I'm asking a few hundred more then retail for my vp9 but it's grey and I'm pretty positive it was touched by a German. So it's authentic.
NEW BAYOUSHOOTER SNOW FLAKES, melting fast lol
- Thread starter Bigchillin83
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I'm asking a few hundred more then retail for my vp9 but it's grey and I'm pretty positive it was touched by a German. So it's authentic.
My thoughts:
If you are selling a used gun for retail price, when I can buy at wholesale and get it 'new in box' from my distributor, expect me to scroll past your ad, and possibly chuckle a bit.
If it left the shop it was purchased from, it's used. It may be 'like new', but it'll never be new again. That ship sailed.
The best deals to be found in these classifieds are usually cool old .22 rifles that need some love.
I've a soft spot for those. Old shotguns too.
I already have a few, so y'all keep asking those high prices, I'll keep chuckling, and hang on to my cash a bit longer.
If you are selling a used gun for retail price, when I can buy at wholesale and get it 'new in box' from my distributor, expect me to scroll past your ad, and possibly chuckle a bit.
If it left the shop it was purchased from, it's used. It may be 'like new', but it'll never be new again. That ship sailed.
The best deals to be found in these classifieds are usually cool old .22 rifles that need some love.
I've a soft spot for those. Old shotguns too.
I already have a few, so y'all keep asking those high prices, I'll keep chuckling, and hang on to my cash a bit longer.
I dont mind the used or pricing play...but the moment someone adds "custom work" to the ad, I am done. The YouTube gunsmiths do some amazing "custom" destruction to fire control parts or tolerances regularly. Thats a huge red flag on a used gun.
I had a guy bring a Colt rifle to my shop, for sale, and I pulled it apart and first the bolt wasn't a Colt part, then the barrel wasn't Colt. About the only original part that was Colt was stamped on the lower. He gave some lame excuse on why, or he put another upper on it inadvertently or something. If I didn't know the markings I would have gotten taken.
Used should come with questions. The first being "what have you done to it." If its a safety system or fire control then "Where were you taught how to do that"
YouTube, contrary to popular belief, is not a place that you can learn to properly work on guns.
Duly noted Mag, thx. I need to re-evaluate.
I had a guy who knew what he was doing build me a Custom AR. It's really cool as not one on the market like it.
Prob cause he has been thru Colt, LWRC, and S&W armorers schools and worked full time in an armory
Holy Shizzle, you are the low-baller all of the sellers are always talking about!!!
Just kidding, but I like your style there, you can always offer more, hard to get a seller to take a lower offer!!!
Had guys tell me I should have just bought a S&W 22 AR, it's all the same. That I just like wasting money.Prob cause he has been thru Colt, LWRC, and S&W armorers schools and worked full time in an armory
That is in till they look-hold my AR.
I guess I should post pictures of your fine work.
Everyone who has looked at it kinda dools on it. So I have to keep a cloth and oil handy.
Just on concept here...
If it has not been used, it is new. I don't care if I found it at the north pole, if it has not been used then it is new. So new as a term only applies to usage of said item. I have a hammer in my hammer drawer of my toolbox that is at least 4 yrs old and I have never used it. So it is new as far as usage, but it is 4 yrs old.
Now condition of the item is another thing entirely, said hammer is probably covered in dust, and likely has some marks on it from being in a toolbox drawer with other hammers. But is is still new. So it would be:
NOS, new old stock. Never used, but on the shelf for a while. And condition would have to be listed separately, as the NOS info does not cover condition.
LNIB, like new in box, not sure on how others see this, but i see it as a lightly used item, with all of the stuff including the packaging that it came with when sold new. So it is a gun that may have been shot, but does not have any visible handling marks, no holster wear, etc. Yet again, condition info is likely needed to support the LNIB claim.
NIB new in box, so it is unused in the factory packaging. However it could also be called the following:
Open box, likely new, unused, with all of the original packaging, but it has been handled in some way, usually a display item. So it could be considered used in some way, but if it was a gun it has likely not been fired. So everything at the gun counter at any gun store falls into this category, as those are displayed and have been touch by other men (ewwwww). So when you buy a "new" gun at academy it is open box at least. So how is that any different than buying a NIB gun from an individual that has also fondled it?
As said by others, I like buying used guns for a few reasons. Price is one of them, as I am cheap/thrifty/whatever. I also like buying used guns, from decent people, as they have shot said gun and it likely works. Plus I can inspect the gun and see if there is any obvious signs of extreme wear, or other indicators of possible problems. There is no guarantee that a new gun will work (unless it is Glock, I know Gaston made a deal with the devil) so I prefer a used gun that has some rounds out of it. Plus if you subscribe to "break in" as a concept (I'm on the fence with that, a gun should not require break in to function correctly, but it would be dumb to trust something you have not at least slightly vetted for yourself) the prior owner has "broken it in" to so level with his/her shooting, so you have saved some coin on ammo... Not sure if that makes any sense, but I think it at least holds some water.
