Suppressor question

[richard]

I was told by a gun store that my son that’s 19 could be on my trust and posess suppressors. That i can buy all the suppressors i want and then add him to the trust. Then my attourney said he cannot be a trustee till he is 21. He is a beneficiary on the trust but not a trustee. Can anyone help me?

 

[thperez1972]

Is your attorney familiar with the specifics of gun trusts? Is he the one who created your trust? @JCcypress is one of the members on this board. He also specializes in gun trusts. Homefully if he's got some spare time he can chime in.

 

[richard]

Yes he is the one who did the trust and he does a lot of trust. But I’m just trying to figure it out lol

 

[thperez1972]

At the risk of sounding sarcastic, let me make sure I got this right. Your lawyer, the one you paid for, gave you legal advice and you would like a second opinion from strangers on the internet?

 

[dantheman]

Sounds like it .

 

[twinin]

He is a beneficiary but not a trustee. He cannot be in possession or use them out of your (or another trustee) presence until he turns 21. He can possess/use/shoot them in your presence now.

You can make him a trustee at 21, and he can possess/use them alone. Doing it now, he could access them as part of the trust when he turns 21 should something happen to your and or trustees.

 

[AdvancedLaser]

Or call Kenny @meplatgroup who is an attorney, builds trust, and sells the most suppressors in Louisiana.

 

[meplatgroup]

Or call Kenny @meplatgroup who is an attorney, builds trust, and sells the most suppressors in Louisiana.

In all likelihood I’m the one who drafted his trust and told him 21 in the first place and yet he’s taking the word of some mouth breathing, window licking, counter monkey because he’s telling him what he wants to hear. We deal with this all the time.

I don’t mind explaining things more than once as talking to me can be like trying to drink from a firehose because there is a lot of info coming at you but as you can imagine I get a bit snippy when people argue with me on legal matters based on what they read on a forum or was told to them by someone in another shop.

I’ve been practicing law for over four lustrums (be the first to name the only movie I’ve ever heard that term in and you can pick up a free Meplat Group koozie at the shop) and doing gun trusts for a dozen years. I never stop learning and I don’t know everything but this one is one of those easy answers.

For those in the cheap seats, the answer is 21 years of age to be a responsible party (trustee or individual purchaser) on NFA items. And if you need ammo to win this argument with your local gun shop expert who swears trustees can be 18, ask him what are the only types of firearms an 18 year old can acquire on a 4473. He should reply “long guns”. Then ask him which category gets checked on a 4473 when you dispose of an NFA item to a non-licensee. He should reply “other firearms”. Then stare at him intently until the lightbulb goes on.

 

[Cheesy Lasagna]

Well, there it is.

 

[John_]

I’ve been practicing law for over four lustrums (be the first to name the only movie I’ve ever heard that term in and you can pick up a free Meplat Group koozie at the shop) and doing gun trusts for a dozen years.

John Wayne in Rooster Cogburn. I was age 18 and a big fan of JW. Still a fan.

 

[meplatgroup]

John Wayne in Rooster Cogburn. I was age 18 and a big fan of JW. Still a fan.

Bingo. Call the shop next time you are in Metairie 504-556-2000 and you can swing by and grab a koozie.

 

[richard]

Well apparently you can add a 18-21 year old on a trust as a trustee and he can possess all items.

 

[Cheesy Lasagna]

‍Jheesh…

 

[AdvancedLaser]

Well apparently you can add a 18-21 year old on a trust as a trustee and he can possess all items.

@meplatgroup
Do it Kenny. Let it allll out
I assume he is just trolling at this point, but I know how this is going to go.

 

[John_]

Some people need protection from themselves.

 

[meplatgroup]

@meplatgroup
Do it Kenny. Let it allll out
I assume he is just trolling at this point, but I know how this is going to go.

I don’t think he’s trolling. I think he’s trying to reassure himself that what he has on his trust is correct.

