Clinton drug deal leaves man dead; three arrested.

[Bayoupiper]

I don't think he hit the boy in the head with a whiffle ball bat. The homeowner seemed to be the agressor striking Anthony from behind with a rifle butt. For all Anthony knew, it was the end of the line for himself, so in an act of self preservation he did the logical thing and tried to stop the threat. IIRC he struck the guy in the stomach area. Had he walked in and Mozambiqued the homeowner, I might could see the "specific intent" part and would agree with Murder 1, but as it stands Murder 2 seems a better fit for now.

Just speculation mind you, but it seems plausable.

Your true colors are revealed!



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[Bayoupiper]

We keep talking about specific intent as it relates to a drug deal.
Instead of using that phrase, let's use premeditation.

I doubt it was his plan to go there and shoot someone.

If so, he is a whole lot more f*cked up than a lot of you think.


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[spanky]

Alot of people also seem to not realize that you are only entitled by law to the use of deadly force if you are not doing anything illegal, that's why they're looking at murder and not self defense. Because it looks like a drug deal gone bad.

 

[Hitman]

New development:
http://www.2theadvocate.com/news/51830197.html

One person on here mentioned that he might have been a CI for the cops which is why there was a cop near by in a place that supposedly the cops didn't travel, now the place is burning afterwards?

Oh Lord, here we go ...

 

[Manimal]

When he fired the gun, would a reasonable man believe that he had specific intent to kill or cause great bodily harm? If you shoot someone on purpose, you have specific intent. The act is shooting. What did you intend when you shot?

One could ask the same question about striking someone with the butt of a gun.

Would it cause a reasonable man to be in fear for his life if a person struck them in the back of the head with a Rifle, with such force as to require medical attention?

Unfortunately for Anty, if he was buying drugs or with someone buying drugs, that reasonable fear does not apply in a manner that would allow him to protect his life. Realistically, the presence of drugs in the house with, or without, Anty's knowledge would have also eliminated his right to self defence, as far as a prosecutor is concerned.
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He likely only had 2 immediate options, to allow himself to be harmed or to stop the threat.

The killing may have been completely justifiable had the drugs not been in play. Regardless of his involvenment in drugs, their presence will cause him to be charged and tried for 1st degree murder, a plead to 2nd is very possible but probably not less.

The fact that Anty and the other guys ran out of the house to ask for assistance from an officer probably does not mean anything in the end...but it would suggest that Anty shot the 'victim' only to stop the 'victims' threat to end Anty's life.

If it comes between shooting someone, or being shot in the back while you leave...what is your choice?

Is it truly better to be judged by 12 than carried by 6?

He made a stupid choice to be there, but was it a stupid choice to protect his life? I would hate to be in the shoes of anyone there.

 

[Gus McCrae]

As for the rifle butt question, I think someone hitting you with a rifle butt is probably reason enough to think your life in in danger.

 

[John_L]

He made a stupid choice to be there,

It would be best to just put a period where that comma is.

 

[Bayoupiper]

One could ask the same question about striking someone with the butt of a gun.

Would it cause a reasonable man to be in fear for his life if a person struck them in the back of the head with a Rifle, with such force as to require medical attention?

Unfortunately for Anty, if he was buying drugs or with someone buying drugs, that reasonable fear does not apply in a manner that would allow him to protect his life. Realistically, the presence of drugs in the house with, or without, Anty's knowledge would have also eliminated his right to self defence, as far as a prosecutor is concerned.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------

He likely only had 2 immediate options, to allow himself to be harmed or to stop the threat.

The killing may have been completely justifiable had the drugs not been in play. Regardless of his involvenment in drugs, their presence will cause him to be charged and tried for 1st degree murder, a plead to 2nd is very possible but probably not less.

The fact that Anty and the other guys ran out of the house to ask for assistance from an officer probably does not mean anything in the end...but it would suggest that Anty shot the 'victim' only to stop the 'victims' threat to end Anty's life.

If it comes between shooting someone, or being shot in the back while you leave...what is your choice?

Is it truly better to be judged by 12 than carried by 6?

He made a stupid choice to be there, but was it a stupid choice to protect his life? I would hate to be in the shoes of anyone there.

Well, I think this pretty much rules out his not knowing what was going down:

http://www.nevergetbusted.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=13&t=2415





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[spanky]

One could ask the same question about striking someone with the butt of a gun.

Would it cause a reasonable man to be in fear for his life if a person struck them in the back of the head with a Rifle, with such force as to require medical attention?

Unfortunately for Anty, if he was buying drugs or with someone buying drugs, that reasonable fear does not apply in a manner that would allow him to protect his life. Realistically, the presence of drugs in the house with, or without, Anty's knowledge would have also eliminated his right to self defence, as far as a prosecutor is concerned.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------

He likely only had 2 immediate options, to allow himself to be harmed or to stop the threat.

