[
"They" know that M193 works just fine... but not in 1/7 barrels. Basically, "they" can either develop a new bullet with sufficient lethality, or they can re-barrel a gazillion M-16s and M-4s. Either way, the cost involved will astronomical.
.[/QUOTE]
They have the answer. The answer is MK 262 Mod 0, aka the 77gr Sierra Match King Round. I hate to sound like a fan boy but simply put the 77gr bullet is the deadliest thiong I have ever seen leave an AR. There are a few problems with it however. One is it's a COTS item, i.e. Commercial Of The Shelf and its expensive. America is not at war America's Military is. Everyone else is making money of a war. It's not like WWII when the War Dept could say to Sierra " we need a bunch of those bullets so were going to give your Techincal Data Package to Alcoa so they can make them by the millions." Another big issue is understanding the way Ammo is procured, stored and used by the Army.
The SS109 in use in Iraq right now is old, we use ammo and Explosives from the '50's, 60's, 70's, and 80's routinely. This ammo was manufactured to fight WWIII and stored in Climate Controlled Bunkers all over the place. Contrary to popular belief Winchester is not banging out 5.56 rounds and sending them straight to the land of Dirka Dirka. Kinda ruins the whole ammo cost more and is harder to find because theres a war on argument huh? The DOD has no means to switch gears on its logistical leviathan.
The biggest breakdown is a larger issue; the Small Arms Industry in this country has been ruined by Archane Laws and stupidity. Think about it:
- The AR platform, 1950's Technology.
-The M240 series, 1950's Belgian Technology.
-The M249, 1970's Belgian Tech.
-The M9, 1970's Italian Tech.
-The M2, nearly 100 year old Tech!!!
There is not alot of incentive for private enterprise to fund the R&D of new weapons inovation including ammo. Why bother working on Military Small Arms, you won't be able to sell them privately. You can't export your product to overseas customers. Sure every once in awhile the DOD will ask for and fund a program, the problem is when they pay for it they control it and its development. The Army Tank and Automotive Command holds yes and no authority and a line item veto. Guys the Army is very good at warfighting. Private industry, motivated by profit, is good at inovating. Why don't we let the Army fight and the geeks geek. It's really mind-numbing. Right now 100's of millions are being spent on a replacment for the M2 nobody really wants and very little cash is being spent on improving or replacing a small arm everybody wants tweaked!
The jihadis do not respect the individual soldier weapons that we currently field. I have heard it from their own mouths. They will run from our crew served stuff(especially Ma Duece), they think our Arty and CAS are the hand God and they do respect our Grunts. They do not fear our rifles. Because of that they don't mind engaging small units in close combat.
That is sad. I like the AR. I would like it better with a 16" Barrel and a piston gas system. I wish every single bullet in every single magazine in Iraq and A-stan was a 77gr Open Tip bullet, If I was king I would also replace the SAW and the DMRs with something chambered in 6.5 Grendel(my favorite of the "new" intermediate rounds). I also think we need to revisit the bullpup. They Ateyr Aug has a full 20" Barrel ans an overall length shorter than an M4. Why are the Austrians figuring stuff out that we can't? The 240 is still badass and I don't think it needs fixing. Surely to god we could come up with something as simple and reliable as the M2, chambered in the lords own non-airbursting .50 cal BMG round , yet lighter and able to be broken down and man-packed when needed. If we are going to keep using the line that we don't use JHP ammo(alot of .mil people actually do) then we need to replace the 9mm handguns with something bigger. My pick would be the Glock 22. It is already in use by members of the Army SOF community.
All that being said until the way the machine works is changed nothing meaningful will change. Ever wonder why we don't have Plasma Rifles in the 40watt range yet? Let the DOD announce a need for it and run an open bid process. Outline what the end result should be and thats it. Let the Engiqueers figure it out on their own. Allow whoever can build a working prototype to enter a submission and announce the fact that several million units will be purchased over the span of a given period. Do that and watch how fast we will be zapping folks with hot goo. Unfortunately that is almost exactly opposite of the way things really work.
