I've been seeing this alot lately and it has me curious enough to ask. Whats the rationale behind a higher trade value than sale price? Seems to me that the value is the value and it kinda falls in the realm of "trade offers must be in my favor". I'm not singling anyone out or trying to sully your good name so try not to make this a flame war. I'm actually curious about this trend in classified listings.
Trade Value vs Sale Price
- Thread starter Redd508
- Start date
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This^!
And, if you want to get rid of something, eg trade it away, you are trying to replace that with something of supposed or perceived equal value. How are you ever going to get tit for tat unless you are swapping the exact same items; or items that have the exact same "Blue Book" if you will, value.
Trades often seem to be conciliatory in nature to getting cash! People know, or at least feel, when they are going to have a tough time selling an item outright for cash. Hence the ol' "will consider trade."
Remember! You can always say, "No thanks!"
But trade value is typically lower than cash price. I get that ppl can ask to trade a hi point 9mm for a tricked out Larue so i'm not trying to belabor that point. Im curious if theres a legitimate reasoning behind the idea or if its sonething else. I dont see the car analogy as apples to apples.
CUJOHUNTER
EARPLUGS??
Trade Value = Fantasy
Retail Value = Double Fantasy
Another man's trash is another man's treasure or the reverse is always the determining factor in whether a deal happens or not. Perceived value and aggressive pricing is what usually happens. Many folks like to try to justify the relationship between the two only to find their post lingering for weeks, maybe months. Actual market value for non collector, everyday run of the mill vanilla pieces is usually determined by what the buyer is willing to pay. Just like in the car business, at least 90% of it, price sells. Just like any blue book value....it's only a guide.... that's it.
Retail Value = Double Fantasy
Another man's trash is another man's treasure or the reverse is always the determining factor in whether a deal happens or not. Perceived value and aggressive pricing is what usually happens. Many folks like to try to justify the relationship between the two only to find their post lingering for weeks, maybe months. Actual market value for non collector, everyday run of the mill vanilla pieces is usually determined by what the buyer is willing to pay. Just like in the car business, at least 90% of it, price sells. Just like any blue book value....it's only a guide.... that's it.
what most people don't consider is that if I say I want to trade my hi point for a colt AR-15, what I'm saying is: This is the gun im getting rid of, and that is the gun I want next. I obviously have cash/ammo/stuff to make up the difference...
The idiots that say "WTT Hi point looking for custom SBR build or AK" are just looking for a moron. Kind of like people asking $800 for M&P sports or $1300 for bushmasters. Just laugh and click to the next page.
The idiots that say "WTT Hi point looking for custom SBR build or AK" are just looking for a moron. Kind of like people asking $800 for M&P sports or $1300 for bushmasters. Just laugh and click to the next page.
alpinehyperlite
Well-Known Member
Purchase or trade, 99% of people on here ask new or more than new prices for guns/parts/ammo.
Trade value is less for the traded-in product. Unless the stars align, the guy that has what you want doesn't want the crap that you have. Everybody wants cash. Cash is worth more than "value" of a traded product because it enables the holder of the cash to immediately go out and buy what he wants. It takes time, effort and often money to turn an unwanted item into money. The advertised product typically is the desired product, while the traded product is not. Or simply the guy offering a trade is looking to obtain the advertised product without having to go through the hassle of selling his own stuff. In exchange for that hassle, the trader receives less value.
Thus, if someone was advertising a gun for $500 cash, it would make sense that he would want $600 in "trade value" instead to make the trade (for the stuff he presumably does not want) worthwhile.
There are several types of trades, but typically (as mentioned by Emperor), someone says "I'll consider trades" in general so that he may more quickly get rid of his advertised item. This is different from, for example "looking to trade X for X" or "looking to trade X, X and cash for X." If someone is trying to trade his junk for something in particular, he should understand that he is not going to get full retail value for his junk.
