARE talking about here! Holy crap man!

Also UKC only has FT's for Pointers, not Retrievers. UKC does have HT for Gun dogs though.

AKC has the Ultimate Field Trials, leading to an NFC each year and Hunt Test for Retrievers and other Gun Dog Breeds. However UKC has a Grand Master title and better HT standards I think.

I still don't see what you think AKC ruined. They set a breed and breeding standard, without the AKC Register you could never guarantee that you're getting a Full Blooded bred dog.

As far as the Retrievers go, AKC and UKC are doing fantastic things. Test & Trials are an awesome sport. Having a Breeding Standard and strict Register standard is a major PLUS!

Now with all the Medical Certs, it's getting even better! Before long Labradors will have superior health compared to other Gun Dog breeds. In fact, they already do!

 

[762NATO]

Hmm...well put.

I would say the tool was created and then abused and is now suffering the consequences of those initial abusers.

I'm not sure how anyone could confidently purchase a BYB Pit. I mean your basically buying a genetic mutation(Mutt) of a dog with no telling how many different characteristics bred into it. They mix them with Rotts, Cane Corsos, Chows etc. I mean mixing all those aggressive breeds has led to what you see today. A BYB Pit Mixed MUTT with a short fuse, a small brain and the potential to eat a 3 year old if it accidentally steps on its tail.

So at which point do you admit/determine, that the tool has grown out of control?

Also I never said anything about destroying them.
I said I would be in favor for a state wide mandate to snip all unregistered Pits.

Proper Breeding can achieve some amazing results in a Dog Breed. It can also create a monster.

Chows are protective, and only aggressive if provoked or neglected. Indeed, that last couple of sentence is true. Chows were once a working breed that literally hunting dogs, guard dogs, pets to the wealthy echelon, and sadly, a Chinese delicacy.
Dad's bitch is as sweet as they come, but if some stranger comes to his door, she is alert, watchful.

 

[Sin-ster]

Correct me if I'm wrong here...

But those (especially in this thread) who dislike/fear APBT's neither own nor have spent much time around them at all.

Everyone who has, on the other hand, sings a completely different tune. (Honestly-- is there anyone here who has had daily experience with one of these dogs *that wasn't raised improperly* that still fears them?)

Emotion v. experience. 13 year old CoD fan v. SFOD-D veteran, comparatively.

APBT's are problem solving smart, BTW. I watched mine struggle for a tennis ball under an ottoman for a few minutes, take a step back, then grab the skirt and pull the thing out of the way to get at the ball. They're good with gate and pen latches, too. (Helps to be a terrier in that regard-- handsy little buggers.) Mine knew ALL of his toys from each other before he was a year old, by name. "Green bone", "black bone", "blue rope", "bone-bone", "red rope", "squirrely", etc.

My dog was raised and socialized around a Chihuahua; talk about an aggressive and mean little bugger. At 6 months, my APBT could have wrecked that dog at will; it didn't take long for him to figure it out, either-- he stopped running and "screaming" and just stood his ground. Big dogs, little dogs, even a couple of cats-- never an ounce of aggression. (He HATED raccoons, possums and fruit rats, though...) And people? He thought he was a 55 pound lap dog.

I'm not sure what the experts have to say, but I consider smart dogs to be more difficult to train than the stupid ones. They think, therefore they are willful. My parent's first MinPin was a doggie genius; he was VERY sweet, but a PITA in terms of discipline. Their new one, same training, same owners, is an absolute angel; one of the best behaved dogs I've ever been around, truth be told. And he's a freakin' moron. My parents agree with that assessment, in comparison with the previous dog. You can absolutely look a dog in the eye, watch it deal with certain (especially new) situations, and make solid estimations of its intelligence-- unless you're a dolt yourself, of course.

Maybe the "mutts" and corrupted bloodlines are notably different-- I certainly can't say for sure. I do wonder if they outnumber the "pure breeds"-- and by how much. And whether or not it's a dog-by-dog, or litter-by-litter situation, as opposed to a sweeping "fact of human aggression" across the whole breed. Even purebred dogs from the same litter can have drastically different personalities and demeanors...

I'm with JWG in terms of nature vs nurture, and the statistics. Every scumbag in the US owns a "pit bull" these days. They treat their fellow humans, including friends and family members, worse than I would treat ANY animal. If you restricted them to Poodles only, I suspect that breed would be the topic of our conversation instead of APBTs-- and the theme and arguments wouldn't have changed at all.

