Was accused of trying to make a straw purchase today...

[tunatuk]

I was in Precision today, shooting the breeze w/ Kevin, and it didn't even cross my mind to ask about this. I'll ask him the next time I'm in there, if there isn't a crowd, and they have time to B.S.

I would have let him know that you were a LEO, and just explain the situation to them. They get a fair amount of customers who try and get their girlfriends/wives to buy firearms for them, knowing they won't pass the NICS instant check, and I'm sure they were just CYA.

Not to stereotype, or generalize too much...

Most of the people that do that kind of thing aren't of the same ethnic make-up I am. They normally are black, and appear thugish.

I am whiter than Casper the Friendly Ghost, and dress what many people call "Country"...at least my friends do. Almost always in a Polo shirt and jeans that are not baggy by any means.

I don't go around telling everyone I encounter I'm a cop...it isn't necessary. I don't expect special treatment from my job, so I keep my mouth shut. Would it have made a difference? I'm pretty sure it would have. Is it that big of a deal? Nah. I'm over it. I don't let things bother me for too long.

It was a small thing that just had me aggravated when I posted about it, and once I vented, I was over it. Not a big deal at all.

 

[Bayoupiper]

I am whiter than Casper the Friendly Ghost, and dress what many people call "Country"...at least my friends do. Almost always in a Polo shirt and jeans that are not baggy by any means.

No that doesn't stand out in D'ville now does it?

 

[tunatuk]

****, I can't do anything covert, they can see me from a mile away. I swear I'm so pale I glow in the dark.

 

[gunz4me]

****, I can't do anything covert, they can see me from a mile away. I swear I'm so pale I glow in the dark.

Man, I saw this dude who looked just like you at Sherburne several months back! I think he was an albino Liberian freedom fighter though

Getting back on topic, I purchased a L1A1 and gave it to my uncle as a gift after the novelty of owning an inch pattern FAL wore off. Basically, I wanted to standardize magazines because it sucked big time when I went to the range with the inch pattern mags and the metric FALs. So, did I make a straw purchase?

 

[tunatuk]

Man, I saw this dude who looked just like you at Sherburne several months back! I think he was an albino Liberian freedom fighter though

Getting back on topic, I purchased a L1A1 and gave it to my uncle as a gift after the novelty of owning an inch pattern FAL wore off. Basically, I wanted to standardize magazines because it sucked big time when I went to the range with the inch pattern mags and the metric FALs. So, did I make a straw purchase?

Y'know, you're not the first person to mention this Albino Monrovian Freedom Fighter at Sherburne. Was he there leading a tactics seminar or marksmanship seminar? I bet he had his body armor on too, didn't he?

 

[cajun 22]

Yeah if you register your lower as a pistol you can put a short barrel on it but you can't put a stock or pistol grip.

Just to add to your info, the pistol grip is allowed on an AR lower registered as a pistol in the regular location. You just cannot add a foward grip ahead of the magwell that is not horizontal to the barrel. That would make it an "Any Other Weapon" and cost you a tax stamp.

 

[Narco]

Y'know, you're not the first person to mention this Albino Monrovian Freedom Fighter at Sherburne. Was he there leading a tactics seminar or marksmanship seminar? I bet he had his body armor on too, didn't he?

Long lost cousin?

 

[tmlowe]

Just to add to your info, the pistol grip is allowed on an AR lower registered as a pistol in the regular location. You just cannot add a foward grip ahead of the magwell that is not horizontal to the barrel. That would make it an "Any Other Weapon" and cost you a tax stamp.

I believe that would make it a SBR. Someone correct me if I am wrong though.

 

[Richard in LA]

I believe that would make it a SBR. Someone correct me if I am wrong though.

adding a vertical fore grip to a pistol is a no-no unless registered as an AOW. SBR is still a rifle with a stock, but is NFA registered to have a barrel less than 16", and can have a vertical fore grip.

AroundLSU is very knowledgeable about the Class III stuff, and I'm sure he meant vertical grip when he typed pistol grip

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


U.S. Department of Justice

Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco,
Firearms and Explosives


Washington, DC 20226


Adding a Vertical Fore Grip to a Handgun

“Handgun” is defined under Federal law to mean, in part, a firearm which has a short stock and is designed to be held and fired by the use of a single hand…. Gun Control Act of 1968, 18 U.S.C. § 921(a)(29).