The killing may have been completely justifiable had the drugs not been in play. Regardless of his involvenment in drugs, their presence will cause him to be charged and tried for 1st degree murder, a plead to 2nd is very possible but probably not less.

The fact that Anty and the other guys ran out of the house to ask for assistance from an officer probably does not mean anything in the end...but it would suggest that Anty shot the 'victim' only to stop the 'victims' threat to end Anty's life.

If it comes between shooting someone, or being shot in the back while you leave...what is your choice?

Is it truly better to be judged by 12 than carried by 6?

He made a stupid choice to be there, but was it a stupid choice to protect his life? I would hate to be in the shoes of anyone there.

You do not have justification for lethal force if you are involved in a crime. Period.

If the guy butt-stroked him while they were there watching movies and eating pizza and, fine, blast the guy but not if you're there to buy drugs.

 

[D-DAY]

Your true colors are revealed!



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Which are???

I simply provided another scenario.

 

[Narco]

One could ask the same question about striking someone with the butt of a gun.

Would it cause a reasonable man to be in fear for his life if a person struck them in the back of the head with a Rifle, with such force as to require medical attention?

Unfortunately for Anty, if he was buying drugs or with someone buying drugs, that reasonable fear does not apply in a manner that would allow him to protect his life. Realistically, the presence of drugs in the house with, or without, Anty's knowledge would have also eliminated his right to self defence, as far as a prosecutor is concerned.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------

He likely only had 2 immediate options, to allow himself to be harmed or to stop the threat.

The killing may have been completely justifiable had the drugs not been in play. Regardless of his involvenment in drugs, their presence will cause him to be charged and tried for 1st degree murder, a plead to 2nd is very possible but probably not less.

The fact that Anty and the other guys ran out of the house to ask for assistance from an officer probably does not mean anything in the end...but it would suggest that Anty shot the 'victim' only to stop the 'victims' threat to end Anty's life.

If it comes between shooting someone, or being shot in the back while you leave...what is your choice?

Is it truly better to be judged by 12 than carried by 6?

He made a stupid choice to be there, but was it a stupid choice to protect his life? I would hate to be in the shoes of anyone there.

I'll agree with the bold section.

 

[oleheat]

To me, looking at all the info available to us, it's as simple as this:

A 19 year old smartass kid thinks it's cool to live the "thugg life" by pretending to be some sort of hip-hop mogul, and is hanging around with the wrong people- then takes things to the next level by attending drug deals in the hood while carrying (probably illegally) a gat. MORON!!!
Among my many questions, I must ask- who the hell are this kid's parents??? IF I had a 19 year old son (I do not), I'll be damned if he is going to be going anywhere around the hood, unless he's a reserve deputy sheriff. The fact that he's an "adult" would not mean **** to me. His little ass would either be in college or going to work every day, NOT going around with his "posse" pretending to be Eminem.
My old man would have kicked my ass- DERSERVEDLY- if he'd have caught me doing any of the BS this kid was pulling. IMHO, this is a sad example of what CAN happen when you allow the young & stupid to police themselves....Maybe I'm wrong, but I don't think I am.
True, I don't know all of the details. But I can't see this being much different than what I described here....

 

[Narco]

What alot of folks FAIL to realize, because they are so ****ing blind to it, is that this type of **** happens daily... Right ****ing now.... 30 secs ago, 10 mins from now.. **** like this is happening.. Doesn't have to be someone killed, but ppl going in the hood, get robbed, stabbed, jacked, for the purchasing money all the time. Drug dealers get jacked. DD try to **** over customers with fake dope.

Just because the game caught up with a person we have some knowledge of, doesn't make it any different. Right now, someone's brother, son, grandson is dead.. Right now, someone's son, boyfriend is sitting in a 6x8 wondering wtf. The Game is fun, its a rush, it seems to be cool as **** and will get you more ***** than you can shake a stick at.. That is until you get caught, or dead..

 

[John_L]

IF I had a 19 year old son (I do not), I'll be damned if he is going to be going anywhere around the hood, unless he's a reserve deputy sheriff. The fact that he's an "adult" would not mean **** to me. His little ass would either be in college or going to work every day, NOT going around with his "posse" pretending to be Eminem.

Ensuring a 19 year old isn't dumbass enough to go somewhere he should not be starts when he's born and NEVER lets up. Even then, even with doing it all right, some kids will go wrong anyway and there's nothing a parent can do to stop it short of locking him up in the attic and never letting him out.

