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  • thperez1972

    ESSAYONS
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    One of the "sides" will claim any evidence is fake because it suits their narrative. No way to please everyone. The level of "proof" is subjective but if the US government released what they knew about it and let the world make of it what they will, that would be the better then hiding everything (which is what they usually do).

    I agree with what you are saying. My position is not all proof should be released. I find it highly inappropriate to release photos of dead Americans just so you or I can say "yep, that's a dead body." I have to imagine most people would prefer that to not happen if it were their family member. Neither you nor I should be entitled to see their medical records. And it's a little perverse to expect the government to parade around the deceased person's family so that others can use their grieving to back up the government's statement. Multiple people have talked about wanting to see evidence but I don't recall anyone offering what proof they would be wiling to accept. One person mentioned having the information verified by a credible source but won't provide a list of credible sources. It's almost like some people want so desperately to believe it is false they will make sure they leave themselves a way to dismiss any information. They're determined to believe the government is always lying rather than be willing to look at the information itself and think for themselves.
     

    GunRelated

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    I agree with what you are saying. My position is not all proof should be released. I find it highly inappropriate to release photos of dead Americans just so you or I can say "yep, that's a dead body." I have to imagine most people would prefer that to not happen if it were their family member. Neither you nor I should be entitled to see their medical records. And it's a little perverse to expect the government to parade around the deceased person's family so that others can use their grieving to back up the government's statement. Multiple people have talked about wanting to see evidence but I don't recall anyone offering what proof they would be wiling to accept. One person mentioned having the information verified by a credible source but won't provide a list of credible sources. It's almost like some people want so desperately to believe it is false they will make sure they leave themselves a way to dismiss any information. They're determined to believe the government is always lying rather than be willing to look at the information itself and think for themselves.
    Honestly, I wish I didn't have to question everything that our government(s) say. If they didn't have such a long track record of using false propaganda to start wars, maybe, just maybe, we could trust what they say when they say it.
     

    GunRelated

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    Could you provide a list of all of the credible sources?
    No, I can't, unfortunately. Any information in this age is to be considered tainted because all humans have the ability to be bought or manipulated.
    The only credible source we actually have is ourselves. We cannot be so quick to believe anything we see in video, photo, audio, or text; all of it has the ability to be falsely created with the inability to determine the difference between reality or illusion.
    You may say, well there is software that can detect these digital manipulations, to which I would say, if you believe that the government does not have the ability to create, while also retaining the ability to remain unidentifiable via digital artifacts, well, that is your right to believe such things, I do not.

    Question everything. We live in a false reality that is manipulated at every level.
    It's best, for me at least, to not hold opinions or to cast judgement so quickly because I have witnessed enough to know better.
    I feel that the world will witness a major conflict very soon, though. Regardless of what any of us believe. There is no stopping this train. Let's hope that, in due time, someone can call me out for saying this because it didn't come to fruition.
     

    thperez1972

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    No, I can't, unfortunately. Any information in this age is to be considered tainted because all humans have the ability to be bought or manipulated.
    The only credible source we actually have is ourselves. We cannot be so quick to believe anything we see in video, photo, audio, or text; all of it has the ability to be falsely created with the inability to determine the difference between reality or illusion.
    You may say, well there is software that can detect these digital manipulations, to which I would say, if you believe that the government does not have the ability to create, while also retaining the ability to remain unidentifiable via digital artifacts, well, that is your right to believe such things, I do not.
    Question everything. We live in a false reality that is manipulated at every level.
    It's best, for me at least, to not hold opinions or to cast judgement so quickly because I have witnessed enough to know better.
    I feel that the world will witness a major conflict very soon, though. Regardless of what any of us believe. There is no stopping this train. Let's hope that, in due time, someone can call me out for saying this because it didn't come to fruition.

    That's what I've been saying. You've set up a scenario that allows you to ignore any information that doesn't fit your opinion. You simply ignore it without having to evaluate it by saying the messenger is not credible.
     

    GunRelated

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    That's what I've been saying. You've set up a scenario that allows you to ignore any information that doesn't fit your opinion. You simply ignore it without having to evaluate it by saying the messenger is not credible.
    I don't have an opinion to fit here. It would not matter if Pakistan, Iran, Egypt, turkey, China, Russia, Israel, UK, Germany, or (pick a country) were to make a claim that would justify conflict, it should still be considered propaganda until proven otherwise. I do not care about Israel, I do not care about Pakistan, I do not care about Ukraine, I do not care about any other country, I hold no solid opinions on any other country or any government, other than I know that they cannot be trusted to tell the truth when it involves conflict.

