entry level ar15

[SpeedRacer]

Don't you guys have a PSA loaner that has held up pretty well? I was under the impression they were Milspec and great for the price point.


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Yep, you replied as I was editing my post. PSA rifles are very good for the money. If I had a limited budget I would take a PSA over anything else in the price range. That doesn't mean I wouldn't spend more on a Colt/DD/BCM/etc if I could afford to do so.

The term "mil-spec" is used loosely these days and is more of a marketing term than anything.

 

[Jack]

Yep, you replied as I was editing my post. PSA rifles are very good for the money. If I had a limited budget I would take a PSA over anything else in the price range. That doesn't mean I wouldn't spend more on a Colt/DD/BCM/etc if I could afford to do so.

The term "mil-spec" is used loosely these days and is more of a marketing term than anything.

Clearly you've forgotten the Wyndham weaponry ar, with sightmark and slide fire. Best rifle to have ever graced the classifieds with its presence.

 

[chad]

Clearly you've forgotten the Wyndham weaponry ar, with sightmark and slide fire. Best rifle to have ever graced the classifieds with its presence.

Who ended up getting that? I forgot.


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[aard3]

Personally, I believe if you are buying your FIRST ar15, then buy a good reliable rifle. After you have at least one good rifle, then you can start researching PSA, trying to find deals, customizing, etc...

You can't go wrong with a Colt.

If you can spring for an extra $45 bucks, you could get a Mid-length BCM
http://www.midwestindustriesinc.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=category.display&category_ID=1052

Comes with MOE Trigger Guard, MOE Handrail and BCM Charging handle...

 

[crazycajun]

http://www.spikestactical.com/new/z...0.html?zenid=dbabac19585fb0301cae64a42d82cc5b
i like the looks of this one as well as the rock river arms mid length a4
are these solid rifles?
the local gun shop handles bushmaster and from what he says there very good guns but rra and spikes was suggested to me by members here i'de rather take advice from shooters then dealers if i have to i'll save up a couple hundred more to get something worth the money

 

[SpeedRacer]

Spikes used to be solid but I've heard their rifles are hit-or-miss lately. RRA are flat out way overpriced for what they are.

Regardless, I would recommend against anything with a quad rail. They add a lot of weight for the benefit of rail space you'll never use. Modular tubes (such as the Troy Alpha or DD MFR) are the way to go. You can buy a rifle like the DD M4V7 with a tube already equipped, or buy something simple and upgrade as neccessary.

 

[Jack]

Who ended up getting that? I forgot.


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Some d-bag that still owes me a commission and wouldn't even let me buy a lower

 

[egl1962]

if a grand is the budget, i would hold off, save a couple hundred more and get a daniel defense and you won't need any up grades later. you will spend a lot more than 200.00-250.00 later on up grades than just wait a little longer and get them when you buy the rifle. not to mention you will have a teir 1 rifle to boot. if you buy a lessor rifle, you are going to want something better at some point ( and you will we all do) and end up taking a bath on what ever you get because it won't have the resale value of the bigger names. even with up grades.

 

[southernz]

I just ordered my first AR. A colt LE6920 for $1040 OTD. I have been researching for months now and decided this was the best route to take.

 

[dixiejarhead]

Here's the secret, PSA guns are milspec. Their parts are FN and DD. So far out of the dozen or so I have built they have been on par if not exceeded the quality of the wal mart colts. Either one would serve one well as an entry AR.

 

[SpeedRacer]

Here's the secret, PSA guns are milspec. Their parts are FN and DD. So far out of the dozen or so I have built they have been on par if not exceeded the quality of the wal mart colts. Either one would serve one well as an entry AR.

This is a common misconception. Mil-spec is as much about assembly process as it is parts. Technically, only Colts are truly milspec as defined in the TDP. And AFAIK the guns they sell to Walmart are no different. Feel free to show some data suggesting otherwise if not.

PSA rifles and parts are a great value, and a great entry level AR. But they are not mil-spec and certainly not better than Colt.

 

[dixiejarhead]

This is a common misconception. Mil-spec is as much about assembly process as it is parts. Technically, only Colts are truly milspec as defined in the TDP. And AFAIK the guns they sell to Walmart are no different. Feel free to show some data suggesting otherwise if not.

PSA rifles and parts are a great value, and a great entry level AR. But they are not mil-spec and certainly not better than Colt.

Produced by two military contractors? ok. Believe what you want to. FN has had the M16a2 contract for years. The rifles are assembled properly. At least they are identical to every contract weapon I've ever handled or repaired in service. All the parts are to Military Specifications - at least all the ones that count. Barrel, B/CG, Upper, LPK. Lower is semi auto, were it full auto I'm certain it'd be mil spec as well, but since it's semi....

 

[Vanilla Gorilla]

PSA rifles are a great value but they are not mil-spec. Neither the parts nor process meet the bar.

 

[dixiejarhead]

PSA rifles are a great value but they are not mil-spec. Neither the parts nor process meet the bar.

Um, yes they are. http://www.warriortalk.com/showthre...ate-armory-m4-orc-16-quot-5.56-mil-spec/page2

Note the photos. The parts are made by FN and they also have a contract with Daniel Defense for parts.