If it has not been used, it is new. I don't care if I found it at the north pole, if it has not been used then it is new. So new as a term only applies to usage of said item. I have a hammer in my hammer drawer of my toolbox that is at least 4 yrs old and I have never used it. So it is new as far as usage, but it is 4 yrs old.
Now condition of the item is another thing entirely, said hammer is probably covered in dust, and likely has some marks on it from being in a toolbox drawer with other hammers. But is is still new. So it would be:
NOS, new old stock. Never used, but on the shelf for a while. And condition would have to be listed separately, as the NOS info does not cover condition.
LNIB, like new in box, not sure on how others see this, but i see it as a lightly used item, with all of the stuff including the packaging that it came with when sold new. So it is a gun that may have been shot, but does not have any visible handling marks, no holster wear, etc. Yet again, condition info is likely needed to support the LNIB claim.
NIB new in box, so it is unused in the factory packaging. However it could also be called the following:
Open box, likely new, unused, with all of the original packaging, but it has been handled in some way, usually a display item. So it could be considered used in some way, but if it was a gun it has likely not been fired. So everything at the gun counter at any gun store falls into this category, as those are displayed and have been touch by other men (ewwwww). So when you buy a "new" gun at academy it is open box at least. So how is that any different than buying a NIB gun from an individual that has also fondled it?
As said by others, I like buying used guns for a few reasons. Price is one of them, as I am cheap/thrifty/whatever. I also like buying used guns, from decent people, as they have shot said gun and it likely works. Plus I can inspect the gun and see if there is any obvious signs of extreme wear, or other indicators of possible problems. There is no guarantee that a new gun will work (unless it is Glock, I know Gaston made a deal with the devil) so I prefer a used gun that has some rounds out of it. Plus if you subscribe to "break in" as a concept (I'm on the fence with that, a gun should not require break in to function correctly, but it would be dumb to trust something you have not at least slightly vetted for yourself) the prior owner has "broken it in" to so level with his/her shooting, so you have saved some coin on ammo... Not sure if that makes any sense, but I think it at least holds some water.
On a side note (this is bayou shooter, so 99% of content is not related to the OP) I would really enjoy meeting john_ and magdump in person and sharing a conversation over a meal or some mini golf ... Its hard to get a handle on people's actual personalities over the internet, and I am a people watcher of the highest order. My curiosity streak is a mile wide.
All of my ARs were assmbled by me, never been to a armorers class. I do have punch kits and some armors tools. Im very confident in my ability to buy quality parts and assemble them properly. Now pistols and shotguns and that ruger 22lr pistol from hell can be a different story.Prob cause he has been thru Colt, LWRC, and S&W armorers schools and worked full time in an armory
You are, but we aren't.
The problem with the self assembled bit is that you only know what you know.
Meaning, if Joe Shmo on his YouTube adventure series forgets to mention headspace and throat erosion you would have no idea to go look them up, or mentioning what a reaction rod is, versus clamping your receiver in a vice the 1980's way and torquing it out of spec.
You only know what you know. It may be excellent for you, but I wouldn't buy a gun that's been assembled or tinkered on. Just my preference because I have seen what people can do with a lack of knowledge.
I Check the headspace when its loaded. If the round chanbers its gtg if the bcg wont chamber and stick out the back of the reciever its too tight and frankly im not equiped to remove material from the chamber. The barrel will go back to the factory. But in 40 years ive never had that experience.
Use "GO" only or "GO/NOGO" ?
You check it with extractor in or out ?
And the "remove material from the chamber" part is exactly what i'm referring to in my post.
Go and no go gauges are certainly a good idea if you plan to do any ar assembly, and are needed if you plan to dive into ak building (or anything else with a pressed in barrel that you are building from new parts).
I can understand both sides of this, the average ar assembly guy puts new parts together and "trusts" that they are in spec enough to function. Same guy likely has minimal means to measure or check any of these tolerances, but as the old saying goes "the proof in the pudding is in the eating" so if it goes bang a few times then good to go!!!
Now a properly trained and experienced (note that experience matters, all the training in the world won't cover what actually comes up in the real.) gunsmith will have the means and knowledge to be able to check parts prior to assembly and weed out bad parts or repair any issues that come up. So I can see a gunsmith not wanting to be involved with someone else's work as they know what problems MIGHT be there.
