Scammed

[Rudy]

I contacted this user @Pwall about purchasing his Bul Armory UL SAS II 3.25” for $1,600. He told me he had two other individuals who were also interested in purchasing it, but it would go to whoever paid first. I asked him how we could secure our deal since I would be driving from Shreveport and did not want to make the trip for nothing. He suggested I put a hold on the gun by sending $600 via Cashapp, with the remaining $1,000 to be paid when we met in person. Unfortunately, I am now unable to complete the deal as I cannot make it to Baton Rouge. I have asked him to return my $600 hold for the gun, but he has not responded. As a retired law enforcement officer and navy veteran, it is disheartening to encounter individuals like this in our community. I posted my experience here and will post on other forums where he is a member, in the hopes that he will do the right thing and refund me before I am forced to dispute the transaction with my bank.

Link to sales thread: https://www.bayoushooter.com/threads/bul-armory-ul-sasii-3-25”.221270/

Screenshot of onsite deal confirmation:

 

[hotbiggun]

Man the way i read this is you broke the deal. Not sure Pwall owes you a refund. Doe BS have a rule to cover this scenerio?

 

[Rudy]

Man the way i read this is you broke the deal. Not sure Pwall owes you a refund. Doe BS have a rule to cover this scenerio?

I sent him $600 to hold the gun since 2 other individuals were ahead of me to purchase it. It was only to hold it as he confirmed in the screenshotted messages. Since there is no need to hold it anymore for me since I’m unable to meet, he needs to send my funds back.

 

[hotbiggun]

I sent him $600 to hold the gun since 2 other individuals were ahead of me to purchase it. It was only to hold it as he confirmed in the screenshotted messages. Since there is no need to hold it anymore for me since I’m unable to meet, he needs to send my funds back.

Yeah, you sent him $600 and at that time you guys had a deal. The money is his, the gun is yours all that needs to be done is to complete the transaction by giving him the remainder of cash.
If you couldnt make the agreed to appointment, in my opinion, you should have offered to send the remaining $1000 and reschedule the appointment. Atleast thats how i would handle it.

The only way the deal could be broken by you is if you show up and the pistol was not as advertised. Otherwise you broke the deal.

 

[hotbiggun]

Im not a mod or sitestaff so this is only my opinion.

 

[krotsman]

Did you try to reschedule? Sounds like you really want the firearm.

 

[Rudy]

Would also add that the pictures in the sales thread show a different gun than shown in our messages. In the picture he sends me below the Bul Amory lettering near the light rail is fading away almost gone, but on the sales thread pictures it’s fully there.

 

[thperez1972]

You mentioned being "a retired law enforcement officer and navy veteran." I'm not sure why that is important to the story. But if we are throwing out credentials, I'm a current law enforcement and an army combat veteran as well as a mod on this board. You mentioned you were scammed by the seller. A quick search shows the definition of a scam to be "a dishonest scheme; a fraud."

The ad you linked to was posted about 48 hours ago. The date in the picture that he sent shows the picture was taken around 11:00pm last night and the meeting was set for 3:00pm today. That would mean you told him at 10:03am this morning you would not be able to meet today. Approximately 55 minutes later, you made this post calling him a scammer.

From the exchange you posted, we know he's working today. And your text did not say you were no longer interested in the gun. It said something came up today. Based on the exchange, you were planning to be in the area on Thursday. Is it possible he's ok with waiting until then to complete the transaction you initiated?

As far as a different gun in the picture he sent you, it's obvious to me they are the same gun. You can clearly see the same wear on the M and the RY in ARMORY. And in the original picture, you can see MIAMI, FL is a little faded. All of those areas appear even lighter in the other picture with different lighting. But for the sake of argument, let's pretend they are different guns. He's selling a "Bul Armory SASII 9mm 3.25”. Excellent shape with less than 100 rounds. Holosun 507k, and TLR-7." As long as that's the item he's presenting to you at the time of the transaction, what's the issue? There's no serial number listed in the ad to narrow all of the SASII's down to 1 specific gun. And, according to the forum rules, the picture in the ad must be an accurate representation of the item being offered. We prefer the actual item be pictured but a stock photo will satisfy the requirement.

Let's see if I can create an accurate timeline.
-He said first come first serve
-You said you would drive to the Zachary area a couple of days early but you wanted to lock in the deal
-He says you can put down a deposit
-You put down a deposit
-11 hours later you tell him you would not be able to meet at the specified time and ask for the deposit back
-55 minutes later you call him a scammer

Exactly how is he a scammer? What's his scam?

