Why is a $3K 1911 better than a $389 Glock 19?

[ammac]

I wish someone would tell me what makes a $3K 1911 worth $3K.

JR1572

This isn't the same/original question, but there is a big difference from a stock $1,000 1911 and a fully custom $3,000 version. Basically, it's the amount of time spent by a gunsmith working a custom gun into its precise fit and tolerance package. Not to mention the trigger jobs, barrel upgrades, etc..of a custom package. On the flip side, you have the assembly line version where each pistol is assembled, examined and test fired. We can ping pong all day with examples of each finished product's reliability and function, but it comes down to subjectivity.

Same answer for what makes said 1911 better than a G19. I own both. Shoot both and would stake my life with both. Currently, I run a $3,000 2011 for competition and see plenty of Glock shooters doing just as well as the 2011 shooters. The gun doesn't make a shooter any better, but a tuned 1911/2011 is clearly the standard by which all others are measured. The said Glock shooters do all they can to upgrade their plastic gun to shoot like a 1911/2011. If a Glock were the "better" gun, why aren't 1911/2011 owners trying to make their pistols more like Glocks?

Just my opinion.

 

[Jack]

Difference being you are playing a game

 

[Vanilla Gorilla]

This isn't the same/original question, but there is a big difference from a stock $1,000 1911 and a fully custom $3,000 version. Basically, it's the amount of time spent by a gunsmith working a custom gun into its precise fit and tolerance package. Not to mention the trigger jobs, barrel upgrades, etc..of a custom package. On the flip side, you have the assembly line version where each pistol is assembled, examined and test fired. We can ping pong all day with examples of each finished product's reliability and function, but it comes down to subjectivity.

Same answer for what makes said 1911 better than a G19. I own both. Shoot both and would stake my life with both. Currently, I run a $3,000 2011 for competition and see plenty of Glock shooters doing just as well as the 2011 shooters. The gun doesn't make a shooter any better, but a tuned 1911/2011 is clearly the standard by which all others are measured. The said Glock shooters do all they can to upgrade their plastic gun to shoot like a 1911/2011. If a Glock were the "better" gun, why aren't 1911/2011 owners trying to make their pistols more like Glocks?

Just my opinion.

Where as in the Shoot People in the Face World 1911 Shooters are doing everything possible to turn their Pistols into Glocks; Extended Mags, "Loser" Guns, Improved Feed Ramp Geometry, more rugged finshes etc.

 

[BIGGREEN]

I think an appropriate analogy goes something like this; Why would you choose a HOTT, high maintenance, 36-24-36 WOMAN when a 5'2", 202 lb, 42-38-52,will do the same thing (maybe even better). The reason I own mine (over 40 of them, 1911s not women...LOL) is just that. STYLE!!! That and I don't like the sound "SPROINGGG". I have seen WAYYY too many Tupperware guns in duty to argue their reliability,etc. When was the last time someone asked you to fondle your G19. When I carry a high-end 1911 to a gun show, etc I CONSTANTLY get asked to see it. I am not planning on getting into a gunfight where I will need more than the 8 that I carry and HONESTLY most people aren't mentally able to stay in a gunfight that long (but that was a previous thread). And to those who argue the 9MM vs .45 capabilites, you can keep your Ammo Manufacturer's hype in your nightstand for your second and third shots, I will rely on my first hand knowledge on the stopping power of a single .45 bullet.

 

[Peacemaker]

It's an old question that has always caused some people to scratch their head.. I see it like this.. Some folks can own a Glock and be happy because they will never own a $3000.00 Wilson 1911. If ever you own both then you will see the obvious differences..

Sure they both go bang, yes for the most part they are both equally accurate.. It's not until you hold one and look at it close you won't understand.. With that being said, some folks won't pay for extreme quality, they will settle for run of the mill..

I have both types of pistol, and I will say, if anyone thinks a box stock Glock can compare to a custom Wilson pistol they don't know what they are taking about..

