Update on Carry in WMAs

[theonlytalkinggoat]

I have recently started camping and I noticed there are a couple recommended sites that are located on WMAs, around Louisiana, but WMAs seem have different (administrative) laws from state parks and national forests, regarding firearms. I know the 2010 credit card act allowed for citizens to carry in national parks and forests, but federal law still prohibits carry into their buildings. Louisiana Revised Statutes 56:1691 says,

A person who lawfully possesses a firearm may possess or transport such firearm within the boundaries of a state park, state historic site, state preservation area, wildlife management area, or wildlife refuge.

... but there is administrative law prohibiting the carry of firearms into WMAs.

All the posts returned from Google on carrying a firearm for self defense, into a WMA, in Louisiana were pretty old.
Is there any case law where people have challenged the administrative law?
How does the WMA get away with the administrative law that contradicts the RS?

 

[hunter5567]

I would call the LA. WIldlife and Fisheries office in Baton Rouge to get official clarification instead of relying on what Bubba sez on the Interwebz.

 

[Jstudz220]

Kinda crazy all the discrepancies about carrying a pistol into the woods when you’re already likely carrying a rifle or bow. It should be as simple as if you can legally purchase a firearm you can carry when and where you’d like too how you’d like too.

 

[Bigchillin83]

I have always carried on WMA, and had contact with wlf and notified them and they never had and issue what so ever

 

[Bigchillin83]

This has been covered a few times

Conceal Carry on La. WMA's

Be aware of your rights. Don't let anyone tell you that you can not conceal carry on a WMA.

bayoushooter.com

 

[Bigchillin83]

https://bayoushooter.com/attachments/image-jpeg.61579/

 

[Bigchillin83]

First thing that pops up in google search

Old law is still relevant law… as long as it’s not been replaced

 

[Bigchillin83]

But now the new Biden law comming down on all federal land including WMA about NO LEAD, for hunting or fishing or camping might throw a kink in things for selfdefense ammo in pistols… I spoke to wlf agent last week in Venice and they said they have no idea how they were gonna handle this new ban comming down the pipe, and if they were gonna have to switch over to an all copper alloy bullet also… clear as mud

Biden Administration Moves to Ban Lead Ammunition - Sportsmen's Alliance

Following through on their commitment to environmental radicals that it would ban lead on federal public land, today the US Fish and Wildlife Service

sportsmensalliance.org

 

[theonlytalkinggoat]

Thank you for the replies. I have spent a couple days reading the statutes, so I'm not asking lightly.

This has been covered a few times

Conceal Carry on La. WMA's

Be aware of your rights. Don't let anyone tell you that you can not conceal carry on a WMA.

bayoushooter.com

Ah, I had not come across that one, thank you!

What if you don't have a CHP?
A couple paragraphs down, it also says that loaded firearms are not allowed near WMA check points.
How does 56:1691 apply, according to the administrative law? The RS seems pretty clear but it is contradicted by admin law.

I would call the LA. WIldlife and Fisheries office in Baton Rouge to get official clarification instead of relying on what Bubba sez on the Interwebz.

I don't intend to go off what bubba says... for that matter, I don't intend to call and talk to ranger Bob and go entirely by what he has to say, either. I think that was brought up in another post, where someone said something similar. Call and talk to ranger Bob, go camping and have ranger Bill give me a ride in his limo because I had a loaded pistol on my side, in the off-season. That being said, I did email the LDWF to try and get something in writing, but:

Case law or something in writing would be best, if anyone has the ability to get a senator or rep to contact them for clarification.

 

[Bigchillin83]

Like I said I have had 20+ interactions with wlf agents while on WMA in Venice and Sherburne all while carrying either during season or out of season, duck hunting, bow hunting ect, notified all of them about my pistol/permit and the worst I ever got about it was a joke saying you keep yours in the holster and we will also in a joking manner with a laugh.. but again that’s just my interactions not case law

 

[tbone]

First thing that pops up in google search

Old law is still relevant law… as long as it’s not been replaced

View attachment 156552

I wonder if this applies to veterans who can conceal carry but don't actually have a permit.

 

[themcfarland]

But now the new Biden law comming down on all federal land including WMA about NO LEAD, for hunting or fishing or camping might throw a kink in things for selfdefense ammo in pistols… I spoke to wlf agent last week in Venice and they said they have no idea how they were gonna handle this new ban comming down the pipe, and if they were gonna have to switch over to an all copper alloy bullet also… clear as mud

Biden Administration Moves to Ban Lead Ammunition - Sportsmen's Alliance

Following through on their commitment to environmental radicals that it would ban lead on federal public land, today the US Fish and Wildlife Service

sportsmensalliance.org

I find this NO lead thing about stupid. its a run around to make it hard for ammo to be found for gun guys. the good news is, the bullet makers are making headway in solids and there are some great bullets out there now, but at a big price increase..

 

[theonlytalkinggoat]

I wonder if this applies to veterans who can conceal carry but don't actually have a permit.