Under an implementing regulation of the National Firearms Act (NFA), 27 C.F.R. § 479.11, “pistol” is defined as a weapon originally designed, made, and intended to fire a projectile (bullet) from one or more barrels when held in one hand, and having (a) a chamber(s) as an integral part(s) of, or permanently aligned with, the bore(s); and (b) a short stock designed to be gripped by one hand and at an angle to and extending below the line of the bore(s).

The NFA further defines the term “any other weapon” (AOW) as any weapon or device capable of being concealed on the person from which a shot can be discharged through the energy of an explosive, a pistol or revolver having a barrel with a smooth bore designed or redesigned to fire a fixed shotgun shell, weapons with combination shotgun and rifle barrels 12 inches or more, less than 18 inches in length, from which only a single discharge can be made from either barrel without manual reloading, and shall include any such weapon which may be readily restored to fire. Such term shall not include a pistol or revolver having a rifled bore, or rifled bores, or weapons designed, made, or intended to be fired from the shoulder and not capable of firing fixed ammunition. 26 U.S.C. § 5845(e).

ATF has long held that by installing a vertical fore grip on a handgun, the handgun is no longer designed to be held and fired by the use of a single hand. Therefore, if individuals install a vertical fore grip on a handgun, they are “making” a firearm requiring registration with ATF’s NFA Branch. Making an unregistered “AOW” is punishable by a fine and 10 years’ imprisonment. Additionally, possession of an unregistered “AOW” is also punishable by fine and 10 years’ imprisonment.

To lawfully add a vertical fore grip to a handgun, a person must make an appropriate application on ATF Form 1, “Application to Make and Register a Firearm.” The applicant must submit the completed form, along with a fingerprint card bearing the applicant’s fingerprints; a photograph; and $200.00. The application will be reviewed by the NFA Branch. If the applicant is not prohibited from possessing a firearm under Federal, State, or local law, and possession of an “AOW” is not prohibited in the applicant’s State of residence, the form will be approved. Only then may the person add a vertical fore grip to the designated handgun.

A person may also send the handgun to a person licensed to manufacture NFA weapons. The manufacturer will install the fore grip on the firearm and register the firearm on an ATF Form 2. The manufacturer can then transfer the firearm back to the individual on an ATF Form 4, which results in a $5.00 transfer tax. If the manufacturer is out of State, the NFA Branch will need a clarification letter submitted with the ATF Form 4 so that the NFA Branch Examiner will know the circumstances of the transfer. Questions can be directed to the NFA Branch or the Firearms Technology Branch.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

[tmlowe]

Ahh I forgot about the stock.

 

[echo5golf]

Yeah man, I haven't had good experiences with the people that work there or the management. Kevin is the only person there who seems to know much about anything and most of the rest of the people I've met are arrogant and unfriendly, including the girls that work there. Almost everyone else acts like they've got a problem with every person that walks through the door, or like they are so intelligent, and well informed, when it comes to guns that they can have a "F*** Y**" attitude towards their customers and clientele. I wish I could say better things about the place, really do...been shooting there for years, long before these guys owned/ran it and I never had a problem until they took it over.
If there was a better option I would never set foot in that place again. I've taken rude comments and blatant disrespect from people working there too many times.
Its the only option I really have in BR as a civy for a decent place to shoot, so I'll continue shooting there until my membership expires or one of the guys reads this and bans me from the place...whichever comes first.

My tone is a direct reflection of you attitude

Every one loves it when you throw in your two cents. No body appreciates the **** talking on a forum, everyone can see it and no one cares. I could sit here all day and type horrible degrading things about other people, especially you, but I am grown adult. If you are going to hide behind firewalls and change your user name every time you **** someone off, that’s your problem. If you don’t have anything good to say, don’t say anything. Pretty much, if you wouldn’t say it to someone’s face, then it probably shouldn’t be said at all. I’m sorry you had a bad experience. Get off your soap box. We all just got a notification from Spanky saying “I was contacted by a sponsor who, in the same breath praised the site for the business he got, spoke of members who come into his shop and speak badly upon other members of the site because of their lack of ... well, call it respect, tact.” If you don’t like the range, then don’t go there. If you want to shoot, go to the range, (slide locked to the rear) pay your $15.00 dollars and have a good time. Keep the negative opinions to yourself. Also in the future when you plan to talk down about firing ranges, get your story straight, before you fire off some BS an exaggerate it out of proportion.