Thus, if someone was advertising a gun for $500 cash, it would make sense that he would want $600 in "trade value" instead to make the trade (for the stuff he presumably does not want) worthwhile.
There are several types of trades, but typically (as mentioned by Emperor), someone says "I'll consider trades" in general so that he may more quickly get rid of his advertised item. This is different from, for example "looking to trade X for X" or "looking to trade X, X and cash for X." If someone is trying to trade his junk for something in particular, he should understand that he is not going to get full retail value for his junk.
I guess to some extent people see what they want/don't want to see.
I tend to see more items for trade only, while I tend to prefer to trade for CASH both ways.
It's tough enough to satisfy one customer in a transaction let alone two who happen to have what the other is looking for. In a couple instances I have gone out and bought something in order to trade.
I tend to see more items for trade only, while I tend to prefer to trade for CASH both ways.
It's tough enough to satisfy one customer in a transaction let alone two who happen to have what the other is looking for. In a couple instances I have gone out and bought something in order to trade.
Just as with anything else, everyone seems to want something for nothing (literally).
Some will put trade value higher because cash (as mentioned above) is king... JUST like in the car business. You walk on the lot with cash and the old "I will drive it off the lot right now"... and you can save big time. Also, it doesn't seem to matter what is included with any sale either... the viewer sees "Bushmaster AR-15 for $1300" and laughs and clicks to the next page... but it may have a $500 optic sitting on it, or 2000 rounds of ammo, or 20 extra magazines and a bunch of extras. No one considers the cost of "extras". The sellers would benefit more from stripping down these weapons and selling the items separately.
Now, I have seen my share of grazers who will list a basic bare bones AR for well over $1000 when you can go buy the exact same rifle brand new for $800... and those are just idiots who shouldn't be listing their items in the first place. But then I've seen very decent weapons sell for well below what the seller should be getting just to make the sale.
Another bad thing is that those with this disease (black rifle, etc.) are not the most patient buyers (or sellers) in the world. They want that new optic and they want it TODAY!!! So some will take the hit just to get the extra cash to buy what they want TODAY.
There are good deals here and there... but if you go into a sale as a seller, chances are you've looked at items from a buyers perspective at one time or another. SO YOU KNOW how everyone looks at the items listed. If you then choose to sell your item in the same manor, then you should expect the same result! The reverse goes for the buyer.
These are some things to remember for buyers and sellers...
1. Low balling to see if the seller will eventually break, or high balling for a huge profit is supply and demand.
2. OBO means Or Best Offer... where most here don't even entertain offers at all when that is on their listing.
3. OBO means Or Best Offer... it doesn't mean offer someone a "pack of smokes" for their $2000 firearm.
4. List your item based on a reasonable DEPRECIATED value... not what you perceive the value to be and not what someone could purchase the same item for BRAND NEW in a retail store or compared to the most expensive listing on an online store.
5. If you list a hugely inflated item, expect it to sit (lately expect even a low-priced item to sit).
6. Look at EVERYTHING being sold with the item... unlike with cars (they don't care what you have accessorized the vehicles with and it some cases will strip all of the extra garbage off the car... headrest DVD players, rims, etc. because they know they can make more selling them privately) accessories do (and SHOULD) be valued with the weapon. You're still saving as a buyer... saving on tax or shipping, gunsmith costs in some cases depending on what was done, etc.
7. A deal is one thing... taking advantage of someone is another (Applies to buyers and sellers alike)
8. FAIR MARKET VALUE is one thing... a DEAL is another. Selling a New Glock magazine that can be purchased new for $30 in a store for $15 - $20 is Fair Market Value, where selling a USED Glock magazine (if you opened the box, it's used) for $5 - $15 is a deal. It may also depend on the number of items being sold in bulk... If you have 20 Glock Magazines, no one will want them for $200 because they either don't want to do the math... but if you list them for $10 a piece, they start selling.