In closing-- Helen Keller owned an APBT; so did Teddy Roosevelt and the ever-loved General Patton. They all ADORED their dogs. That shows just how adaptable the breed is, and how much the OWNER has a bearing on the animal. The most vulnerable and gentle human being on the planet, and two of the most aggressive and accomplished warfighers in history ALL found the breed suitable. (Rachel Ray apparently has one, too-- LOL.)

 

[Mjolnir]

General Patton's dog was an English Bull Terrier.
Petie (Little Rascals) was a Pit Bull - he was the first registered" American Staffordshire Terrier" with the AKC.
Thomas Edison had a Pit Bull
The RCA dog was a Pit Bull

They are extremely athletic, absorb punishment like a sponge, generally very lovable to humans (they HAVE to as they generally do not socialize with other dogs but dogs ARE sociable creatures so "Duh!"). They are not to be trusted around other pets though some can. I would not recommend them to inexperienced persons as they are very strong willed and while not human aggressive they are still dogs. And improperly trained dogs are known to try to dominate humans (read show aggression to humans).

So it's more of the wrong people buying the wrong dog for the wrong reason.

Nothing new here, unfortunately.

 

[Hunh Bruh]

Chows are protective, and only aggressive if provoked or neglected. Indeed, that last couple of sentence is true. Chows were once a working breed that literally hunting dogs, guard dogs, pets to the wealthy echelon, and sadly, a Chinese delicacy.
Dad's bitch is as sweet as they come, but if some stranger comes to his door, she is alert, watchful.

chows, purple tongue yard sharks, were mauling people long before pit bulls even thought about it

 

[Hunh Bruh]

By the mere fact that one would have a Pit Bull he/she is held criminally liable/responsible. So by default you're "the rabbit" if your bulldog breed bites anyone. There is breed restrictive legislation in many cities. If the dog scratches anyone you're in a world of crap. Bite an intruder and I'll bet it would still count as "strike one" and some lesbian liberal will decide if your dog lives or dies. Question: would you sign for whatever breed of dog you have?

The Pit Bulldog I had was from fighting dog stock. He wasn't worth a wet rag as a guard dog, would utterly destroy any large, aggressive dog (cats, oppossums, raccoons and the like as well). As for biting someone not trespassing... You'd have to be working very damned hard to have gotten him to show any aggression towards you. And I do mean WORK. Agitating them like you would to get a Shepherd having a go at you usually gets no response. Or a very half-hearted one. Now if you showed any threatening behavior to me that would have been another matter. He would not growl but he'd square up to he offender like a statue. If they continued he'd growl. If they ceased he wag his tail as if they were his buddy. Like many dogs he was protective of any and all children. Take him to the park and he'd pull directly to them get close and lie down next to them. He would not growl or snap at parents disciplining their kids but I'd notice his body language change.

That said I'd not fully trust any dog around any child unattended. You just don't know what can transpire btwn them.

So you guys are literally barking up the wrong tree.

if you are positive its nurture over nature, then you should have no fear of your dog doing harm.

properly trained pit bulls take the hippocratic oath. 'do no harm'

 

[Mjolnir]

Dude! MIXED Pitbulls is the type of dog we ARE talking about here! Holy crap man!

Also UKC only has FT's for Pointers, not Retrievers. UKC does have HT for Gun dogs though.

AKC has the Ultimate Field Trials, leading to an NFC each year and Hunt Test for Retrievers and other Gun Dog Breeds. However UKC has a Grand Master title and better HT standards I think.

I still don't see what you think AKC ruined. They set a breed and breeding standard, without the AKC Register you could never guarantee that you're getting a Full Blooded bred dog.

As far as the Retrievers go, AKC and UKC are doing fantastic things. Test & Trials are an awesome sport. Having a Breeding Standard and strict Register standard is a major PLUS!

Now with all the Medical Certs, it's getting even better! Before long Labradors will have superior health compared to other Gun Dog breeds. In fact, they already do!

Okay, I'm in in incorrect about the Field Trials.

Ask the those who relish working German Shepherd Dogs what they think of American-bred Shepherds and the AKC. Their faded out coats and horrid hips was bred into them as a "standard" and Alex Karis will expound how this "trait" is a positive.

Again, look at the English Bulldog. American Scientist did some research and concluded that the original bulldog was awfully similar in confirmation to.... The working American Bulldog. So WTF happened? You got it. Kennel Club pontification.

There are others. Just LOOK at the dogs and compare that to their brief histories: Irish Wolfhounds too large. Malamutes too large, etc., etc.

