Can A Non-FFL Individual Legally Sell A Handgun To Someone Under 21?

[mrmccoy]

If you don't want to sell it to someone under 21 DONT but my understanding has always been 18 from a private party and 21 from an FFL

 

[derf]

From the Brady Campaign about Louisiana:

JUVENILE SALE
Is it illegal to sell handguns to anyone under 21 years of age? No

State law does not restrict selling handguns to juveniles under the age of 21 by unlicensed sellers. Under federal law, only federally licensed dealers are prohibited from selling or delivering handguns or ammunition for handguns to any person under the age of 21. A strong state law is needed to stop unlicensed persons from selling handguns to those under the age of 21.

Yes, they want "a strong statelaw" because the federal law has a loophole. See red text in OP, I added it.

 

[Speedlace]

If you don't want to sell it to someone under 21 DONT but my understanding has always been 18 from a private party and 21 from an FFL

Your understanding is correct.

Yes, they want "a strong statelaw" because the federal law has a loophole. See red text in OP, I added it.

I see.
I'd still check ID just to make sure and not get into trouble later on.

 

[rockmup]

So i missed the NON-FFL part. Was that important ?

 

[Speedlace]

So i missed the NON-FFL part. Was that important ?

Only a wee-bit important.

 

[derf]

Read:

DEPARTMENT OF THE TREASURY
BUREAU OF ALCOHOL, TOBACCO & FIREARMS
YOUTH HANDGUN SAFETY ACT NOTICE
ATF 1 5300.2 (7-2004)

(1) The misuse of handguns is a leading contributor to juvenile violence and fatalities.
(2) Safely storing and securing firearms away from children will help prevent the unlawful possession of handguns by juveniles, stop accidents, and save lives.


(3) Federal law prohibits, except in certain limited circumstances, anyone under 18 years of age from knowingly possessing a handgun, or any person from selling, delivering, or otherwise transferring a handgun to a person under 18.


(4) A knowing violation of the prohibition against selling, delivering, or otherwise transferring a handgun to a person under the age of 18 is, under certain circumstances, punishable by up to 10 years in prison.

FEDERAL LAW

The Gun Control Act of 1968, 18 U.S.C. Chapter 44, provides in pertinent part as follows:


18 U.S.C. 922(x)


(x)
(1) It shall be unlawful for a person to sell, deliver, or otherwise transfer to a person who the transferor knows or has reasonable cause to believe is a juvenile-

(A) a handgun; or
(B) ammunition that is suitable for use only in a handgun.


(2) It shall be unlawful for any person who is a juvenile to knowingly possess-


(A) a handgun; or
(B) ammunition that is suitable for use only in a handgun.


(3) This subsection does not apply to-

(A) a temporary transfer of a handgun or ammunition to a juvenile or to the possession or use of a handgun or ammunition by a juvenile if the handgun and ammunition are possessed and used by the juvenile-


(i) in the course of employment, in the course of ranching or farming related to activities at the residence of the juvenile (or on property used for ranching or farming at which the juvenile, with the permission of the property owner or lessee, is performing activities related to the operation of the farm or ranch), target practice, hunting, or a course of instruction in the safe and lawful use of a handgun;

(ii) with the prior written consent of the juvenile's parent or guardian who is not prohibited by Federal, State, or local law from possessing a firearm, except-

(I) during transportation by the juvenile of an unloaded handgun in a locked container directly from the place of transfer to a place at which an activity described in clause (i) is to take place and transportation by the juvenile of that handgun, unloaded and in a locked container, directly from the place at which such an activity took place to the transferor; or
(II) with respect to ranching or arming activities as described in clause


(i), a juvenile may possess and use a handgun or ammunition with the prior written approval of the juvenile's parent or legal guardian and at the direction of an adult who is not prohibited by Federal, State or local law from possessing a firearm;

(iii) the juvenile has the prior written consent in the juvenile's possession at all times when a handgun is in the possession of the juvenile; and

(iv) in accordance with State and local law;

(B) a juvenile who is a member of the Armed Forces of the United States or the National Guard who possesses or is armed with a handgun in the line of duty;

(C) a transfer by inheritance of title (but not possession) of a handgun or ammunition to a juvenile; or

(D) the possession of a handgun or ammunition by a juvenile taken in defense of the juvenile or other persons against an intruder into the residence of the juvenile or a residence in which he juvenile is an invited guest.