If you tell him you would like to back out of the deal, I believe it would be fair for him to return the deposit. But your post calling him a scammer 55 minutes after you cancelled the deal may only serve to make it harder for you to do business with people on this forum. I'll be honest, if you replied to one of my ads, I would politely decline to do business with you.

Do you know for sure he's gotten any message you may have sent letting him know you are backing out of the deal?

 

[Gator 45/70]

Man the way i read this is you broke the deal. Not sure Pwall owes you a refund. Doe BS have a rule to cover this scenerio?

Same here.

 

[thperez1972]

Man the way i read this is you broke the deal. Not sure Pwall owes you a refund. Doe BS have a rule to cover this scenerio?

The site is a bulletin board that creates an introduction. Private conversations and transaction arrangements are not monitored or regulated. That being said, we do not want members to be cheated as we would like them returning to the site. So if we know someone is being dishonest, we can take steps to stop the dishonest behavior.

That being said, the site does not have a rule regarding a deposit when the one putting down the deposit cancels a meeting and requests their money back.

It's generally been that until the transaction is complete, either party can back out. Let's suppose the meeting took place and the buyer felt the item was not accurately described in the ad and, therefore, not what he was expecting to purchase. Would the buyer be required to complete the transaction anyway? And if he wasn't, should the seller be allowed to keep the deposit? And if the seller got to a meeting and felt uncomfortable with the person he agreed to sell to, should the seller be required to sell? If not, should he be allowed to keep the deposit?

 

[krotsman]

I wasn't going to take the time to write it all out, but I think Perez is right on with his initial assessment. Especially since the timeline is so tight. It's a bit early to call him a scammer. On that front, I wouldn't give a noob with only 2 positive feedbacks any deposit money.

 

[Magdump]

Why not use a FFL? There’s no way it’s cheaper to drive from Shreveport to BR and back than to just have the gun shipped to a FFL. I’d have done that from the get go.
I think anyone who would keep a $600 deposit in this situation OR ANYONE WHO THINKS THAT IS ACCEPTABLE needs a head check. Even a business would potentially claim a portion of that for a “restocking fee”, but not the entire amount. I think there are even laws that cover this.

Seller needs to reopen comms for sure. Refusing to answer sure doesn’t swing to his favor. You really need to be open to working out a solution. Clamming up and holding a deposit that large is not the solution. Possible the seller doesn’t read through the threads to see someone calling him out, but if he has visited this thread and still refuses to communicate, it makes him look less than honorable.
I’ve never had someone even hint that if I couldn’t follow through, my entire deposit was forfeit and there’s no way I’d even think I could get away with keeping $600 of someone’s money when there’s been zero inconvenience or loss on my part.
I say let a little time pass and if he contacts you try the FFL route. If you don’t want the gun, offer a settlement for breach of contract and ask for the bulk of your deposit back.

 

[Gator 45/70]

Why not use a FFL? There’s no way it’s cheaper to drive from Shreveport to BR and back than to just have the gun shipped to a FFL. I’d have done that from the get go.
I think anyone who would keep a $600 deposit in this situation OR ANYONE WHO THINKS THAT IS ACCEPTABLE needs a head check. Even a business would potentially claim a portion of that for a “restocking fee”, but not the entire amount. I think there are even laws that cover this.

Seller needs to reopen comms for sure. Refusing to answer sure doesn’t swing to his favor. You really need to be open to working out a solution. Clamming up and holding a deposit that large is not the solution. Possible the seller doesn’t read through the threads to see someone calling him out, but if he has visited this thread and still refuses to communicate, it makes him look less than honorable.
I’ve never had someone even hint that if I couldn’t follow through, my entire deposit was forfeit and there’s no way I’d even think I could get away with keeping $600 of someone’s money when there’s been zero inconvenience or loss on my part.
I say let a little time pass and if he contacts you try the FFL route. If you don’t want the gun, offer a settlement for breach of contract and ask for the bulk of your deposit back.

Hey Bruh, Who asked you to open up a can of common sense by thinking this one out and just using an FFL Plus shipping?
The buyer in this case quite possibly cost the seller another sale?
He's really sucking eggs now for a full refund?

 

[Pwall]

How am I a scammer? And how am I in the wrong here? You wanted to put the deposit down for me to hold for you to because I had other buyers, but you wanted it and was coming to get it today. I also told you I don’t do deposits and it’s always a first come first serve but again, you wanted to and also wanted to put it on here to have back up. I told my other buyers that it was sold and one of them was NOT happy because he was coming this afternoon to pick it up, but also knowing it’s first come first serve. I even went beyond to send you more pics, even wrote the date and deposit amount to make you more comfortable since you put a deposit. I am NOT a scammer and I do take offense to that.