Back to the real issue on hand and the entire reason this string got started. Straw purchases are a gray area. I can’t sit here and tell you what you should have done, because I would be telling felons what to do. People try it all the time. You said you had credentials. That’s great. A badge or a CCP is not going to make someone look the other way. Every time you buy a gun, no matter who you are, the person selling it too you is judging you. It really is a cover your ass kind of situation. How do I know you are not ATF? How do I know you are not a felon and you just got turned away somewhere else? There was nothing wrong with you buying the lower receiver and giving it as a gift. I know it seems stupid, but that little piece of metal is important to the range and the ATF. Get the store to put the lower to the side and buy a gift certificate for you buddy for the exact amount plus tax and tell him his lower is waiting for him at the store. There is nothing wrong with going the legal route. I am not trying to give you **** here. I am just explaining the easy legal, hassle free way to purchase a firearm. The range really does want your business. Seriously, good on you for helping your friend build an AR-15. Gun enthusiasts can be some of the finest people you meet. You just have to remember that this is a firearm you are buying, not a piece of metal. People buy each other firearms as gifts all the time. Every situation is different. This was one of those “grey areas”. Next time, put yourself in gun sellers shoes. Once again, I am sorry you had a bad experience.

 

[chibajoe]

My tone is a direct reflection of you attitude

Every one loves it when you throw in your two cents. No body appreciates the **** talking on a forum, everyone can see it and no one cares. I could sit here all day and type horrible degrading things about other people, especially you, but I am grown adult. If you are going to hide behind firewalls and change your user name every time you **** someone off, that’s your problem. If you don’t have anything good to say, don’t say anything. Pretty much, if you wouldn’t say it to someone’s face, then it probably shouldn’t be said at all. I’m sorry you had a bad experience. Get off your soap box. We all just got a notification from Spanky saying “I was contacted by a sponsor who, in the same breath praised the site for the business he got, spoke of members who come into his shop and speak badly upon other members of the site because of their lack of ... well, call it respect, tact.” If you don’t like the range, then don’t go there. If you want to shoot, go to the range, (slide locked to the rear) pay your $15.00 dollars and have a good time. Keep the negative opinions to yourself. Also in the future when you plan to talk down about firing ranges, get your story straight, before you fire off some BS an exaggerate it out of proportion.

Back to the real issue on hand and the entire reason this string got started. Straw purchases are a gray area. I can’t sit here and tell you what you should have done, because I would be telling felons what to do. People try it all the time. You said you had credentials. That’s great. A badge or a CCP is not going to make someone look the other way. Every time you buy a gun, no matter who you are, the person selling it too you is judging you. It really is a cover your ass kind of situation. How do I know you are not ATF? How do I know you are not a felon and you just got turned away somewhere else? There was nothing wrong with you buying the lower receiver and giving it as a gift. I know it seems stupid, but that little piece of metal is important to the range and the ATF. Get the store to put the lower to the side and buy a gift certificate for you buddy for the exact amount plus tax and tell him his lower is waiting for him at the store. There is nothing wrong with going the legal route. I am not trying to give you **** here. I am just explaining the easy legal, hassle free way to purchase a firearm. The range really does want your business. Seriously, good on you for helping your friend build an AR-15. Gun enthusiasts can be some of the finest people you meet. You just have to remember that this is a firearm you are buying, not a piece of metal. People buy each other firearms as gifts all the time. Every situation is different. This was one of those “grey areas”. Next time, put yourself in gun sellers shoes. Once again, I am sorry you had a bad experience.

Wow, so the part about him helping his friend's wife buy her husband a gift completely slipped past you, huh?

 

[Manimal]

Actually, grown adult, I'm very friendly every time I go in there. I don't think a single person on this forum that has ever met me will say that I have a bad attitude towards people. I'm a year long member at the range as well. I've brought about a dozen people in there over the last year or so for them to shoot for the first time. Many return, some of those returning people don't go a 3rd time b/c they don't like the attitudes of people there.

My pictures are on this forum, where I'm a contributing member and participate in events with other members frequently. The last thing I am doing is hiding behind a computer or a firewall. I'll give my opinions as I see fit, you're welcome to bitch about them.

Take your own advice, grown adult.

Every one loves it when you throw in your two cents. No body appreciates the **** talking on a forum, everyone can see it and no one cares. I could sit here all day and type horrible degrading things about other people, especially you, but I am grown adult.