"They" know that M193 works just fine... but not in 1/7 barrels. Basically, "they" can either develop a new bullet with sufficient lethality, or they can re-barrel a gazillion M-16s and M-4s. Either way, the cost involved will astronomical.
.[/QUOTE]
They have the answer. The answer is MK 262 Mod 0, aka the 77gr Sierra Match King Round. I hate to sound like a fan boy but simply put the 77gr bullet is the deadliest thiong I have ever seen leave an AR. There are a few problems with it however. One is it's a COTS item, i.e. Commercial Of The Shelf and its expensive. America is not at war America's Military is. Everyone else is making money of a war. It's not like WWII when the War Dept could say to Sierra " we need a bunch of those bullets so were going to give your Techincal Data Package to Alcoa so they can make them by the millions." Another big issue is understanding the way Ammo is procured, stored and used by the Army.
The SS109 in use in Iraq right now is old, we use ammo and Explosives from the '50's, 60's, 70's, and 80's routinely. This ammo was manufactured to fight WWIII and stored in Climate Controlled Bunkers all over the place. Contrary to popular belief Winchester is not banging out 5.56 rounds and sending them straight to the land of Dirka Dirka. Kinda ruins the whole ammo cost more and is harder to find because theres a war on argument huh? The DOD has no means to switch gears on its logistical leviathan.
The biggest breakdown is a larger issue; the Small Arms Industry in this country has been ruined by Archane Laws and stupidity. Think about it:
- The AR platform, 1950's Technology.
-The M240 series, 1950's Belgian Technology.
-The M249, 1970's Belgian Tech.
-The M9, 1970's Italian Tech.
-The M2, nearly 100 year old Tech!!!
There is not alot of incentive for private enterprise to fund the R&D of new weapons inovation including ammo. Why bother working on Military Small Arms, you won't be able to sell them privately. You can't export your product to overseas customers. Sure every once in awhile the DOD will ask for and fund a program, the problem is when they pay for it they control it and its development. The Army Tank and Automotive Command holds yes and no authority and a line item veto. Guys the Army is very good at warfighting. Private industry, motivated by profit, is good at inovating. Why don't we let the Army fight and the geeks geek. It's really mind-numbing. Right now 100's of millions are being spent on a replacment for the M2 nobody really wants and very little cash is being spent on improving or replacing a small arm everybody wants tweaked!
The jihadis do not respect the individual soldier weapons that we currently field. I have heard it from their own mouths. They will run from our crew served stuff(especially Ma Duece), they think our Arty and CAS are the hand God and they do respect our Grunts. They do not fear our rifles. Because of that they don't mind engaging small units in close combat.
That is sad. I like the AR. I would like it better with a 16" Barrel and a piston gas system. I wish every single bullet in every single magazine in Iraq and A-stan was a 77gr Open Tip bullet, If I was king I would also replace the SAW and the DMRs with something chambered in 6.5 Grendel(my favorite of the "new" intermediate rounds). I also think we need to revisit the bullpup. They Ateyr Aug has a full 20" Barrel ans an overall length shorter than an M4. Why are the Austrians figuring stuff out that we can't? The 240 is still badass and I don't think it needs fixing. Surely to god we could come up with something as simple and reliable as the M2, chambered in the lords own non-airbursting .50 cal BMG round , yet lighter and able to be broken down and man-packed when needed. If we are going to keep using the line that we don't use JHP ammo(alot of .mil people actually do) then we need to replace the 9mm handguns with something bigger. My pick would be the Glock 22. It is already in use by members of the Army SOF community.
All that being said until the way the machine works is changed nothing meaningful will change. Ever wonder why we don't have Plasma Rifles in the 40watt range yet? Let the DOD announce a need for it and run an open bid process. Outline what the end result should be and thats it. Let the Engiqueers figure it out on their own. Allow whoever can build a working prototype to enter a submission and announce the fact that several million units will be purchased over the span of a given period. Do that and watch how fast we will be zapping folks with hot goo. Unfortunately that is almost exactly opposite of the way things really work.