(4) A handgun or ammunition, the possession of which is transferred to a juvenile in circumstances in which the transferor is not in violation of this subsection shall not be subject to permanent confiscation by the Government if its possession by the juvenile subsequently becomes unlawful because of the conduct of the juvenile, but shall be returned to the lawful owner when such handgun or ammunition is no longer required by the Government for the purposes of investigation or prosecution.
(5) For purposes of this subsection, the term "juvenile" means a person who is less than 18 years of age.
(6)


(A) In a prosecution of a violation of this subsection, the court shall require the presence of a juvenile defendant's parent or legal guardian at all proceedings.

(B) The court may use the contempt power to enforce subparagraph (A).

(C) The court may excuse attendance of a parent or legal guardian of a juvenile defendant at a proceeding in a prosecution of a violation of this subsection for good cause shown.

18 U.S.C. 924(a)(6)

(6)(A)

(i) A juvenile who violates section 922(x) shall be fined under this title, imprisoned not more than 1 year, or both, except that a juvenile described in clause
(ii) shall be sentenced to probation on appropriate conditions and shall not be incarcerated unless the juvenile fails to comply with a condition of probation.
(ii) A juvenile is described in this clause .if --


(I) the offense of which the juvenile is charged is possession of a handgun or ammunition in violation of section 922(x)(2); and
(II) the juvenile has not been convicted in any court of an offense (including an offense under section 922(x) or a similar State law, but not including any other offense consisting of conduct that if engaged in by an adult would not constitute an offense) or adjudicated as a juvenile delinquent for conduct that if engaged in by an adult would constitute an offense.


(B) A person other than a juvenile who knowingly violates section 922(x)-


(i) shall be fined under this title, imprisoned not more than I year, or both; and
(ii) if the person sold, delivered, or otherwise transferred a handgun or ammunition to a juvenile knowing or having reasonable cause to know that the juvenile intended to carry or otherwise possess or discharge or otherwise use the handgun or ammunition in the commission of a crime of violence, shall be fined under this title, imprisoned not more than 10 years, or both.

If you have any questions, contact:

Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms
650 Massachusetts Avenue, NW
Washington, DC 20226

Phone: (202)927-7770 OR

Visit our web site at www.atf.treas.gov

 

[CZowner07]

I asked someone VERRY VERYY VERYY VERY high up on this site this EXACT same question and his answer was ....

18. state only restricts possession (17 or under is illegal without concent or other crap) and feds only restrict sales from dealers (21)

 

[CZowner07]

DEPARTMENT OF THE TREASURY
BUREAU OF ALCOHOL, TOBACCO & FIREARMS
YOUTH HANDGUN SAFETY ACT NOTICE
ATF 1 5300.2 (7-2004)

(1) The misuse of handguns is a leading contributor to juvenile violence and fatalities.
(2) Safely storing and securing firearms away from children will help prevent the unlawful possession of handguns by juveniles, stop accidents, and save lives.


(3) Federal law prohibits, except in certain limited circumstances, anyone under 18 years of age from knowingly possessing a handgun, or any person from selling, delivering, or otherwise transferring a handgun to a person under 18.


(4) A knowing violation of the prohibition against selling, delivering, or otherwise transferring a handgun to a person under the age of 18 is, under certain circumstances, punishable by up to 10 years in prison.

FEDERAL LAW

The Gun Control Act of 1968, 18 U.S.C. Chapter 44, provides in pertinent part as follows:


18 U.S.C. 922(x)


(x)
(1) It shall be unlawful for a person to sell, deliver, or otherwise transfer to a person who the transferor knows or has reasonable cause to believe is a juvenile-

(A) a handgun; or
(B) ammunition that is suitable for use only in a handgun.