9. Discount doesn't mean deal. Some buyers here, looking at a slightly used optic for sale here for $110 for instance that is sold in a store for $120 NEW, would rather go to the store and buy the new one for $120 because "That's not a deal!".
10. A deal may be in disguise! I have made purchases and sales here where I've GIVEN a little more just because the seller/buyer were stand-up people. Like throwing in two extra magazines I may have found AFTER the deal was made instead of just listing them after the fact for the extra cash once I sold the item.
In most if not all cases, CASH being the lesser value monetarily, is worth more in satisfaction, saved time and convenience.
I'm sure there's a TON more things that could be listed, but it won't change anything. Some of the things I've outlined above may even contradict one another... but THAT'S HOW CRAZY THE CLASSIFIEDS ARE! Also, I am on some serious cold medication today!
Some will put trade value higher because cash (as mentioned above) is king... JUST like in the car business. You walk on the lot with cash and the old "I will drive it off the lot right now"... and you can save big time. Also, it doesn't seem to matter what is included with any sale either... the viewer sees "Bushmaster AR-15 for $1300" and laughs and clicks to the next page... but it may have a $500 optic sitting on it, or 2000 rounds of ammo, or 20 extra magazines and a bunch of extras. No one considers the cost of "extras". The sellers would benefit more from stripping down these weapons and selling the items separately.
Now, I have seen my share of grazers who will list a basic bare bones AR for well over $1000 when you can go buy the exact same rifle brand new for $800... and those are just idiots who shouldn't be listing their items in the first place. But then I've seen very decent weapons sell for well below what the seller should be getting just to make the sale.
Another bad thing is that those with this disease (black rifle, etc.) are not the most patient buyers (or sellers) in the world. They want that new optic and they want it TODAY!!! So some will take the hit just to get the extra cash to buy what they want TODAY.
There are good deals here and there... but if you go into a sale as a seller, chances are you've looked at items from a buyers perspective at one time or another. SO YOU KNOW how everyone looks at the items listed. If you then choose to sell your item in the same manor, then you should expect the same result! The reverse goes for the buyer.
These are some things to remember for buyers and sellers...
1. Low balling to see if the seller will eventually break, or high balling for a huge profit is supply and demand.
2. OBO means Or Best Offer... where most here don't even entertain offers at all when that is on their listing.
3. OBO means Or Best Offer... it doesn't mean offer someone a "pack of smokes" for their $2000 firearm.
4. List your item based on a reasonable DEPRECIATED value... not what you perceive the value to be and not what someone could purchase the same item for BRAND NEW in a retail store or compared to the most expensive listing on an online store.
5. If you list a hugely inflated item, expect it to sit (lately expect even a low-priced item to sit).
6. Look at EVERYTHING being sold with the item... unlike with cars (they don't care what you have accessorized the vehicles with and it some cases will strip all of the extra garbage off the car... headrest DVD players, rims, etc. because they know they can make more selling them privately) accessories do (and SHOULD) be valued with the weapon. You're still saving as a buyer... saving on tax or shipping, gunsmith costs in some cases depending on what was done, etc.
7. A deal is one thing... taking advantage of someone is another (Applies to buyers and sellers alike)
8. FAIR MARKET VALUE is one thing... a DEAL is another. Selling a New Glock magazine that can be purchased new for $30 in a store for $15 - $20 is Fair Market Value, where selling a USED Glock magazine (if you opened the box, it's used) for $5 - $15 is a deal. It may also depend on the number of items being sold in bulk... If you have 20 Glock Magazines, no one will want them for $200 because they either don't want to do the math... but if you list them for $10 a piece, they start selling.
9. Discount doesn't mean deal. Some buyers here, looking at a slightly used optic for sale here for $110 for instance that is sold in a store for $120 NEW, would rather go to the store and buy the new one for $120 because "That's not a deal!".
10. A deal may be in disguise! I have made purchases and sales here where I've GIVEN a little more just because the seller/buyer were stand-up people. Like throwing in two extra magazines I may have found AFTER the deal was made instead of just listing them after the fact for the extra cash once I sold the item.