 

[Gus McCrae]

Where as in the Shoot People in the Face World 1911 Shooters are doing everything possible to turn their Pistols into Glocks; Extended Mags, "Loser" Guns, Improved Feed Ramp Geometry, more rugged finshes etc.

I'm not trying to turn my gun into a loser gun like a Glock.

 

[Neil09]

Well then why can't the glock compare?

 

[Peacemaker]

Some folks want quality over quantity.. In my earlier post I said 'equally accurate' I am trying to say they both can shoot accurately in the hands of good shooter, but a custom Wilson pistol is far more accurate than a box stock Glock.

 

[JWG223]

I asked this in another thread that seems to have met it's untimely demise. I'm curious to know if there is a reasonable explanation as to why.

I've never owned a 1911. I've shot a few, and it was just like shooting any other pistol. I also don't like a manual safety or a grip safety on a pistol.

Also, I'm not looking to hear about how awesome the 1911 is at gun golf games. Telling me how awesome a tuned gamer gun kills cardboard and steel with reloads doesn't help answer my question. I would prefer to hear for someone who carries one daily and trains regularly with one.

Thanks.

JR1572

I have owned a Les Baer TRS in factory Hard Chrome, and a Wilson Tactical Supergrade. I sold the Baer for $1K to my Dad, and Wilson Combat bought their problem child back. I also shot my Dad's Colt which has had some work done to it at Clark's. After they fixed the problems they caused trying to do a trigger job on it, it did okay until it broke the slide-stop and began jamming as well. I replaced the slide-stop and it works, according to my Dad. I have not shot it again, or any 1911 for that matter. They suck.

I now own a SIG P226 in 357, and it is plenty accurate (1.17" at 25 yards, 5-shots, Gold Dot).
I also own a G19. It doesn't jam like hte 1911's always did, and it hasn't fallen apart like the Wilson and the machining doesn't have burrs that slice my fingers to bleeding like the Baer.

1911's suck, and that's my personal experience with several high-end guns and my other "pedestrian" guns.

 

[JWG223]

It's an old question that has always caused some people to scratch their head.. I see it like this.. Some folks can own a Glock and be happy because they will never own a $3000.00 Wilson 1911. If ever you own both then you will see the obvious differences..

Sure they both go bang, yes for the most part they are both equally accurate.. It's not until you hold one and look at it close you won't understand.. With that being said, some folks won't pay for extreme quality, they will settle for run of the mill..

I have both types of pistol, and I will say, if anyone thinks a box stock Glock can compare to a custom Wilson pistol they don't know what they are taking about..

I've owned both, and I kept the one that doesn't **** the bed every time I took it out of the holster. $4,000 Wilson, $2,000 Les Baer, $400 G19. Guess which one could go "bang" without stopping until the mag ran dry? Hint...I don't own the others.

PS. If you want "fine quality", the Wilson has it as long as you don't mind the cheap thing falling apart (literally) under hard use. The new sights they use are not press-fit, and they loosen easily. I shot mine loose twice in less than 1,000 rounds. Also, the armor-tuff is crap. It chips off and exposes the base parkerizing each time the weapon cycles and a casing bounces off the top of the slide. It sure does have very nice tolerances and look good when new, though. Wilson's CS is tops, also. This, among other issues, got my Supergrade bought back minus a $250 re-stocking fee.

As to the Baer? It's a piece of crap and Les Baer is a dick. Here are pictures of what $1800-ish gets you from Les Baer:

They said as long as it was accurate, this kind of workmanship and the jamming well past the 500 round "break-in" wasn't an issue. Fail. I hated the gun, but my Dad likes 1911's "just 'cause", so I dumped it for $1K and told him not to ever rely on it for anything but looking pretty unless he takes it apart.

