Today

[Cat]

Earlier today Spec, my mother and I were walking out of lunch when an individual walked up. I immediately went to the vehicle door behind Spec as he got close when I saw Spec throw up a arm to tell the man "I can't help you." the man took another step and Spec instructed him a bit louder to STOP. I'm looking for Mom who was in my blind spot when I heard my husband growl at the man "don't touch me".

It was a surreal moment because at that point I was behind Spec. We were in the middle of a parking lot and between cars. I heard him being forceful without seeing what was going on. The guy never stopped, never slowed down and actually grabbed Spec's arm. He was a single move away from staring down a gun barrel. We left and the guy walked into Smackin Mac's in Pineville. I thought long and hard about calling 911. For as long as we were in sight of the restaurant I never saw him walk out of that building.

That more than anything has bugged me all day. What would I have done if he hurt someone inside all because I was too worried about being overly paranoid. The last time we called about suspicious behavior we were told that there was little to be done just because we merely thought something was wrong. So I did it both ways. I think next time if I waste the cop's time so be it. Suspicious urban democrats gets a dime dropped. I'd rather eyeball rolling than worried about a handful of female short order cooks.

 

[Speedlace]

What exactly was he saying to Spec?
Was he asking for spare change?

 

[Cat]

No idea what he said. I think Spec was focusing on him more than what was coming out of the guys mouth.

Spec calls it a "failure" by letting the guy get close enough to touch, and more importantly, stab one of us. I don't think it's a "failure". It was a full on realization just how quick these things can happen. And probably a bit of well.. We've had to say stop, can't help you before and they turn around. This guy didn't and it took that millisecond between his brain trying to grasp that to the guy actually grabbing his arm.

At least that's my thoughts on it.

 

[BRitchieLCK]

I had an EDP walk up on me when I used to work for an armored car service while I was replenishing the cash in an ATM. I was alerted by my driver when the guy was about 50 feet away and I turned towards him and heard him mumbling something. I told him politely to walk the other direction but he was still coming my direction. I then put my hand on my M&P .40 and again asked him to stop and get back. When he still insisted on walking towards me while I had $160,000.00 in front of the ATM I drew my pistol and had it in a down ready postion and at that point I think as crazy as he was he got the point and walked away. As soon as he turned and walked away I grabbed the money and put it back on the truck. I then seen this crackhead walk to a fastfood restaurant parking lot and walk up to a woman getting in her car and this fool tried to grab her door. We had already called our office to report this guy but when he tried to grab the womans door I called the police and since it was in the hood an officer responded in literally 2 minutes. Well what do you know the guys a crazy crackhead for real and he got to take a ride in the car with the pretty lights.

 

[Specularius]

He was trying to say "can you help me out." He was very insistant and did not want to take no. I felt that I failed by allowing him to actually make contact. It was very disturbing. I had two women I was looking after and just did not get forceful enough fast enough. If I had not been armed, I believe I would have used some amount of force, say a shove or a punch. Being armed made me want to de-escalate things without the use of force.

 

[Cat]

I still don't think you failed specifically. Yeah you let him get close but I think situations like that will always improve upon experience. I do think you will never ever let someone get that close again however.

 

[S&W4ME]

You were able to get out of a bad situation without anyone getting harmed, I would say you handled everything just fine Spec.

 

[Yrdawg]

Had a couple similar things in the past year or so...all this talk and reading...all the what if's...and STILL sometimes we get walked up on.

And I felt like I had failed too...same thought, I'm carrying a gun, don't get in a brawl

 

[SpeedRacer]

**** happens fast, there's not much you can do about it. Learn from it, but don't beat yourself up.

 

[Cat]

Ok. What's an EDP?

 

[S&W4ME]

emotionally disturbed person

 

[Cat]

emotionally disturbed person

Oh! doh. That's obvious. . thank you.