Can you conceal carry legally, without a permit, now? How do you prove you are a veteran, if stopped? Secret handshake?

 

[Bigchillin83]

Can you conceal carry legally, without a permit, now? How do you prove you are a veteran, if stopped? Secret handshake?

well it was a secret… gee thanks!!! Lol

Either retired/active endorsement on DL, or dd214

 

[tbone]

well it was a secret… gee thanks!!! Lol

Either retired/active endorsement on DL, or dd214

Just to clarify, my DL reports Veteran as a result of DD214. I am not a retired vet.

But the question still is if the regulation applies to Veterans without a permit who can conceal carry when the regulation says "holders of Louisiana concealed handgun permit".

 

[theonlytalkinggoat]

Like I said I have had 20+ interactions with wlf agents while on WMA in Venice and Sherburne all while carrying either during season or out of season, duck hunting, bow hunting ect, notified all of them about my pistol/permit and the worst I ever got about it was a joke saying you keep yours in the holster and we will also in a joking manner with a laugh.. but again that’s just my interactions not case law

I believe you, until you get that one Barney agent....

 

[theonlytalkinggoat]

Update on this update...
I reached out to a Captain at LDWF and they said they would reach out to their legal team. This is what they responded with, this morning:

56: 1691 States:

A person who lawfully possesses a firearm may possess or transport such firearm within the boundaries of a state park, state historic site, state preservation area, wildlife management area, or wildlife refuge.

As it relates to title 76, You still can possess the firearm.

However, they follow with,

For safety purposes in certain areas of the WMA like the camp grounds where you may have other people using that area, or if you are traveling from your deer stand on an ATV, you cannot have it loaded with live ammunition and rounds in the chamber.

... for safety purposes for ALL users of the WMA

Ahhh, yes. For everyone's safety. The LDWF is playing word games. 'Oh, sure, you can still POSESS the firearm, but you can't have any rounds loaded or ready to go.'

Personally, I didn't ask him for clarification for the purpose of hunting. I specifically stated the question was for non-hunting, such as self-defense, when camping or hiking and I don't hold a grudge against the person; they're just doing their job. As a former LEO, I know that many other officers don't fully know the law, how to read or how to apply it; we've all seen the videos on YouTube. This may or may not be the case, but it sounds like more of an anti-2a, Commie-fornia, UN-agenda stance.

I think, however, as citizens, we should bring the LDWF to heel on this. I know not everyone will agree with me, but I would like to avoid a situation before someone gets arrested, goes to jail, has their lives destroyed, wrongfully, and we have to give them a couple million dollars of taxpayer money because of Barney Fife.

I have reached out to my Senator's office, to start the process, to see where this goes, since he is supposed to be a 2a supporter.
‍

 

[Bigchillin83]

Right clear as mudd… as I said about what I do, there’s also a good bit of people at pass a lutre and south pass down in Venice I see open carrying at the camp grounds and while duck hunting, have seen wlf talk to them and they never received any trouble either.. but like you said.. take one Dudley do right to get ya

 

[tbone]

Update on this update...
I reached out to a Captain at LDWF and they said they would reach out to their legal team. This is what they responded with, this morning:

However, they follow with,



Ahhh, yes. For everyone's safety. The LDWF is playing word games. 'Oh, sure, you can still POSESS the firearm, but you can't have any rounds loaded or ready to go.'

Personally, I didn't ask him for clarification for the purpose of hunting. I specifically stated the question was for non-hunting, such as self-defense, when camping or hiking and I don't hold a grudge against the person; they're just doing their job. As a former LEO, I know that many other officers don't fully know the law, how to read or how to apply it; we've all seen the videos on YouTube. This may or may not be the case, but it sounds like more of an anti-2a, Commie-fornia, UN-agenda stance.

I think, however, as citizens, we should bring the LDWF to heel on this. I know not everyone will agree with me, but I would like to avoid a situation before someone gets arrested, goes to jail, has their lives destroyed, wrongfully, and we have to give them a couple million dollars of taxpayer money because of Barney Fife.

I have reached out to my Senator's office, to start the process, to see where this goes, since he is supposed to be a 2a supporter.
‍

This completely ignores the regulation that says you can possess a firearm if you have a concealed handgun permit. And it doesn't say an unloaded firearm.

 

[theonlytalkinggoat]

I heard back from Senator Miguez's office. The secretary said she would reach out to the LDWF for clarification.

Seems like I read somewhere, the SCOTUS has determined that magazines and ammunition are protected under the 2a and are considered arms, as well, although, not "firearms" I believe "firearm" is defined as a serialized receiver or something like that. Because magazines and ammunition are essential for the function of a firearm, they are protected items under the 2a.

@tbone, that's correct. IDK if contacting my senator is the right way to go, but if anyone has any ideas, short of suing the LDWF, I'm down to try. Contact GOA, maybe? Perhaps putting pressure on them by contacting representatives will be enough?