I put this down to what I call "machinist mentality". I am not a machinist, I know some of them, I own machinist tools and measuring equipment, I have machined stuff using those tools and I have done a good job, but I am still not a machinist. A machinist approaches the job at hand with a view of tolerances that a layperson just does not appreciate. They will do lengthy investigations and truly understand what is going on before they do anything. To a bystander they may appear slow and tedious, but in actuality they are very methodical and precise. I can imagine most gunsmiths need to have at least some of this "machinist mentality" in order to properly diagnose and work on guns, especially the problem ones. I have fixed all kinds of problem guns, built stuff from loose parts and assembled many ars. I have run into all kinds of out of spec parts, so that is a thing.
Does the average ar build require a person with "machinist mentality"? I don't think it does, as the parts are "usually" good to go, and the pudding is edible at the conclusion. Is the ar that a true gunsmith assembles any better? Well, it likely has been checked over better at bare minimum, so yes. If that ultimately makes any difference is up to speculation, but I am sure most people feel better when a "pro" has had their hands on the situation.
I certainly have bought plenty of home built ars. I have always gone over them thoroughly before use. I have found all kinds of issues. I have also found issues with factory built guns. It happens.
I have never been to an armorers course, I have been schooled by a few armorers on certain platforms. And I have watched plenty of vids on just about every platform, hundreds if not thousands of hours in fact. I take it all with a grain of salt, and plenty of what i have seen i do not agree with. I have met gunsmiths who work on guns for a living with less knowledge than I, and I have met gunsmiths who know more than I ever will. I would certainly like to know more.
I can understand both sides of this, the average ar assembly guy puts new parts together and "trusts" that they are in spec enough to function. Same guy likely has minimal means to measure or check any of these tolerances, but as the old saying goes "the proof in the pudding is in the eating" so if it goes bang a few times then good to go!!!
Now a properly trained and experienced (note that experience matters, all the training in the world won't cover what actually comes up in the real.) gunsmith will have the means and knowledge to be able to check parts prior to assembly and weed out bad parts or repair any issues that come up. So I can see a gunsmith not wanting to be involved with someone else's work as they know what problems MIGHT be there.
I put this down to what I call "machinist mentality". I am not a machinist, I know some of them, I own machinist tools and measuring equipment, I have machined stuff using those tools and I have done a good job, but I am still not a machinist. A machinist approaches the job at hand with a view of tolerances that a layperson just does not appreciate. They will do lengthy investigations and truly understand what is going on before they do anything. To a bystander they may appear slow and tedious, but in actuality they are very methodical and precise. I can imagine most gunsmiths need to have at least some of this "machinist mentality" in order to properly diagnose and work on guns, especially the problem ones. I have fixed all kinds of problem guns, built stuff from loose parts and assembled many ars. I have run into all kinds of out of spec parts, so that is a thing.
Does the average ar build require a person with "machinist mentality"? I don't think it does, as the parts are "usually" good to go, and the pudding is edible at the conclusion. Is the ar that a true gunsmith assembles any better? Well, it likely has been checked over better at bare minimum, so yes. If that ultimately makes any difference is up to speculation, but I am sure most people feel better when a "pro" has had their hands on the situation.
I certainly have bought plenty of home built ars. I have always gone over them thoroughly before use. I have found all kinds of issues. I have also found issues with factory built guns. It happens.
I have never been to an armorers course, I have been schooled by a few armorers on certain platforms. And I have watched plenty of vids on just about every platform, hundreds if not thousands of hours in fact. I take it all with a grain of salt, and plenty of what i have seen i do not agree with. I have met gunsmiths who work on guns for a living with less knowledge than I, and I have met gunsmiths who know more than I ever will. I would certainly like to know more.
I take the firing pin out and slam it home. Lol i kid. Dont try this kids.
Im not going to argue the point of headspace being checked and set at the factory, its a worn out subject.
I would be interested in seeing your engravings.
Nah, because I don't buy used things on here. I'm just saying that if I did, that's the route I'd follow.
That'd be fun - maybe a pickleball game? Maybe we could invite Magdump, John, and Jstudzy!! Could have a fun conversation while spiking whiffle balls at each other LOL
GunRelated
Well-Known Member
Years ago, a friend of mine had a house fire. He brought me one of those Ruger 22's you speak of, to clean up and salvage for him.
This was before YouTube tutorials were everywhere, covering just about anything you could imagine.
I like to have NEVER got that pistol back together. Total nightmare.
lol, once you understand the internals and where the hammer needs to be it’s a cinch. My grand dad showed me once on the old standard that most folks call the MKI and I never had a problem.Years ago, a friend of mine had a house fire. He brought me one of those Ruger 22's you speak of, to clean up and salvage for him.
This was before YouTube tutorials were everywhere, covering just about anything you could imagine.
I like to have NEVER got that pistol back together. Total nightmare.
Tip it up, listen for the hammer to fall back and close the lever. Everyone wants to point the barrel down when they get to that step and the hammer is in the way. Once you get it right you’ll never forget.