In most if not all cases, CASH being the lesser value monetarily, is worth more in satisfaction, saved time and convenience.
I'm sure there's a TON more things that could be listed, but it won't change anything. Some of the things I've outlined above may even contradict one another... but THAT'S HOW CRAZY THE CLASSIFIEDS ARE! Also, I am on some serious cold medication today!
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I do not find that to be true. But there are those people who claim prices are too high but then argue that shipping costs, and transfer fees are not to be factored in... Usually said something like the following:
Potential Buyer: Hey I see you have a gun for sale for 400 but Bud's has it for 300. Would you take 250?
Seller: Gun is NIB and I have 450 in it, I am firm on price. I looked at Buds and they are out of stock on it anyways. How old is that ad?
PB: Well I saw it for sale like 2 years ago. There is no way your gun is worth 450. I can get it for 350 new online.
S: Is that shipped and transferred?
PB: No
S: So after you get it shipped and transferred you will have another 50 bucks in it at the minimum, so the same as what I am asking.
PB: (Brain falls out and has stroke trying to understand the last comment)
I do not put trade values on things as it is never an apples to apples comparison. I leave items open for trade and see what the PB comes up with. If it is something I like then I try to work out a deal. If not I say" no thanks" and politely move on...
How could he have $450 in it if it's NIB? lol... what HE purchased it for is moot as well as the sale ad you saw. What the weapon is worth RIGHT NOW is all that matters. If someone isn't willing to respect DEPRECIATION because they purchased the weapon brand new in 1986 for $1200 and today it's only worth $120 (example), they have some learning to do about market values.
I will say the transfer cost and tax do (and definitely should) play somewhat of a thought when looking at weapons for sale. IMHO.
Those kinds of sellers aren't even worth dealing with. I could profile them, but I won't.
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Speaking of this^: I often am willing to send a seller a desperation offer when I see them sitting on a product for months and dropping the price week after week, but am hesitant to on many occasions because I don't want to come off as a parasite. Not really on guns, but miscellaneous items like range bags, and crap like that. And many times, I don't need the item. I can find a use for it or give it away or whatever.
And the reason I want to offer them that, is you never really know what their motivation for selling is? And in sales, that is a Golden Rule. My rule is; "You don't ask, you won't get!" Hell, they could be so desperate for cash and may be too proud to admit it. I have actually written on my PMs to sellers, that I would buy their item if they just needed to surrender and get whatever for it. But again, that seems parasitic to me.
What do you all think? Is it better to just let the seller languish or offer them something, even if it is perceived as a low ball offer?
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At least in the gun world, many (I reiterate, many), not all; at least know something about what they are purchasing. Try looking for logic when your target buyers are mostly ignorant about the products across the board.
CUJOHUNTER
EARPLUGS??
UOTE=Redd508;1450744]I'm convinced that many are counting on the ignorance of their target market.[/QUOTE]
^^this....always^^
There is always one born every minute. There is no shame in taking advantage of the misinformed or uneducated once in a while. Everybody and anybody can run into a streak of good luck or bad luck at least once in their lifetime.
^^this....always^^
There is always one born every minute. There is no shame in taking advantage of the misinformed or uneducated once in a while. Everybody and anybody can run into a streak of good luck or bad luck at least once in their lifetime.
Figure that the gun was owned for a few weeks. So the actual value of the gun had not changed. And the price was fair, in line with the local market value. PB was just trying to use a 3rd party for some sort "professional values"... I hate buyers like that...
I have sold and bought a bunch of stuff on this forum. I have lowballed and been lowballed. It is just part of the setup. I work on the principle "if you don't ask you won't get"... I have accepted a lowball offer or 2 on stuff that sat around. It is part of the deal. I certainly do not get offended, unless the PB tries some BS like I listed above. Just make an offer, don't bother trying to back up that offer with some sort of "empirical crap"...
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