Policy and Procedure for firearms

[david210]

I’m currently revising my department Policy and Procedures. I want to get some info on what other department do for officers that fail to qualify. Currently mine is, after the 1st attempt the officers will come back for a 2nd attempt within a week. If the officer fails to qualify on the 2nd attempt they are placed on limited duty. Basically they work communications or became an office slave. They then have 60 days to qualify a 3rd and final time. On the 3rd attempt there is no averaging it a one shot deal. If they fail they are fired. What’s y’alls?

Also how much Defense Tactics training does your department do?

 

[Nolacopusmc]

Sounds like a good policy to me.

 

[spanky]

That's great as long as your minimum score isn't ridiculously low.

 

[JBP55]

Short version:
Officers shall be given no more than two attempts to Qualify on any given day.(They can be averaged.) If the officer fails to qualify during qualification he/she will be given remedial
firearms training not to exceed one week in duration. The officer will be given additional attempts to re-qualify within a reasonable period of time. Any officer who fails to qualify within a reasonable time frame after remedial firearms training shall be relieved of duty.

 

[JBP55]

That's great as long as your minimum score isn't ridiculously low.

Must be a minimum of 96 out of a possible 120 as per POST. POST Firearms Instructors can increase but not decrease the POST requirements.

 

[david210]

Sounds like a good policy to me.

It is the only thing I was really looking at changes is the 60 days to maybe 30 days.

 

[JBP55]

It is the only thing I was really looking at changes is the 60 days to maybe 30 days.

You should consider re-medial training. LEA's can be held liable for failure to train the officer adequately. All remedial training should be documented in writing to the Chief of Police.

 

[4sooth]

As a long time reserve with two different agencies I have never had ANY formal training in the use of firearms--only classroom instruction (intellectual information) and then we proceeded straight to the range to qualify! No actual shooting practice or even familiarization--just straight to the range. The typical FBI recruit goes through about 6000 rounds before the actual qualifying test. See Christine Hanson et al v The FBI. Be careful dismissing someone just because they have problems qualifying. The average La. police agency does not allow their officers the chance to shoot enough to acquire any real skill. A good case can be made that they were not properly trained.

 

[Nolacopusmc]

As a long time reserve with two different agencies I have never had ANY formal training in the use of firearms--only classroom instruction (intellectual information) and then we proceeded straight to the range to qualify! No actual shooting practice or even familiarization--just straight to the range. The typical FBI recruit goes through about 6000 rounds before the actual qualifying test. See Christine Hanson et al v The FBI. Be careful dismissing someone just because they have problems qualifying. The average La. police agency does not allow their officers the chance to shoot enough to acquire any real skill. A good case can be made that they were not properly trained.

Are you post certified?

 

[david210]

You should consider re-medial training. LEA's can be held liable for failure to train the officer adequately. All remedial training should be documented in writing to the Chief of Police.

we do remedial training.

 

[david210]

As a long time reserve with two different agencies I have never had ANY formal training in the use of firearms--only classroom instruction (intellectual information) and then we proceeded straight to the range to qualify! No actual shooting practice or even familiarization--just straight to the range. The typical FBI recruit goes through about 6000 rounds before the actual qualifying test. See Christine Hanson et al v The FBI. Be careful dismissing someone just because they have problems qualifying. The average La. police agency does not allow their officers the chance to shoot enough to acquire any real skill. A good case can be made that they were not properly trained.

They can practice anytime they want and we hold firearms training class. so they not just thrown on the range and expected to quailify. This policy is for officers who are out of the academy.

 

[Nolacopusmc]

we do remedial training.

Especially if they repeatedly failed first time. I would also be sure to schedule remedial training fir those who fail first try at least quarterly.

I developed a complete patrol rifle policy fir a department from the ground up. Qualification was not scheduled. Officer called in off street while on duty. Inspection on condition of weapon and go to the line.

60 rounds. 100% had to be on target. If you failed, no rifle until next rifle class. Class was 3 days. Put 60 peole through it before I turned it over.

Personal weapons with Armorer approval.

 

[Vanilla Gorilla]

The reality is if after receiving training and then some remedial training you can't pass the La POST Course of Fire with a 96 your dedication to duty and competence should be called into question and you should probably be fired. There are no long range shots, the "A" Zone is HUGE, the targets don't move, and none of the shots are rushed. It is a JOKE. I have played with friends using a Glock with the sights removed and scored a 114.

 

[4sooth]

No agency I've been associated with would allow it's officers to use the range other than on days when qualification was going on. An officers desiring to increase his/her skills had no place to shoot. Few of them could afford the ammo needed to gain any real skill.

Jim Staton of Lafayette SO told me years ago that none of the officers in his dept. were allowed to use the range at their descretion. The dept. required a POST certified instructor be present on the line when they were shooting--since most instructors had other duties of an administrative nature they generally were not available.

 

[JBP55]

All LEO should shoot the POST course, a basic combat course and low light course at least Quarterly.

 

[4sooth]

At Tangi Practical Shooters two officers from a "famous agency" showed up and entered the match. While they were signing up they allowed that while they were not there to embarrass anyone they did get state-of-the-art training. They offered to help anyone who was having difficulty with the course of fire. It did not go well for them.

At the end of the match they finished 34-35 out of 35 shooters. Both were wonderfully accurate but could not get above a PPC type speed level. One was heard to say "You can't hit anything shooting that fast". That person was an instructor at his agency. Old ideas die hard.

 

[Vanilla Gorilla]

90% of cops are poor shots and even poorer gun handlers. The longer I work as a LEO the more I become only comfortable around guns I am in control of. With few exceptions when searching buildings I am the cover officer and it ain't got squat to do with being scared.

 

[4sooth]

It was indeed MANY years ago--late eighties I think. He was a good man and I learned heaps from just talking to him. I can't say enough good things about him. His dept. used to hold PPC matches on Saturdays so our team spent many weekends there.

I did not mean to come across as inferring the policy was his--he made it clear to me that it was not his idea and worked hard to change it but with little success. The last time I saw him he had just had a stroke. Sorry to hear he's gone.

 

[dantheman]

Back in the early 80's I was BRCP Reserve . You could show up out at the old Devil's Swamp range and the range officer would hand you a one gallon bucket of .38 spcl reloads . He would tell you to come back for more when those ran out . Sounds like things have really changed .

 

[Vanilla Gorilla]

TPSO has an extremely liberal range policy and I am thankful for it.