It's so bad with GSDs that most of the police dogs are of imported bloodlines (Germany and Eastern Europe), Belgian Malinois (France, Germany, Belgian bloodlines which have yet to be corrupted here I the US) or Dutch Shepherds (very similar to Malinois). BTW, the Euros will cross Pit Bull blood into their working Malinois (sometimes) and Dutch Shepherd (not uncommon). I have a friend who breeds Protection / Police Malinois / Dutch Shepherd in Kennesaw, GA and they have 20% working bloodline Pit Bull in them. (where do u think brindle coats come from?) Phenomenal dogs. I'd like to have one.

 

[Mjolnir]

if you are positive its nurture over nature, then you should have no fear of your dog doing harm.

properly trained pit bulls take the hippocratic oath. 'do no harm'

Yep. That's how we end up watching someone on TV trying to explain why "Pookie" BIT the neighbor's kid. That's a stupid concept you've got. No animal behavioralist or dog trainer would advocate leaving a child unattended with a dog.

How about leave your loaded pistol at a child's birthday party with no adult supervision? Same damned thing: gross neglect.

 

[Hunh Bruh]

Yep. That's how we end up watching someone on TV trying to explain why "Pookie" BIT the neighbor's kid. That's a stupid concept you've got. No animal behavioralist or dog trainer would advocate leaving a child unattended with a dog.

How about leave your loaded pistol at a child's birthday party with no adult supervision? Same damned thing: gross neglect.

i would leave a loaded pistol at a child's birthday party with no adult supervision, long before i would have a pit bull at a child's birthday party with you on one side with a loaded pistol and me on the other with a loaded pistol.


the loaded pistol absolutely will not harm anybody unless somebody pulls the trigger. the dog? not so trusting.

 

[Hitman]

the loaded pistol absolutely will not harm anybody unless somebody pulls the trigger. the dog? not so trusting.

Hmm I don't know about that. it seems to work the same like this;

the Pit absolutely will not harm anybody unless somebody pulls it's trigger.

 

[Mjolnir]

i would leave a loaded pistol at a child's birthday party with no adult supervision, long before i would have a pit bull at a child's birthday party with you on one side with a loaded pistol and me on the other with a loaded pistol.


The loaded pistol absolutely will not harm anybody unless somebody pulls the trigger. The dog? Not so trusting.

but u do not know what the child will do...

That is the point.

And we all know how good kids are with logic, reasoning and mature decision making.

 

[Hunh Bruh]

Hmm I don't know about that. it seems to work the same like this;

there is one trigger on a gun. every single gun has the exact same trigger.

what about the dog?
look at it
walk towards it
walk away from it
turn your back
face it
run from it
run towards it
scream near it
scream at it
talk to it
talk at it
laugh.....

 

[Hunh Bruh]

but u do not know what the child will do...

That is the point.

And we all know how good kids are with logic, reasoning and mature decision making.

so the dog has a known trigger? put a sign on it then, that says don't do _____________

 

[Hunh Bruh]

my buddy has two of them. they are bad ass dogs. i would let you and your kids play around them. they are cool dogs.

 

[Hitman]

there is one trigger on a gun.

ahh touche`

 

[wadepat2]

To answer the question about owning a Pit and being "scared" of it. I do not fear my dog but just like a chain saw or gun I respect the potential for damage if not handled properly.

I have a Pit for hunting. He is the most gentle dog I own with people and with other dogs but will catch and hold (till his own death if need be) a hog. I treat him as I would a potentially dangerous tool. We pet him and show him attention while he is on his chain/runner but dont do un safe things like get in his face, rough house, or throw him in with a bunch of other dogs. He is submissive to people by nature and doesnt mess with other dogs by nurture(human correction from birth). That being said I have no doubt if threatened by another dog he would fight till death. His house is 8' from a pig and he will walk next to it to come see me and not hurt it but if he thought we were hunting he would catch it with every ounce of heart and muscle he could put into it. They are great dogs and NO OTHER dogs comes close to having the heart of a bulldog when it comes to getting the job done. This also makes them have the most potential for danger. If a Pit decides to pull the trigger for whatever reason the thing its after is in serious trouble. I think them dang lil yappy dogs and most other breeds "snap" just as much but dont carry the potential to do damage. As for as making laws that is crap. You cant make laws to control stupid or negligant people. I dont need a law. One growl at a "safe" person = one bullet for ALL DOGS. That all being said I treat all my hunting dogs like this. They have the potential for serious damage and are treated as such so they have a job and love it no need for me to pretend they are lil kids and need to be played with and entertained. Dog with a job and a pack= happy dog.

 

[Mjolnir]

so the dog has a known trigger? put a sign on it then, that says don't do _____________

As does EVERY animal on the planet; including you.

What's your point?