 

[krotsman]

Good point that Pwall has killed 2 other possible sales for Rudy. I still don't understand why Rudy hasn't just rescheduled the pickup. It's "sold" via deposit, so when can you come get it?

 

[Pwall]

The 2 buyers that said they wanted it today, one backed out. The other offered me an even lower amount as I’m guessing he was a little butt hurt that I am holding it for sooner else that just gave a deposit, and then re contacted him to let him know it’s available again. I was counting on this to go thru as he not only gave a deposit, but was really sure he was coming today. I made another purchase (chin I should have waited) so I didn’t lose out on another deal and was the whole purpose of selling the Bul. Someone mentioned that the pictures were not the same as the sales thread and the ones I sent him last night, which they are the same pistol and the letters have always been a little faded. I believe $600 is just too much to keep from someone and I’m not a total douche, but I also need to make up the money for the purchase I made today also. I will accept the lower offer and return $300 to him and NOT keep the whole $600. I am at work today and it’s been very busy but when I seen this, I had to stop what I was doing and respond. Especially being called a scammer.

 

[hotbiggun]

Why not use a FFL? There’s no way it’s cheaper to drive from Shreveport to BR and back than to just have the gun shipped to a FFL. I’d have done that from the get go.
I think anyone who would keep a $600 deposit in this situation OR ANYONE WHO THINKS THAT IS ACCEPTABLE needs a head check. Even a business would potentially claim a portion of that for a “restocking fee”, but not the entire amount. I think there are even laws that cover this.

Seller needs to reopen comms for sure. Refusing to answer sure doesn’t swing to his favor. You really need to be open to working out a solution. Clamming up and holding a deposit that large is not the solution. Possible the seller doesn’t read through the threads to see someone calling him out, but if he has visited this thread and still refuses to communicate, it makes him look less than honorable.
I’ve never had someone even hint that if I couldn’t follow through, my entire deposit was forfeit and there’s no way I’d even think I could get away with keeping $600 of someone’s money when there’s been zero inconvenience or loss on my part.
I say let a little time pass and if he contacts you try the FFL route. If you don’t want the gun, offer a settlement for breach of contract and ask for the bulk of your deposit back.

You directing this at me?

I challenge you to a thumb war!

 

[Jstudz220]

Navy veteran here and currently a 6u baseball coach since we’re throwing out useless credentials on the topic.

You jumped the gun here Rudy. Sounds like you backed out on the deal and didn’t even give the guy a chance to respond.

 

[Rudy]

You mentioned being "a retired law enforcement officer and navy veteran." I'm not sure why that is important to the story. But if we are throwing out credentials, I'm a current law enforcement and an army combat veteran as well as a mod on this board. You mentioned you were scammed by the seller. A quick search shows the definition of a scam to be "a dishonest scheme; a fraud."

The ad you linked to was posted about 48 hours ago. The date in the picture that he sent shows the picture was taken around 11:00pm last night and the meeting was set for 3:00pm today. That would mean you told him at 10:03am this morning you would not be able to meet today. Approximately 55 minutes later, you made this post calling him a scammer.

From the exchange you posted, we know he's working today. And your text did not say you were no longer interested in the gun. It said something came up today. Based on the exchange, you were planning to be in the area on Thursday. Is it possible he's ok with waiting until then to complete the transaction you initiated?

As far as a different gun in the picture he sent you, it's obvious to me they are the same gun. You can clearly see the same wear on the M and the RY in ARMORY. And in the original picture, you can see MIAMI, FL is a little faded. All of those areas appear even lighter in the other picture with different lighting. But for the sake of argument, let's pretend they are different guns. He's selling a "Bul Armory SASII 9mm 3.25”. Excellent shape with less than 100 rounds. Holosun 507k, and TLR-7." As long as that's the item he's presenting to you at the time of the transaction, what's the issue? There's no serial number listed in the ad to narrow all of the SASII's down to 1 specific gun. And, according to the forum rules, the picture in the ad must be an accurate representation of the item being offered. We prefer the actual item be pictured but a stock photo will satisfy the requirement.

Let's see if I can create an accurate timeline.
-He said first come first serve
-You said you would drive to the Zachary area a couple of days early but you wanted to lock in the deal
-He says you can put down a deposit
-You put down a deposit
-11 hours later you tell him you would not be able to meet at the specified time and ask for the deposit back
-55 minutes later you call him a scammer

Exactly how is he a scammer? What's his scam?

