Restaurant Carry a No-No

[JadeRaven]

So.. Can you legally carry or not in restaurant that serves alcohol?

Three pages later and still no definite answer

The present state of the statutes, rules an regulations on where we can and can't carry is truly abysmal. We can carry concealed with these permits, but lord forbid if we stop somewhere for dinner we'll get arrested and go to jail forever. Pathetic.

 

[Peacemaker]

According to the Louisiana State Police Concealed Handgun Unit, the answer is no, it is not legal to carry in any establishment that serves alcohol for consumption on the premises. Their answer is based on the Louisiana State Attorney General Opinon #13-0109, which states that only the owner, an employee or a law enforcement officer in the performance of their official duty can possess a firearm in an establishment that serves alcohol. This is their opinion that others may or may not agree with.

According to JBP55 in another thread, this AG opinion is under review by the AG's office. The State Police waiting for the a revised opinion to be issued. They will then abide by whatever new opinion, if any, is issued.

Clear as mud to me...

Got it!

 

[Peacemaker]

Three pages later and still no definite answer

The present state of the statutes, rules an regulations on where we can and can't carry is truly abysmal. We can carry concealed with these permits, but lord forbid if we stop somewhere for dinner we'll get arrested and go to jail forever. Pathetic.

CCW cleared it up.. Yes, I agree the law as it stands pretty pathetic! I guess they didn't want people getting drunk during dinner and then trying to settle the bill while carrying loaded weapons.

 

[Bayouhunting]

http://www.bayoushooter.com/forums/showthread.php?123833-AG-Opinion-13-0109-is-currently-under-review&p=1352967#post1352967

 

[rocketsteve]

Three pages later and still no definite answer

The present state of the statutes, rules an regulations on where we can and can't carry is truly abysmal. We can carry concealed with these permits, but lord forbid if we stop somewhere for dinner we'll get arrested and go to jail forever. Pathetic.

I beg to differ. The regs are VERY clear on the subject, but the AG has chosen to NOT enforce the law as it is written, and the LSP are following the AG's lead. I believe the AG has decided to put his own spin on the law for some sort of political reason, bias, or gain.



I've tried to boil the affected laws down to their most basic components:



LA Concealed Carry Law:

RS 40:1379.3

§1379.3. Statewide permits for concealed handguns; application procedures; definitions


N. No concealed handgun may be carried into and no concealed handgun permit issued pursuant to this Section shall authorize or entitle a permittee to carry a concealed handgun in any of the following:

(10) Any portion of the permitted area of an establishment that has been granted a Class A-General retail permit, as defined in Part II of Chapter 1 or Part II of Chapter 2 of Title 26 of the Louisiana Revised Statutes of 1950, to sell alcoholic beverages for consumption on the premises.
______________________________________________________________________________

Class-A Permits:

RS 26:71.1

§71.1. Class A permit; definitions
The commissioner shall issue the following types of Class A retail liquor permits:


(1)Class A-General:

(d) A Class A-General retail permit shall be issued only to an establishment where the state law provides that no person under the age of eighteen years is allowed on the premises except as provided in R.S. 26:90(A)(8)(a).


(2) Class A-Restaurant:

A Class A-Restaurant permit shall be issued only to a "restaurant establishment" as defined by R.S. 26:73(C)(1) or a dinner theater as defined in R.S. 26:2(6) and issued to a facility in conjunction with a Class "R" restaurant permit under the provisions of R.S. 26:73.
______________________________________________________________________________

Class-R Permits:

RS 26:73

§73. Restaurant "R" permit; application; fees


C.(1) For purposes of this Section, "restaurant establishment" shall be defined as an establishment:

(a) Which operates a place of business whose average monthly revenue from food and nonalcoholic beverages exceeds fifty percent of its total average monthly revenue from the sale of food, nonalcoholic beverages, and alcoholic beverages.
_________________________________________________________________________________

Louisiana Criminal Code:

RS 14:95.4

§95.4. Consent to search; alcoholic beverage outlet

A. Any person entering an alcoholic beverage outlet as defined herein, by the fact of such entering, shall be deemed to have consented to a reasonable search of his person for any firearm by a law enforcement officer or other person vested with police power, without the necessity of a warrant.

B. For purposes of this Section, "alcoholic beverage outlet" means any commercial establishment in which alcoholic beverages of either high or low alcoholic content are sold in individual servings for consumption on the premises, whether or not such sales are the primary purpose or are an incidental purpose of the business of the establishment.
*
C. An "alcoholic beverage outlet" licensed to sell firearms or containing an indoor shooting gallery shall be exempt from the provisions of this Section in those areas designated for the sale of firearms or the shooting gallery.

D. An "alcoholic beverage outlet" shall not include a restaurant if a majority of its gross receipts are from sales of food and non-alcoholic beverages.

***Majority (as defined by Merriam-Webster dictionary): 3a : a number or percentage equaling more than half of a total.
http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/majority

E. The owner of the alcoholic beverage outlet shall post a sign, at or near the entrance, that states that by the fact of entering these premises a person shall be deemed to have consented to a reasonable search of his person for any firearm by a law enforcement officer or other person vested with police power, without the necessity of a warrant.