 

[Born4spd]

What a first post. lol

 

[tunatuk]

My tone is a direct reflection of you attitude

Back to the real issue on hand and the entire reason this string got started. Straw purchases are a gray area. I can’t sit here and tell you what you should have done, because I would be telling felons what to do. People try it all the time. You said you had credentials. That’s great. A badge or a CCP is not going to make someone look the other way. Every time you buy a gun, no matter who you are, the person selling it too you is judging you. It really is a cover your ass kind of situation. How do I know you are not ATF? How do I know you are not a felon and you just got turned away somewhere else? There was nothing wrong with you buying the lower receiver and giving it as a gift. I know it seems stupid, but that little piece of metal is important to the range and the ATF. Get the store to put the lower to the side and buy a gift certificate for you buddy for the exact amount plus tax and tell him his lower is waiting for him at the store. There is nothing wrong with going the legal route. I am not trying to give you **** here. I am just explaining the easy legal, hassle free way to purchase a firearm. The range really does want your business. Seriously, good on you for helping your friend build an AR-15. Gun enthusiasts can be some of the finest people you meet. You just have to remember that this is a firearm you are buying, not a piece of metal. People buy each other firearms as gifts all the time. Every situation is different. This was one of those “grey areas”. Next time, put yourself in gun sellers shoes. Once again, I am sorry you had a bad experience.

Yes, I know my credentials wouldn't have had anyone look the other way. Hence why I did not even bother bringing them out. Like I said earlier in this thread, I do not expect special treatment because I am LEO.

What's funny, is you were literally trying to induce a straw purchase by having me do the paperwork. My friends wife would have been the one paying for the rifle, with me filling out the paperwork, and her husband would have been recieving it as the gift. I am only involved because neither of them have ANY knowledge of an AR, minus him shooting mine once.

I never said yall were in the wrong, because legally, yall were in the right. You can refuse service to anyone, and I don't blame you for what you did. I just found it aggravating that you would not even hear what I had to say. You were listening sure, but it went in one ear and out the other.

Either way, my buddy's wife got a stripped lower somewhere else, for less money than what you were charging, without tax, and without the hassle of paperwork. I have started building it already, and my buddy is going to be quite surprised on Saturday.

I didn't base my comment on me not giving any business to you guys off of this one incident, it seems that every time I go in there, something goes wrong that causes an aggravation to me. So from here on out, I'm not going. I won't try and persuade other people from not going, because I hear that other people have good experiences all the time. But it's just my luck that I don't.

 

[Born4spd]

I like precision.

First time i went they eyeballed me. I would have too.

Second time i went, i talked to the guy at the counter for a while, he was carrying a S&W 1911 cocked and locked.

Sometimes you just gotta talk to them and get a conversation going, people like to make friends.

Yes, i know. Im slightly Off topic.

 

[W1nds0rF0x]

My tone is a direct reflection of you attitude

My tone is a direct reflection of you attitude

My attitude is a direct reflection of my experiences. I would never assume to know his thoughts, but what has been said in this thread is not as I see it directly opposed to the admin's plea to be civil. I offered my sincere opinion on how I personally felt and your little rant certainly will not change that, it in fact confirms my feeling of how *I* have been treated when going to what is apparently your establishment. Personally if I were reading such comments about how people had been treated when coming to my business I'd be scrambling to do anything I could to change that, not ranting about the people making the comments. I would also like to say that the comment about hiding behind a firewall or a user name sounds much like a dare. I have zero problem telling you that every time I've been to Precision I have felt unwelcome and looked at / treated suspiciously.

 

[LouisianaCarry]

Hey, echo5golf- you aren't really under the impression that stripped lowers have to be registered with anyone are you?

 

[dragginaknee]

echo5golf must be an owner or employee of precision!

His first post, shows the truth about what the other members are talking about the attitude in that place!

 

[cajun 22]

adding a vertical fore grip to a pistol is a no-no unless registered as an AOW. SBR is still a rifle with a stock, but is NFA registered to have a barrel less than 16", and can have a vertical fore grip.

AroundLSU is very knowledgeable about the Class III stuff, and I'm sure he meant vertical grip when he typed pistol grip

You are correct about aroundlsu's knowledge of NFA goodies. He writes good info here. Just wanted the ones that didn't know for sure to understand. He has his goodies already and I am waiting on my first four of them.