 

[LACamper]

Spec, you handled it OK. No one got hurt. Maybe you let him get too close, but you can't be on red alert all the time, no one can. Sometimes it works to say 'yes' or 'sure', and smile, since they're not expecting it. They're expecting you to say no, go away. Sometimes agreeing with them will get their attention. You don't have to give anything, just stall long enough to rearrange things, get the women and kids into the car, shift for a quicker draw if needed, whatever it takes to improve your situation and give you an extra second or two. Maybe you can reach into your pocket and come out with a dollar, stalling longer. Whatever it takes to have them reacting to you instead of the other way around...

I'm just glad ya'll are in one piece...

 

[jmanrogers]

Ok. What's an EDP?

EDP Electronic Data Processing
EDP Eau de Parfum
EDP Energias de Portugal
EDP Electricidade de Portugal (Portugal)
EDP Ecuaciones en Derivadas Parciales (Spanish: Equation in Partial Derivatives)
EDP Excessive Deficit Procedure
EDP External Diploma Program
EDP Enterprise Document Presentment
EDP End Diastolic Pressure (cardiology)
EDP Economic Development Partnership
EDP Educational Development Plan
EDP Environmental Differential Pay
EDP Emotionally Disturbed Person (NYPD)
EDP Entrepreneurship Development Programme (India)
EDP Electronic Dictionary Project
EDP Electronic Document Professional (Xplor International)
EDP Event Driven Programming
EDP Energy-Delay Product
EDP English Democrats Party (England)
EDP European Democratic Party
EDP Eating Disorders Program
EDP Engineering Development Program
EDP External Degree Program
EDP Extended Degree Program (Washington State University)
EDP Equipment Distribution Program
EDP Employee Development Plan
EDP Educational Development Program
EDP Enhanced Dot Pitch
EDP Enterprise Development Program
EDP Electron Density Profile
EDP Expedite Departure Path
EDP Engine Driven Pump (hydraulic, aerospace)
EDP Economic Development Professional (Northeast Economic Developers Association)
EDP Eco-Domestic Product
EDP Electronic Data Processor
EDP Engineering Demand Parameter
EDP Enchant Deadly Poison (Ragnarok online gaming)
EDP Emergency Department Physician
EDP Everyday Purchases (credit card rewards program)
EDP English Democratic Party (UK)
EDP Emergency Defense Plan
EDP Event Design Plan
EDP ELINT Data Processor
EDP Engineering Development Plan
EDP Engineering Drawing Package
EDP Edema Disease Principle
EDP Early Departure Procedure (maritime)
EDP Engineering Development Phase
EDP Embedded Data Processing/Processor
EDP Enterprise Development Process
EDP Emergency Depressurisation
EDP Expedited Drug Program
EDP Ethylene-Diamene-Pyrocatechol (etchant solution)
EDP Epoxy Deck Paint
EDP Electronic Detailed Package
EDP Escravos do Presidente (Portugal, band)
EDP Excess Demand Probability
EDP Erratic Dive Profile (SCUBA diving)
EDP Exhibit Design and Production (tradeshows)
EDP Error Detection Probability
EDP Equipment Deadlined for Parts
EDP Every Damn Penny
EDP Emergency Dance Party (Internet slang)
EDP Explosive Delivered Penetrator

 

[sraacke]

Keep your hands up and move. Verbalize your warnings including profanity if necessary. (Get the F**k back!!!) If he gets within arms length, strike to the throat...

Remember your training.

You can handle him Cat. Take him out. Go all Gomez on his ass.

 

[Cat]

Dang. I've lost weight!

I just told him he's going to have to suck it up and take a week off to take a three or five day course. He's wanted to for a couple years. He looks at it as a week less than he can spend with us. I swear we've been having the strangest fights. He came in saying he'd love to have a particular gun. His birthday is in two weeks. Done. Had it in the bag. He changed his mind. We went around and around over that all night.

 

[sraacke]

Glad you lost the weight. Nice to know the photos I took that day are a positive reminder of the progress you've made becoming the new, improved, slimmer Cat.
Sorry to hear about the other probs.

