entry level ar15

[dixiejarhead]

That I agree with. But you can't tell me a Colt 6920 isn't closer to a true M4 than a PSA build.

You're correct. Considering they have the M4 contract, it is closer. I would'nt call it any better though based off of my experiances with both, but again, my opinion.

 

[goteron]

Pretty sure the PSA rollmark and laser engraving isn't in the TDP.

 

[dixiejarhead]

My source FWIW is FNH-USA. It's also PSA who does not claim their rifles are Mil-Spec just that they use some Mil-Spec components.

yes, their in house furnature is NOT mil spec. All the metal parts are however. I said that earlier. Not trying to be an @ss, just don't want people to spend money without all the facts.

 

[dixiejarhead]

Pretty sure the PSA rollmark and laser engraving isn't in the TDP.

You're correct. And it affects the bottom line how?

 

[dixiejarhead]

Ok man. You win. I have no idea what I'm talking about.

Well cite your sources and I'll certainly look. I'm open minded.

 

[Vanilla Gorilla]

I did

 

[dixiejarhead]

I did

Ok, and to the factory seconds comment, where did you find that?

 

[goteron]

I don't have the colt TDP, and I'm not an auditor, so when people tell me it's mil-spec, I take it with a grain of salt.

Also, a lot of those specs are old, materials am processes are improved. I'd rather have a Isonite QPQ barrel than chrome lined. That's 70s tech.

Unless a rifle is delivered to the .mil, it's not mil-spec. And mil spec is used waaay to often these days.

I think PSA is a good deal, but I believe DD and BCM do it better. That's my .02. Essentially worthless. People will buy what they want.

If your bored:

http://www.everyspec.com/MIL-SPECS/MIL-SPECS-MIL-W/download.php?spec=MIL-W-13855D.025020.pdf

 

[Vanilla Gorilla]

FN. Doesnt mean PSA is bad. But given what margins are in firearms manufacturing they have to cut cost somewhere to meet their price point.

 

[dixiejarhead]

I don't have the colt TDP, and I'm not an auditor, so when people tell me it's mil-spec, I take it with a grain of salt.

Also, a lot of those specs are old, materials am processes are improved. I'd rather have a Isonite QPQ barrel than chrome lined. That's 70s tech.

Unless a rifle is delivered to the .mil, it's not mil-spec. And mil spec is used waaay to often these days.

I think PSA is a good deal, but I believe DD and BCM do it better. That's my .02. Essentially worthless. People will buy what they want.

If your bored:

http://www.everyspec.com/MIL-SPECS/MIL-SPECS-MIL-W/download.php?spec=MIL-W-13855D.025020.pdf

I don't disagree at all with your statement. Essentially, ALL civilian rifles are NOT mil spec. I do however take the time to look at whats in a kit or build, just like most all of us do - quality shows, lack of quality shows as well. I don't know how many junk parts I've tossed in the last 20+ years from civi kits and replaced with mil spec parts to make the rifle more reliable. Biggest offender for years was a soft extractor pin. Had to toss and replace with a spec hardened one.

 

[dixiejarhead]

FN. Doesnt mean PSA is bad. But given what margins are in firearms manufacturing they have to cut cost somewhere to meet their price point.

Just to clarify, you read that FN delivers factory seconds to PSA on their website or heard it from their reps? Or is it just an assumption on your part?

 

[Vanilla Gorilla]

A gentleman who works for FN. I am 100% sure PSA is aware. I have been extremely pleased with the PSA Rifle we use as a class loaner. It has performed very well. It doesn't extract steel casings all that well and the anodizing is really pretty poor but all in all it's an excellent gun for the money and if somebody wanted a sub 900usd rifle I would not hesitate and often do recommend PSA.

 

[dixiejarhead]

A gentleman who works for FN. I am 100% sure PSA is aware. I have been extremely pleased with the PSA Rifle we use as a class loaner. It has performed very well. It doesn't extract steel casings all that well and the anodizing is really pretty poor but all in all it's an excellent gun for the money and if somebody wanted a sub 900usd rifle I would not hesitate and often do recommend PSA.

Roger. I've shot nothing but steel through the ones I've built and own and have yet to have a failure. Not discounting your experiances at all. It's a good entry level rifle - I have steered many people away from the DPMS crap and towards them for the last 3 years or so. My personal go to is Daniel Defense.

 

[goteron]

Dixie, serious question. How are you determining Mil-Spec for parts that you look at / replace?

 

[dixiejarhead]

Dixie, serious question. How are you determining Mil-Spec for parts that you look at / replace?

Some of them you can just look at and tell they're not spec. Plastic trigger guards, roll pins where tapered pins should be, improperly staked carrier key or parts that should be chromed when they aren't etc. I headspace the barrels with extensions and inspect the bolts as well. Dial calipers if necessary. Inferior parts usually are easy to spot by eye. The extractor pins I used to use a cold chisel and an 1oz hammer on, if it bit then the hardening was less than the chisel and it would bend and therefore bind after a few rounds locking up that BCG with the barrel extension etc. Had several bags of properly hardened ones I just got to the point where I'd almost always change it out. Roll marks too, the MP rollmark goes a long way in helping. Sometimes when I take parts out of the bag, one just does not look right. I know it sounds silly, but I've been dealing with them since age 18 so 25 years worth of seeing what it's supposed to look like sometimes takes over. I also call friends still in the industry if something stumps me. I used to go to church with Marty Daniel of DD, and have one of the first 300 M4V1's he ever built. Old school but still accurate.

 

[gunslinger]

entry level= what about the s7w m&p sport?

 

[SGT_Kramer]

Some of them you can just look at and tell they're not spec. Plastic trigger guards, roll pins where tapered pins should be, improperly staked carrier key or parts that should be chromed when they aren't etc. I headspace the barrels with extensions and inspect the bolts as well. Dial calipers if necessary. Inferior parts usually are easy to spot by eye. The extractor pins I used to use a cold chisel and an 1oz hammer on, if it bit then the hardening was less than the chisel and it would bend and therefore bind after a few rounds locking up that BCG with the barrel extension etc. Had several bags of properly hardened ones I just got to the point where I'd almost always change it out. Roll marks too, the MP rollmark goes a long way in helping. Sometimes when I take parts out of the bag, one just does not look right. I know it sounds silly, but I've been dealing with them since age 18 so 25 years worth of seeing what it's supposed to look like sometimes takes over. I also call friends still in the industry if something stumps me. I used to go to church with Marty Daniel of DD, and have one of the first 300 M4V1's he ever built. Old school but still accurate.

Thats a really well thought out response! We use many of the same methods on known MIL SPEC parts

 

[goteron]

PSA Sending unthreaded castle nuts...

http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_3_118/...o_you_should_probably_know_about_this___.html

 

[dixiejarhead]

PSA Sending unthreaded castle nuts...

http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_3_118/...o_you_should_probably_know_about_this___.html

Rushing to fill those orders... lol! Surprised it got past their QC guy. I'm sure they sent him a new one

 

[dixiejarhead]

Thats a really well thought out response! We use many of the same methods on known MIL SPEC parts

Still teaching the same way at Aberdeen?