 

[spanky]

What alot of folks FAIL to realize, because they are so ****ing blind to it, is that this type of **** happens daily... Right ****ing now.... 30 secs ago, 10 mins from now.. **** like this is happening.. Doesn't have to be someone killed, but ppl going in the hood, get robbed, stabbed, jacked, for the purchasing money all the time. Drug dealers get jacked. DD try to **** over customers with fake dope.

Just because the game caught up with a person we have some knowledge of, doesn't make it any different. Right now, someone's brother, son, grandson is dead.. Right now, someone's son, boyfriend is sitting in a 6x8 wondering wtf. The Game is fun, its a rush, it seems to be cool as **** and will get you more ***** than you can shake a stick at.. That is until you get caught, or dead..

You really think people don't realize that this is a common occurrence? Just because some of us are not Leo does not mean we are blind to the real world. Anyone is going to talk more about the actions of someone they "know" vs someone they don't. That's a fact of life.

 

[D-DAY]

What alot of folks FAIL to realize, because they are so ****ing blind to it, is that this type of **** happens daily... Right ****ing now.... 30 secs ago, 10 mins from now.. **** like this is happening.. Doesn't have to be someone killed, but ppl going in the hood, get robbed, stabbed, jacked, for the purchasing money all the time. Drug dealers get jacked. DD try to **** over customers with fake dope.

Just because the game caught up with a person we have some knowledge of, doesn't make it any different. Right now, someone's brother, son, grandson is dead.. Right now, someone's son, boyfriend is sitting in a 6x8 wondering wtf. The Game is fun, its a rush, it seems to be cool as **** and will get you more ***** than you can shake a stick at.. That is until you get caught, or dead..

This is a perfect segway into the WOD discussion. End the silly ass epic failure that is the WOD and the majority of what you stated goes away. We would also have to change the even more moronic drug laws in the country.

BTW, something you enforcement fellows will like, starting in September I believe, Soma is going to be a Schedule IV and Pseudoephadrine will be a Schedule V in Louisiana. WTF!!!

 

[Manimal]

Well, I think this pretty much rules out his not knowing what was going down:

http://www.nevergetbusted.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=13&t=2415


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I was saying that it doesnt matter if he knew or not, it really doesnt to prosecution.

You do not have justification for lethal force if you are involved in a crime. Period.

If the guy butt-stroked him while they were there watching movies and eating pizza and, fine, blast the guy but not if you're there to buy drugs.

So he should have let the guy beat him to death or shoot him while he tried to leave?

Scenario: You cut someone off, pissing some G's off, there are three people in the car and they start shooting at your car, you stop and they stop...still shooting at you and your car. What do you do? Do you sit there and take on all three of them, or do you drive, try to get the **** out of dodge/to help, and return fire if you have to? Firing from a moving car is a Felony...does that mean that you have morally and ethically lost the right to protect your life, even though Legally you are breaking the law?


People break the law EVERY DAY, every single one of us does...-every single one of us-...so you are telling me that Morally and Ethically we have no right to defend ourselves if have top defend ourselves while we do something illegal that is inherently harmless and not harmful to any human being in the entire world?

Legally this guy is ****ed, as I have said several times...I'm not standing up for him.

I'm just posting points of view and arguments about the matter.

 

[Bayoupiper]

What alot of folks FAIL to realize, because they are so ****ing blind to it, is that this type of **** happens daily... Right ****ing now.... 30 secs ago, 10 mins from now.. **** like this is happening.. Doesn't have to be someone killed, but ppl going in the hood, get robbed, stabbed, jacked, for the purchasing money all the time. Drug dealers get jacked. DD try to **** over customers with fake dope.

Just because the game caught up with a person we have some knowledge of, doesn't make it any different. Right now, someone's brother, son, grandson is dead.. Right now, someone's son, boyfriend is sitting in a 6x8 wondering wtf. The Game is fun, its a rush, it seems to be cool as **** and will get you more ***** than you can shake a stick at.. That is until you get caught, or dead..

Of course we know it goes on daily!

And yes, this time it is someone we are familiar with.
But it is that exact reason, and the "uniqueness" of his situation that interests us.

.

 

[Narco]

This is a perfect segway into the WOD discussion. End the silly ass epic failure that is the WOD and the majority of what you stated goes away. We would also have to change the even more moronic drug laws in the country.

BTW, something you enforcement fellows will like, starting in September I believe, Soma is going to be a Schedule IV and Pseudoephadrine will be a Schedule V in Louisiana. WTF!!!

At this time they are Sch IV aka Legend Drugs... They are just added everything else that is prescribed by a physician to a new category... Sch V.
IIRC

That is to cover medications that are not narcotic by manufacture, but still abused..

 

[Narco]

Of course we know it goes on daily!

And yes, this time it is someone we are familiar with.
But it is that exact reason, and the "uniqueness" of his situation that interests us.

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I wasn't talking to you... You already get "IT".