What he is referring to is based upon something that another attorney who is a friend of mine reached out for me to look at this morning. However, I’ve known about this FAQ for years and have discussed it at length with other dealers, attorneys, and ATF staff.

How old to I have to be to make or own an NFA firearm? | Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives

The National Firearms Act (NFA) contains no minimum age in regard to the possession of NFA firearms. Regardless, federal firearms law prohibits a licensed importer, manufacturer, dealer or collector (i.e., licensees) from selling or delivering any firearm or ammunition to any individual that the...

www.atf.gov

Unfortunately, it doesn’t change my opinion. Here’s why.

First, there is a running joke that if you ask three IOIs a question you will get four answers. This isn’t to disparage IOIs but even they don’t always have a firm grasp of the ever changing regulations and positions their agency takes on all issues—-particularly in NFA.

By way of example, I currently hold three FFLs and have been dealing with the ATF for more than a decade. During my first audit (pre 41-F) , I was cited for not running background checks on trustees when they picked up NFA items. I printed up a copy of an ATF bulletin FAQ that explicitly said you did not have to (much more clearly than what is above, literally “No, you do not have to run a background check on trustees.”) The IOI looked at it and tossed it back across the table at me and said that has been changed. I was never given a published copy of that directive, but the only discipline was a letter, so I rolled over. Now, in this post 41-F environment, we are back to not running background checks on NFA items. Go figure.

Second, my clients don’t want problems. They don’t want to be test cases. There is plenty of gray area in both the law and regulations regarding NFA items and we stay the hell away from that.

For instance, I know of no example of anyone ever being arrested or prosecuted for crossing state lines with an SBR without filing a 5320.20. I don’t even know anyone that has been asked for a copy of that form. Further, I can show you a white paper by Prince Law Group arguing that a 5320.20 is not required for the temporary interstate transport of NFA items. I still emphatically recommend my clients use them when crossing state lines temporarily with an SBR, SBS, MG, or DD (silencers and AOWs are exempted). It’s too easy to stay away from what could become a life changing problem.

Now, I know being a Responsible Person on a trust at 21 is legal. 100%. Let’s look at the possibilities of an 18 year old as a Responsible Person.

If some game warden with a hard on grabs your 18 year old out of the stand and hooks him up because he is in “illegal” possession of an NFA item, you may have an argument you can make saying there are no age restrictions in the NFA (there were no age restrictions at all on firearm acquisition at the time the NFA was passed) and maybe, after tens (hundreds) of thousands in attorneys fees and years of your life, you win that argument. At that point, the feds pat you on the ass and tell you congrats and you are free to go, but no one gives you back that money or time. Maybe it doesn’t go that way and your kid ends up a felon.

I think good judgment requires us to weigh both the possibility and the severity of the “bad thing” happening. If the “bad thing” is really bad (this is) even if the possibility is low, if said possibility can be easily mitigated, it must be mitigated. So, I won’t put anyone under 21 on a trust. I’ve had insistent clients and told them I won’t do it.

I can clearly stand on the fact that 21 is legal and unfortunately I have seen nothing that clearly states 18 is legal. I’ve spoken to IOIs and some very high up folks in NFA branch over the years about this and they acknowledge the gray are and the consensus has always been 21.

For the record, I cannot wait for the day the whole damn gun control system crumbles and
I think that may be a real possibility under Bruen. But until then, I need to stand on what I KNOW won’t get anyone in trouble and that is minimum age of 21 to be an RP on a trust.

 

[thperez1972]

Well apparently you can add a 18-21 year old on a trust as a trustee and he can possess all items.

Let's recap here. You were given information from the lawyer who drafted your trust. You were given contradictory information by an employee at a gun shop. Given the contradictory information, you decided to ask strangers on the internet. One of the strangers turned out to be the retailer who sells the most suppressors in the state. He provided you the same information the lawyer provided. Your reply to his post is that, apparently, both the lawyer and the retailer, who also happens to be a lawyer, are incorrect. But you chose to not provide any source to your statement.

Is your goal to make friends on here?