Added by Acts 1983, No. 524, §1.


RS 14:95.5

§95.5. Possession of firearm on premises of alcoholic beverage outlet

A. No person shall intentionally possess a firearm while on the premises of an alcoholic beverage outlet.

B. "Alcoholic beverage outlet" as used herein means any commercial establishment in which alcoholic beverages of either high or low alcoholic content are sold in individual servings for consumption on the premises, whether or not such sales are a primary or incidental purpose of the business of the establishment.

C. The provisions of this Section shall not apply to the owner or lessee of an alcoholic beverage outlet, or to an employee of such owner or lessee, or to a law enforcement officer or other person vested with law enforcement authority acting in the performance of his official duties.

D. Whoever violates the provisions of this Section shall be fined not more than five hundred dollars or imprisoned for not more than six months, or both.

Acts 1985, No. 765, §1.

 

[Jasarii]

Good info Rocketsteve^^^

 

[JadeRaven]

How the hell am i supposed to know exactly what type of liquor license any given restaurant has or doesn't have? How the hell am I supposed to know how much money a restaurant makes from their booze?

Do you pick and choose which restaurant to set foot in based on the status of their liquor license? How are you supposed to know what kind of license they have before you enter? I can do everything else while armed, but i can't eat dinner? It's all ********.

It's totally pathetic.

 

[JadeRaven]

I guess I should count my blessings because my life isn't boring enough that I am able to know the current status of every restaurant's liquor license.

 

[bsoileau24]

How the hell am i supposed to know exactly what type of liquor license any given restaurant has or doesn't have? How the hell am I supposed to know how much money a restaurant makes from their booze?

Do you pick and choose which restaurant to set foot in based on the status of their liquor license? How are you supposed to know what kind of license they have before you enter? I can do everything else while armed, but i can't eat dinner? It's all ********.

It's totally pathetic.

http://bayoushooter.com/forums/showpost.php?p=407662
This may help.

 

[rocketsteve]

How the hell am i supposed to know exactly what type of liquor license any given restaurant has or doesn't have? How the hell am I supposed to know how much money a restaurant makes from their booze?

Do you pick and choose which restaurant to set foot in based on the status of their liquor license? How are you supposed to know what kind of license they have before you enter? I can do everything else while armed, but i can't eat dinner? It's all ********.

It's totally pathetic.

According to the law, as it's currently written, you cannot legally carry concealed in a Class-A General establishment. A large number of bars, dance clubs, etc. on Bourban Street are Class-A General establishments and those younger than 18 are not permitted to enter. These establishments receive more than 50% of their income from the sale of alcohol products.


If you walk into a restaurant and you see or you can bring minor children in with you, according to the current law, you are inside a Class-A Restaurant establishment. Since RS 40:1379.3(N)(10) only restricts CC in Class-A General establishments, according to the letter of the law, you are legal to CC in Chili's, Outback Steakhouse, Olive Garden, etc.


The law is not the problem, as it clearly states where you are NOT permitted to CC. The problem is with the Louisiana AG who, on his own, decided to change the law, so that CC is not permitted in ANY establishment that serves alcohol. The AG's change is NOT the law that the Louisiana State Legislature passed and that the Governor signed. The job of the Louisiana AG is to uphold the laws of this state; not change them to suit his own personal beliefs or political aspirations.






RS 40:1379.3

§1379.3. Statewide permits for concealed handguns; application procedures; definitions


N. No concealed handgun may be carried into and no concealed handgun permit issued pursuant to this Section shall authorize or entitle a permittee to carry a concealed handgun in any of the following:

(10) Any portion of the permitted area of an establishment that has been granted a Class A-General retail permit, as defined in Part II of Chapter 1 or Part II of Chapter 2 of Title 26 of the Louisiana Revised Statutes of 1950, to sell alcoholic beverages for consumption on the premises.
Class-A Permits:
_______________________________________________________________________________________________________________

RS 26:71.1

§71.1. Class A permit; definitions
The commissioner shall issue the following types of Class A retail liquor permits:


(1)Class A-General:

(d) A Class A-General retail permit shall be issued only to an establishment where the state law provides that no person under the age of eighteen years is allowed on the premises except as provided in R.S. 26:90(A)(8)(a).

 

[brewer3401]

Clear as mud - thick mud.

What's up with no one under 18 - the drinking age is 21 (with the exception of 18-20 year old accompanied by parent or guardian)

Wish they'd clean up the language.

 

[Proximo]

Clear as mud - thick mud.

What's up with no one under 18 - the drinking age is 21 (with the exception of 18-20 year old accompanied by parent or guardian)

Wish they'd clean up the language.

It's legal to go into bars at 18; you just can't drink.

The AG opinion seems to render language in the CHP statutes superfluous; poor Civilian interpretation.

 

[TheSkipster]

You are talking about HB72 which now I believe is before the Senate for consideration.