(2) It shall be unlawful for any person who is a juvenile to knowingly possess-


(A) a handgun; or
(B) ammunition that is suitable for use only in a handgun.


(3) This subsection does not apply to-

(A) a temporary transfer of a handgun or ammunition to a juvenile or to the possession or use of a handgun or ammunition by a juvenile if the handgun and ammunition are possessed and used by the juvenile-


(i) in the course of employment, in the course of ranching or farming related to activities at the residence of the juvenile (or on property used for ranching or farming at which the juvenile, with the permission of the property owner or lessee, is performing activities related to the operation of the farm or ranch), target practice, hunting, or a course of instruction in the safe and lawful use of a handgun;

(ii) with the prior written consent of the juvenile's parent or guardian who is not prohibited by Federal, State, or local law from possessing a firearm, except-

(I) during transportation by the juvenile of an unloaded handgun in a locked container directly from the place of transfer to a place at which an activity described in clause (i) is to take place and transportation by the juvenile of that handgun, unloaded and in a locked container, directly from the place at which such an activity took place to the transferor; or
(II) with respect to ranching or arming activities as described in clause


(i), a juvenile may possess and use a handgun or ammunition with the prior written approval of the juvenile's parent or legal guardian and at the direction of an adult who is not prohibited by Federal, State or local law from possessing a firearm;

(iii) the juvenile has the prior written consent in the juvenile's possession at all times when a handgun is in the possession of the juvenile; and

(iv) in accordance with State and local law;

(B) a juvenile who is a member of the Armed Forces of the United States or the National Guard who possesses or is armed with a handgun in the line of duty;

(C) a transfer by inheritance of title (but not possession) of a handgun or ammunition to a juvenile; or

(D) the possession of a handgun or ammunition by a juvenile taken in defense of the juvenile or other persons against an intruder into the residence of the juvenile or a residence in which he juvenile is an invited guest.


(4) A handgun or ammunition, the possession of which is transferred to a juvenile in circumstances in which the transferor is not in violation of this subsection shall not be subject to permanent confiscation by the Government if its possession by the juvenile subsequently becomes unlawful because of the conduct of the juvenile, but shall be returned to the lawful owner when such handgun or ammunition is no longer required by the Government for the purposes of investigation or prosecution.
(5) For purposes of this subsection, the term "juvenile" means a person who is less than 18 years of age.
(6)


(A) In a prosecution of a violation of this subsection, the court shall require the presence of a juvenile defendant's parent or legal guardian at all proceedings.

(B) The court may use the contempt power to enforce subparagraph (A).

(C) The court may excuse attendance of a parent or legal guardian of a juvenile defendant at a proceeding in a prosecution of a violation of this subsection for good cause shown.

18 U.S.C. 924(a)(6)

(6)(A)

(i) A juvenile who violates section 922(x) shall be fined under this title, imprisoned not more than 1 year, or both, except that a juvenile described in clause
(ii) shall be sentenced to probation on appropriate conditions and shall not be incarcerated unless the juvenile fails to comply with a condition of probation.
(ii) A juvenile is described in this clause .if --


(I) the offense of which the juvenile is charged is possession of a handgun or ammunition in violation of section 922(x)(2); and
(II) the juvenile has not been convicted in any court of an offense (including an offense under section 922(x) or a similar State law, but not including any other offense consisting of conduct that if engaged in by an adult would not constitute an offense) or adjudicated as a juvenile delinquent for conduct that if engaged in by an adult would constitute an offense.


(B) A person other than a juvenile who knowingly violates section 922(x)-


(i) shall be fined under this title, imprisoned not more than I year, or both; and
(ii) if the person sold, delivered, or otherwise transferred a handgun or ammunition to a juvenile knowing or having reasonable cause to know that the juvenile intended to carry or otherwise possess or discharge or otherwise use the handgun or ammunition in the commission of a crime of violence, shall be fined under this title, imprisoned not more than 10 years, or both.