Palmetto State Armory 16'' Hammer Forged Mid-length Mock Dissipator
$519.95
http://palmettostatearmory.com/images/8974.jpg

Once upon a time, a "dissipator" AR was created by taking a 20" rifle-length gas system upper and cutting the barrel down to 16". This allowed the shooter to keep the long sight radius of a rifle for accuracy, but keep the carbine length barrel for maneuverability. The proximity of the gas port to the muzzle, however, played havoc with timing and made reliability a hit or miss proposition. Advances in AR technology have produced reliable carbine and mid-length gas systems, that can be hidden using low-profile gas blocks. This allows for a front sight base to be pinned in the rifle position for the longer sight radius without the worry of the unorthodox gas port location affecting operation. We use the term "mock" to differentiate our dissipator from a cut-down rifle length version.

Our Hammer-Forged Mid-length mock dissipator uses a "Machine Gun Steel" barrel that is thick chrome-lined for durability and high pressure tested and magnetic particle inspected.

Barrel: A proprietary blend of Hammer forged chrome molly vanadium made by FN that is referred to as "Machine Gun Steel" by virtue of its use in FN's M249 and M240 weapons. The hammer forging process work hardens the steel, making it more durable. In addition, the chrome process for the bore allows for a lining almost twice as thick as a standard M16 for enhanced durability. Chambered in 5.56 NATO, with a 1/7 twist, M4 barrel extension, and a Mid-length gas system. A2 style profile barrel is Mil-spec phosphate coated, High Pressure tested and Magnetic Particle inspected. Barrel is finished off with a pinned F-marked front sight post in the Rifle position with sling swivel, MOE rifle length handguards, and an A2 flash hider.

Upper: Forged 7075-T6 A3 AR upper is made to MIL-SPECS and hard coat anodized black for durability. Featuring machined T marks, and a mil-spec finish. These uppers are made for us right here in the USA by a mil-spec manufacturer, and are marked with the Palmetto State Armory logo on the left side, up front, just below the rail.Bolt: Bolt is made of Mil-spec Carpenter 158 steel, Shot peened, MPI and HPT. Gas key is secured with grade 8 fasteners and staked per mil-spec. Bolt carrier is parkerized outside, chrome lined inside, and laser engraved with the Palmetto State Armory logo.

Each upper is assembled to order with care and test fired before shipping. Please allow up to 15 business days for your upper to ship. Use the drop down menu to specify the color handguards desired.

 

[Vanilla Gorilla]

They accept barrels from FN that are seconds. It isn't a bad thing, I'm not knocking the guns but they aren't Mil-Spec. Using warriortalk for facts is pretty dubious. Like Speed said alot of the Spec is Assembly Process. I'm sure the upper receivers are Mil-Spec but that doesn't mean the rifle is.

 

[dixiejarhead]

They accept barrels from FN that are seconds. It isn't a bad thing, I'm not knocking the guns but they aren't Mil-Spec. Using warriortalk for facts is pretty dubious. Like Speed said alot of the Spec is Assembly Process. I'm sure the upper receivers are Mil-Spec but that doesn't mean the rifle is.

Well considering I have information directly from the source(s) and have the experiance to know what the heck I'm looking at considering I'm a military trained depot level armorer from the marine corps I can fully assure you that these guns are mil-spec. I have personally NEVER seen a factory second barrel at PSAs facility or on any gun or kit I have ordered from them. I don't know where you're pulling this so called "info" you have. If you read again, I said look at the photos on that link, not necessarily endorsing that thread as evidence, although there is a ton of great info on WT. Just like here. Some good, some bad, some inbetween.

ETA - The assembly process is simply that - a process. In armorer school at APG you learn what and how the rifle is supposed to be built - i.e. - what you're referring to as the "process" - the fact that these parts are put together using the same process with parts from a military contractor shows that indeed the rifle is up to specifications - as much as any other civilian semi auto can/could be considering that part of the specifications allow for select fire capability, which if taken into account, NONE of civilian rifles by definition would/could EVER be truly MIL SPEC....

 

[Vanilla Gorilla]

Ok man. You win. I have no idea what I'm talking about.

 

[SpeedRacer]

Colt, FN and Remington have access to the TDP. That's it. Other brands (PSA) may use some parts that are made to some of the military specifications. The term mil-spec has become nothing more than a marketing tool. Is a PSA closer to military specs than say a DPMS Sporter? Absolutely. That doesn't make it a "mil-spec rifle" though.

No one is saying there's anything wrong with PSA. We use one as a loaner in classes and it runs like a champ. One of my ARs is built with PSA lower parts. It's just silly the way the term "mil-spec" is thrown around.

 

[Vanilla Gorilla]

My source FWIW is FNH-USA. It's also PSA who does not claim their rifles are Mil-Spec just that they use some Mil-Spec components.

 

[SpeedRacer]

which if taken into account, NONE of civilian rifles by definition would/could EVER be truly MIL SPEC....

That I agree with. But you can't tell me a Colt 6920 isn't closer to a true M4 than a PSA build.