I was in a restaurant yesterday and decided to ask a police officer in street clothes a couple questions about conceal carry laws. We discussed HB 72, which he was not aware of, so then I moved on to the question, if I was allowed to CC in this restaurant (which serves alcohol)? He asked if I was drinking or planning on drinking to which I responded no and then he told me yes I could. I don't think he.

Next I asked him about open carry and where I could do that and the first thing he asked me was if my weapon was carried in a holster to which I replied yes and he said that is qualified as conceal carry. I clarified to him that the gun would be exposed and not covered by my shirt or jacket and he said he understood but that since its in a holster its considered CC. I was completely stunned.

Word to the wise, make darn certain you are compliant with the letter of the law because even some of those who are required to enforce the laws, clearly don't know them themselves.

 

[oleheat]

Next I asked him about open carry and where I could do that and the first thing he asked me was if my weapon was carried in a holster to which I replied yes and he said that is qualified as conceal carry. I clarified to him that the gun would be exposed and not covered by my shirt or jacket and he said he understood but that since its in a holster its considered CC. I was completely stunned.

Egad!





Did he go on to recommend using Velcro?

 

[madwabbit]

You are talking about HB72 which now I believe is before the Senate for consideration.

I was in a restaurant yesterday and decided to ask a police officer in street clothes a couple questions about conceal carry laws. We discussed HB 72, which he was not aware of, so then I moved on to the question, if I was allowed to CC in this restaurant (which serves alcohol)? He asked if I was drinking or planning on drinking to which I responded no and then he told me yes I could. I don't think he.

Next I asked him about open carry and where I could do that and the first thing he asked me was if my weapon was carried in a holster to which I replied yes and he said that is qualified as conceal carry. I clarified to him that the gun would be exposed and not covered by my shirt or jacket and he said he understood but that since its in a holster its considered CC. I was completely stunned.

Word to the wise, make darn certain you are compliant with the letter of the law because even some of those who are required to enforce the laws, clearly don't know them themselves.

If he doesn't know he should just say "i dont know". since he didn't have the kahunas to admit it, he went on the side of recommending what wont get you in trouble.

Just being in a holster is NOT concealed by legal definition. Hell, a thigh holster would then be CC.

 

[charlie12]

You are talking about HB72 which now I believe is before the Senate for consideration.

I was in a restaurant yesterday and decided to ask a police officer in street clothes a couple questions about conceal carry laws. We discussed HB 72, which he was not aware of, so then I moved on to the question, if I was allowed to CC in this restaurant (which serves alcohol)? He asked if I was drinking or planning on drinking to which I responded no and then he told me yes I could. I don't think he.

Next I asked him about open carry and where I could do that and the first thing he asked me was if my weapon was carried in a holster to which I replied yes and he said that is qualified as conceal carry. I clarified to him that the gun would be exposed and not covered by my shirt or jacket and he said he understood but that since its in a holster its considered CC. I was completely stunned.

Word to the wise, make darn certain you are compliant with the letter of the law because even some of those who are required to enforce the laws, clearly don't know them themselves.

Who does he work for? You need to call his boss before he cost his dept money

 

[madwabbit]

You are talking about HB72 which now I believe is before the Senate for consideration.

I was in a restaurant yesterday and decided to ask a police officer in street clothes a couple questions about conceal carry laws. We discussed HB 72, which he was not aware of, so then I moved on to the question, if I was allowed to CC in this restaurant (which serves alcohol)? He asked if I was drinking or planning on drinking to which I responded no and then he told me yes I could. I don't think he.

Next I asked him about open carry and where I could do that and the first thing he asked me was if my weapon was carried in a holster to which I replied yes and he said that is qualified as conceal carry. I clarified to him that the gun would be exposed and not covered by my shirt or jacket and he said he understood but that since its in a holster its considered CC. I was completely stunned.

Word to the wise, make darn certain you are compliant with the letter of the law because even some of those who are required to enforce the laws, clearly don't know them themselves.

I'll be that guy.

Maybe he was just providing a fast friendly answer to something so you'd leave him to his beer? I'm not anti-social but you guys gotta realize that it comes alllllll the time.


if I'm washing my car my neighbor wants to know if its illegal for him to tune up his engine at 8:00pm even though his next door neighbors are pissed. "But its still daylight?"

if I'm trying to enjoy a quick lunch, some guy strolls over and asks if he can technically carry a concealed pistol in a blue backpack in the back seat of his car if the windows aren't tinted and its between 11am and 2pm on a Tuesday. (see other thread)

So I answer: "No. have a good day!" then take a bite out of my lunch.

It's not a cops job to interpret the laws, let alone explain them to you. Honestly, you don't want cops deciphering what the laws are or aren't. If in doubt, contact a lawyer. That last sentence again 5 times.

 

[Fred_G]

Now you have me wondering,

if I'm washing my car my neighbor wants to know if its illegal for him to tune up his engine at 8:00pm even though his next door neighbors are pissed. "But its still daylight?"

is it legal or not?

I am with you about talking about work when you are not at work.

 

[madwabbit]

Now you have me wondering, is it legal or not?

I am with you about talking about work when you are not at work.

lol noise ordinance varies by locale- ours is 10pm.

 

[Fred_G]

Was just jerking your chain.