 

[Nolacopusmc]

Spec,

A little more detail if you can.

I understand your point of it being a failure, and in one regards you are right, but in hindsight, which luckily you were afforded in this case, there is a lot to learn.

1. I am not clear. Did you or did you not draw and/or display your firearm? If you did, is that what you think "deterred him" or made him take your words a little more seriously.
2. You say you should not have allowed him to get close enough to physically touch you. Depending on how aggressively he was approaching and what your guy told you (which I think it was not good based on the way it was explained here--basically you feel you knew this was bad, but was too nice about it)....what do you think you SHOULD have done or would have done differently,now that the situation is over and you have the benefit of hindsight.
3. Was CAT armed and in a position to assist with lethal Force should that have become a necessity?
4. What was your physical reaction when he grabbed your arm? Would you have done anything differently? Do you think you COULD/SHOULD have used more force?

Based on what I gathered from this story, I was involved in an identical situation with my wife on our third week of dating which resulted in a nice stern chest push and a close tuck of a G17. Individual was definitely off his meds and simply waddled of MF'ing someone else. I called 911 and advised them just in time to pull off as they were pulling up. Knowing I was in a Circle K parking lot and everything was inevitably on tape, I told the dispatcher I was Eastbound on I-10 to have a unit catch up to me if they needed a statement. Responding officer called my cell, I told him what happened and that i left the area because I had an unarmed female with me, and was cool with that. Remember....while the same, every situation and the outcome is different. I am sure the fact that I was a LEO had something to do with the lackadaisical way they handled my statement and the fact that the guy was the corner drunk/EDP anyway. they knew his name when I called and gave a physical description. After I pushed him back, had he not about faced, with me trapped in the doorjamb of my vehicle with no physical place to go, and him advancing on an armed man, it could have gotten bad though in all honesty, I knew from jump he was "off" and probably in his 50's. I doubt i would have shot him. but i definitely would have taken him to the ground and cuffed...not an option for everyone I know.


Thanks man, these kinds of first hand experiences, unfortunately provide us with the most insight. That is why a class from Tom Givens is so valuable as he has an extremely unique body of knowledge based off of true first hand accounts by CHP holders to use as factual data. While police dash cams do give us relevant information in some cases for some things, police lethal force encounters rarely are the same dynamics as civilian ones.

 

[SirIsaacNewton]

You were able to get out of a bad situation without anyone getting harmed, I would say you handled everything just fine Spec.

This...

Also there is a lot of processing going on subconsciously (you where analyzing facial cues, body language, etc and where completely unaware of it) that is allowing you to make the right decision and you did. You can't beat a few billion years of evolution....

 

[70116]

Spec, don't get down on yourself or be paranoid. There's a very basic difference between those who deal with these situations as a job and those who don't. Someone who does this every day has gone through training which ingrains a course of action; not only the immediate reaction, but the follow up. The rest of us have a sense of relief after the adrenaline kick and tension release and we don't follow the same course of action after the immediate threat is dealt with. The same applies to the onset where we don't have the same immediate reaction and also don't necessarily have the same courses of action open to us. Responding LEO's react differently to civilians than they do to off-duty LEO's. I was a witness to an incident this week where responding LEO's were ready to act against the 911 caller until two of the people with her showed their gold shields and reiterated the facts.

I believe that if you got an honest response from the non-LEO's who have been in a similar situation, you would find the same things - a slower response, the distraction of the concern for the people you're with, whether or not they have a CCW or training and a LOT of second thoughts about what they did or didn't do, both during the encounter and afterwards.

Recently, I spent days condeming myself for not following up with a 911 call after an incident that we had, when I learned that a subsequent Robbery/mugging occured where the perps were apparently the two individuals I had encountered. I had felt relieved after protecting myself and 3 other defenseless people from a dangerous situation and didn't do the follow up since I was more concerned about getting them clear of he area. I hope I'll handle the follow up better if another situation occurs.