 

[Jack]

When was the last time someone asked you to fondle your G19. When I carry a high-end 1911 to a gun show, etc I CONSTANTLY get asked to see it. I am not planning on getting into a gunfight where I will need more than the 8 that I carry and HONESTLY most people aren't mentally able to stay in a gunfight that long (but that was a previous thread). And to those who argue the 9MM vs .45 capabilites, you can keep your Ammo Manufacturer's hype in your nightstand for your second and third shots, I will rely on my first hand knowledge on the stopping power of a single .45 bullet.

I think this was what I had in my head, but I didn't want to be a dick and say it unless I was wrong. It seems like 1911's are generally for men who like attention from other men at gun shows/ranges, think that 8 rounds will solve any problem, and don't look at real world situations, or modern loadings in calibers other than the 45.

 

[Vanilla Gorilla]

Some folks want quality over quantity.. In my earlier post I said 'equally accurate' I am trying to say they both can shoot accurately in the hands of good shooter, but a custom Wilson pistol is far more accurate than a box stock Glock.

BS lemme know when you wanna put your Money where your mouth is. We can go shooters or ransom rest up to you.

 

[speedster]

BS lemme know when you wanna put your Money where your mouth is. We can go shooters or ransom rest up to you.

I'm not on anyones "side" here, but he did say that a custom wilson is more accurate than a stock glock. He did not say he was more accurate with a custom wilson than VG is with a stock glock. So a proper test would be to fix each gun to a solid base at a set distance and pop off a grouping from each mythbusters style!

 

[oleheat]

It would be kind of cool to get a group of non-biased (good luck) high-end shooters to run both (each shooter running both) of them and see the results.

 

[Vanilla Gorilla]

I said Ransom Rest was cool. "Custom" doesn't mean accurized. Yes a 1911 tuned for Bullseyes or Bowling Pins will be more accurate a "Custom" from Wilson, Baer, Brown etc not so much. People feel more accurate because the SA Trigger on 1911s is excellent and will mask poor fundamentals.

 

[speedster]

Ah my apologies vanilla. I never knew they were called ransom rests and assumed you were talking about some kind bench rest position.

It would be cool to get a group of A+ shooters together and see results though. Maybe do a BBQ after with some friendly beer drinking and BS banter.


Sent from me my phone and I.

 

[jmcrawf1]

I'm not on anyones "side" here, but he did say that a custom wilson is more accurate than a stock glock. He did not say he was more accurate with a custom wilson than VG is with a stock glock. So a proper test would be to fix each gun to a solid base at a set distance and pop off a grouping from each mythbusters style!

Ie. Ransom rest, like VG said.

 

[doc ace]

I think this was what I had in my head, but I didn't want to be a dick and say it unless I was wrong. It seems like 1911's are generally for men who like attention from other men at gun shows/ranges, think that 8 rounds will solve any problem, and don't look at real world situations, or modern loadings in calibers other than the 45.

Jack, wow, my thoughts exactly. Really similar to my Dad's mid life crisis buying first a 1969 Chevelle SS then a 1952 Corvette. I keep hearing excuses as to why it's acceptable to purchase a $3000 1911 that has to be constantly Tuned (wtf who's got time when lead flies both ways to stop and think if they've tuned that bad boy lately).

The Glock is a serious combat pistol.

Kind of scary that many 1911 owners compare Glocks to fat women and ugly things; very reminiscent of scary... Black... Guns? It's the same fear many have when being handed an AR and them saying oh those black rifles are sh*t. They jam all of the time, when I've seen less failures if any on the AR platform. They are afraid of new things. It terrifies them having to move on to something so revolutionary, and very good thing, out of arrogance maybe? It just seems like the $3000 mark sets them in a members only club, and look at us. I'd rather buy a bass boat or a couple of decent ARs for that much money, rather than invest in something that requires that level of tuning to remain combat effective.

 

[Jack]

And accuracy differences that I'm not sure exist, much less are achievable by many, if any, of the shooters here.

 

[Gus McCrae]

Damn. I figure we'd all know who had the biggest pecker by now. Someone forget to bring a tape measure or something?