    Good thing we got those WMDs out of Iraq, good thing we avenged those Syrian people that were gassed by their own government, good thing the ghost of Ukraine shot down all those Russian Jets, good thing we also avenged all those babies that were killed in their incubators, good thing we avenged the surprise attack on pearl harbor, good thing we avenged the sinking of the Lucitania....I'm here all day. (not really, I'm about to go to bed and rest easy knowing that I didn't fall for any propaganda today)
     

    thperez1972

    ESSAYONS
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    I don't have an opinion to fit here.

    But you do and you've expressed it. You believe the government is making up the story about Americans being killed because you have not seen the proof first hand and because the statement has not been verified by an unknown credible source. If you didn't have an opinion, you wouldn't have chimed in with *allegedly*.
     

    GunRelated

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    But you do and you've expressed it. You believe the government is making up the story about Americans being killed because you have not seen the proof first hand and because the statement has not been verified by an unknown credible source. If you didn't have an opinion, you wouldn't have chimed in with *allegedly*.
    You asked me if I believed any Americans were killed, to which I answered, I don't know. Maybe they were, maybe they weren't. I never said I did not believe it happened. I'm just not going to jump to that conclusion based solely off of an entity's word that is known for lying about such things.
     

    thperez1972

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    You asked me if I believed any Americans were killed, to which I answered, I don't know. Maybe they were, maybe they weren't. I never said I did not believe it happened. I'm just not going to jump to that conclusion based solely off of an entity's word that is known for lying about such things.

    "I don't have a solid foundation to place an opinion." - GunRelated
    If you believe it happened, then you have an opinion. If you believe it didn't happen, you have an opinion. Having an opinion is not jumping to a conclusion. If you don't have a solid foundation to place an opinion, then you don't have a solid foundation to place on opinion. So let's see if your foundation has gotten any more solid in the last few days.

    While your at it,also Google the USS LIBERTY,Palestinians never killed Americans, but israel has..

    As far as we know, Palestinians have killed 31 Americans with 13 Americans still unaccounted for.
     

    GunRelated

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    Alleged footage of Gaza hospital that was blown up

    a47a1fb32937415983eaee6c33c2498e.jpg
     

    enigmedic

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    Sep 14, 2010
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    It's hard getting to them man.
    My wife is from a huge Christian community in palestine Bethlehem and they will tell u the exact same thing..I'm not sure how these people can support there Christian and catholic brothers getting oppressed by israel.

    On a side note,in palestine you're free to talk about Jesus..in israel,they're talking about passing a law to Jail anyone who speaks or trys to spread the gospel..
    Provide a citation for that "passing a law" gossip. You obviously did not fact check or attempt to verify it. That actually sounded credible to you?
     

    enigmedic

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    Why would Israel stop the thousands of Christians that visit every year for saying Jesus? And what would they do with the Christian Churches?
    If someone actually proposed that, it’s not going anywhere.
    BS Flag!
    Exactly! If bad news rides a fast horse, then fear mongering rumor rides an SR-71. The sad part is that the Gaza sympathizers couldn't find Israel on a map, much less accurately discuss its history, much least been to Israel.
    It concerns me when someone who is naive / gullible enough to believe THAT tabloid rumor is interested in firearms.
     
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    enigmedic

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    Sep 14, 2010
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    It was not taken from the shooters perspective. The soldier was opposite of the camera, and you can see them momentarily. The shot was towards the crowd and camera.

    It's not OK to shoot a seemingly unarmed person who is retreating, even if people get away with it from time to time.

    My point was that it's complicated and it's not just pure Muslim hatred, due to religion or genetics, that has caused this war.

    If a person judges Islam over it's "hatred of Christians" then why not Judaism or Israel over theirs? Instead people are calling for genocide of everyone who was born into one group, and they want to send their neighbors children into war for the other who is guilty of just as much "hatred of Christians."

    There is some evidence in those links, and we havent even gotten into TV/Media/Music and its affect on American culture.

    Murder isnt the only way to wrong a person that matters....

    It's not like every person born into either religion is actully evil, most of them are decent whether we understand their culture or not.

    I just don't want us funding anything or sending people or weapons anywhere, not Ukraine or Israel.

    We don't need to send American kids there and into war, 2 of my little cousins are there already.

    We can stay out of it, we have $33000000000000 in debt and no ability to pay it back...tax payer debt, we have to worry about our own nation now.

    We're a few EMPs away from self-destruction, and Israel might just have been a test run....
    Exactly what research of the incident did you do before replying? Do you even know when and where that occurred? Do you know the unit that was involved? You could simply say that you support unprovoked terrorist attacks of women and children by anyone who considers themselves a victim. There, that was a lot easier than you having to upload videos and type an apologist's filibuster. BTW: it's NOT a complicated topic; Gazan's violated their Abraham Accord and started hostilities.
     
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