If you have any questions, contact:

Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms
650 Massachusetts Avenue, NW
Washington, DC 20226

Phone: (202)927-7770 OR

Visit our web site at www.atf.treas.gov

It says nothing about being 21 to buy a handgun in private sales. It is illegal for someone under 18 to posses a handgun or for someone to tranfer a handgun to someone under 18.

 

[derf]

Take a good hard look at the Handgun Safety Act

 

[derf]

It says nothing about being 21 to buy a handgun in private sales. It is illegal for someone under 18 to posses a handgun or for someone to tranfer a handgun to someone under 18.

Federal law prohibits......... any person from selling, delivering, or otherwise transferring a handgun to a person under 18.

Is that not clear?

 

[derf]

OH, you're rignt. 18.

 

[CZowner07]

Take a good hard look at the Handgun Safety Act

\

18 U.S.C. 922(x)


(x)
(1) It shall be unlawful for a person to sell, deliver, or otherwise transfer to a person who the transferor knows or has reasonable cause to believe is a juvenile-

(A) a handgun; or
(B) ammunition that is suitable for use only in a handgun.


Juvenile is under 18.

 

[CZowner07]

OH, you're rignt. 18.

are you FING serious????

 

[CZowner07]

WOW! Now do you see it lol

 

[CZowner07]

SOOOOO... Born4Spd and myself were right???

 

[derf]

SOOOOO... Born4Spd and myself were right???

Not yet. I got sidetracked on the juvenile stuff.
Sorry about that.
The 18-21 is a gray area. It is illegal for a FFL to sell a handgun to someone under 21.
The NRA site has "Persons less than 21 years of age for the purchase of a firearm that is other than a shotgun or rifle." as "Ineligible Persons" in their Citizen's Guide, here: http://www.nraila.org/GunLaws/Federal/Read.aspx?id=60

But, I can't find it clearly stated in the GCA or anywhere in Federal Code.

I certainly wouldn't want to be the one who sets the precedent, if it goes bad.

From the AFT FAQ:

A person may sell a firearm to an unlicensed resident of his State, if he does not know or have reasonable cause to believe the person is prohibited from receiving or possessing firearms under Federal law

One can argue that since persons under 21 can receive or possess handguns if they are given to them by their parents, then sale to those persons is legal.

Or, one can argue that since it is illegal for a licensed dealer to sell a handgun to someone under 21 then if you sell to that someone then you are breaking the law, having "reasonable cause to believe the person is prohibited from receiving or possessing firearms under Federal law."

The loophole is you aren't required to check age. But, if you happen to know the buyer's age then I think you have reasonable cause to believe........

 

[CZowner07]

Federal law prohibits......... any person from selling, delivering, or otherwise transferring a handgun to a person under 18.

 

[derf]

Federal law prohibits......... any person from selling, delivering, or otherwise transferring a handgun to a person under 18.

OK, I'm tired, but I'm with you there.

That doesn't mean that you can sell a handgun to everyone over 18.

 

[CZowner07]

OK, I'm tired, but I'm with you there.

That doesn't mean that you can sell a handgun to everyone over 18.

Well of course if you have a handgun and you have reason to think the person who buys it is buying to do wrong then you will not sell them to it. But if it was someone on this site who post a lot then I would fell safe selling it to someone in the 18-21 year old rang.

 

[derf]

If I posted something for sale and someone met me with cash and their age never came up, then I wouldn't have a problem.
But, in the case of the two guys and the CZ-82s, they posted something basically stating that they were under 21. So, if I, knowing that they can't legally get one from a dealer, buy the 82s and then turn around and sell them to those two nice BS guys, then it sure looks like I subverted the laws and made a straw purchase. If they had not let it be known that they were under 21, then maybe I could sell to them without any worries. But, the group buy didn't happen. And now I've decided to sell one or two of my 82s, and probably a few other handguns but I'm still reluctant to sell to guys who I know are under 21. That "reasonable cause to believe" is too open to interpretation.