If you tell him you would like to back out of the deal, I believe it would be fair for him to return the deposit. But your post calling him a scammer 55 minutes after you cancelled the deal may only serve to make it harder for you to do business with people on this forum. I'll be honest, if you replied to one of my ads, I would politely decline to do business with you.

Do you know for sure he's gotten any message you may have sent letting him know you are backing out of the deal?

I agree with most of your points. I mentioned those credentials because I am proud to have served my country and state as a African American male. When incidents like this occur on a dedicated forum with like-minded individuals, it is very disheartening, as I previously mentioned. After comparing the photo he sent me with what was posted in the sales thread, it is clear that the pistol shows more wear than advertised. I did not notice this until I investigated further while uploading evidence here. I received a response from him at today at 11:57 am, but have not heard anything else from him. Given the circumstances, I no longer wish to deal with this user and have informed him of this through text messages. Since the $600 was only a hold for our deal time to meet today, and since there will be no deal of any sort with this user, I have requested a refund of those funds. Why would this user think he's entitled to keep those funds?

The site is a bulletin board that creates an introduction. Private conversations and transaction arrangements are not monitored or regulated. That being said, we do not want members to be cheated as we would like them returning to the site. So if we know someone is being dishonest, we can take steps to stop the dishonest behavior.

That being said, the site does not have a rule regarding a deposit when the one putting down the deposit cancels a meeting and requests their money back.

It's generally been that until the transaction is complete, either party can back out. Let's suppose the meeting took place and the buyer felt the item was not accurately described in the ad and, therefore, not what he was expecting to purchase. Would the buyer be required to complete the transaction anyway? And if he wasn't, should the seller be allowed to keep the deposit? And if the seller got to a meeting and felt uncomfortable with the person he agreed to sell to, should the seller be required to sell? If not, should he be allowed to keep the deposit?

Highly agree with this as well. Transaction was never complete. The $600 was sent to hold a time to meet today to proceed with the transaction. Why would he keep my entire $600? Like I mentioned I noticed the wear to the frame and on top of all of this am no longer interested in dealing with this user.

How am I a scammer? And how am I in the wrong here? You wanted to put the deposit down for me to hold for you to because I had other buyers, but you wanted it and was coming to get it today. I also told you I don’t do deposits and it’s always a first come first serve but again, you wanted to and also wanted to put it on here to have back up. I told my other buyers that it was sold and one of them was NOT happy because he was coming this afternoon to pick it up, but also knowing it’s first come first serve. I even went beyond to send you more pics, even wrote the date and deposit amount to make you more comfortable since you put a deposit. I am NOT a scammer and I do take offense to that.

Correct, to hold it. I sent you $600 to hold it for our deal today only. If I am not able to meet you, and considering all of this now, I am confirming to never deal with you. Why would you think it is okay to keep my full $600? I do not want to proceed in dealing with you, as mentioned through text and here. You claimed you had two other individuals who were readily able to purchase it. I do not understand why you are making us go through this over my funds.

The 2 buyers that said they wanted it today, one backed out. The other offered me an even lower amount as I’m guessing he was a little butt hurt that I am holding it for sooner else that just gave a deposit, and then re contacted him to let him know it’s available again. I was counting on this to go thru as he not only gave a deposit, but was really sure he was coming today. I made another purchase (chin I should have waited) so I didn’t lose out on another deal and was the whole purpose of selling the Bul. Someone mentioned that the pictures were not the same as the sales thread and the ones I sent him last night, which they are the same pistol and the letters have always been a little faded. I believe $600 is just too much to keep from someone and I’m not a total douche, but I also need to make up the money for the purchase I made today also. I will accept the lower offer and return $300 to him and NOT keep the whole $600. I am at work today and it’s been very busy but when I seen this, I had to stop what I was doing and respond. Especially being called a scammer.

And in what world do you think keeping half is ok? Like you're mentioning here the sales threads photos and photos sent to me via text show the letters faded. If I met you either way I would have not proceeded as this not what's shown for sale in your sales thread. Like the admin is stating, until a transaction is complete either party can back out. Did we agree on any back out fee or anything like that? No, so why do you think you deserve to keep half of the funds that I sent you for what we agreed on which was to simply hold a time slot for me and you to meet.

 

[krotsman]

You directing this at me?

I challenge you to a thumb war!

Bet!