Katrina Gun Confiscation

[oleheat]

But as far as "blown out of proportion"... I think not. A SINGLE law abiding citizen being disarmed, especially when the need of the said firearm is at a heightened level, is crime.

This is all that matters to me. Unless of course you happen believe getting disarmed in that scenario was for your own good.


Apparently, someone agreed- as Eddie Compass went bye-bye, shortly thereafter. Coincidence?

Edwin P. Compass, III is a former Chief of Police of the New Orleans Police Department.

He resigned as Chief of Police on September 27, 2005.[1] Compass, who earlier said he was organizing a tribunal to handle the cases of 249 officers who left their posts without permission during Hurricane Katrina[2], did not give any reason for his resignation. Compass's resignation followed a few days after an emergency injunction was handed down, prohibiting him *from confiscating lawfully-possessed firearms from citizens ... *[3] His actions subsequently led to the passage of the Disaster Recovery Personal Protection Act.

Compass has been widely criticized for not cracking down on corruption in the New Orleans Police Department.

Compass has declared that he was actually forced to resign his post.[4]

https://www.govtrack.us/congress/bills/109/hr5013/text

 

[Hitman]

Were any lawfully armed citizens disarmed (especially in their own homes)
by a leo for the simple act of being armed? probably not.

^THIS^ was my original point.

NOPD ended up with several hundred guns that the NRA petitioned through legal courses
to have released (IIRC) around 2008.

How they got those guns? Numerous ways.

Kicking down doors of occupied homeowners? ... Not that anyone here can attest to.

....and there is a LOT of members here who were THERE.

 

[Emperor]

everytime I hear about this gun confiscation it was "they" and "them" that took guns from "people"

I've yet to hear one example of a lawfully armed citizen being illegally disarmed by authorities, or any declaration that it would be done. The friends and colleagues that were in NO for the storm have stories that are more along the lines of mike84's. I wasn't there, I don't know- but until credible sources are cited I'm of the belief that it didn't happen.


Were firearms seized from empty, damaged, or condemned buildings? probably.
Were firearms taken from citizens that were shooting at news choppers etc? probably.
Were firearms from above categories stolen or "misplaced" by authorities? probably.

Were any lawfully armed citizens disarmed (especially in their own homes) by a leo for the simple act of being armed? probably not.

There is a news clip of a reporter interviewing an army colonel at the staging sight (on the lake side of levee in Bucktown), for the giant sandbags being airlifted to seal the breach at the 17th Street Canal. In that interview he was asked directly about NG units from out of state confiscating firearms from law abiding citizens. He does not deny it was happening, and emphasized that no one in his command was ever ordered to do that; and when pressed with the issue of Unconstitutionality he did say that a soldier in the US armed forces (including reserves), can refuse ANY order that he/she believes is Unconstitutional. That was the first time I had EVER heard that.

It may take some effort, but there are numerous news clips out there somewhere about the illegal confiscations throughout the aftermath.

 

[madwabbit]

There is a news clip of a reporter interviewing an army colonel at the staging sight (on the lake side of levee in Bucktown), for the giant sandbags being airlifted to seal the breach at the 17th Street Canal. In that interview he was asked directly about NG units from out of state confiscating firearms from law abiding citizens. He does not deny it was happening, and emphasized that no one in his command was ever ordered to do that; and when pressed with the issue of Unconstitutionality he did say that a soldier in the US armed forces (including reserves), can refuse ANY order that he/she believes is Unconstitutional. That was the first time I had EVER heard that.

It may take some effort, but there are numerous news clips out there somewhere about the illegal confiscations throughout the aftermath.

orders in direct violation of the constitution are not legitimate orders, even if they come from POTUS

In fact, not only can you refuse to obey such an order, you are downright expected to refuse. This is why trust in the chain of command is so important.

You should be able to trust that such an order will never be given. (and i firmly do, regardless of the impending flaming)

 

[Emperor]

^THIS^ was my original point.

NOPD ended up with several hundred guns that the NRA petitioned through legal courses
to have released (IIRC) around 2008.

How they got those guns? Numerous ways.

Kicking down doors of occupied homeowners? ... Not that anyone here can attest to.

....and there is a LOT of members here who were THERE.

There is news footage that shows NOPD and out of state NG going door to door looking for people that DID NOT EVACUATE! When they refused to leave, their doors were kicked in......what took place after that? Only those present know for sure. In the piece, an NOPD officer is seen telling the news reporter that he had to stop recording and leave the scene.

It may be hard to find now, but it's out there.

 

[SpeedRacer]

As has been pointed out, several guns were taken from empty houses. I only recall one or two people being actually disarmed. In all the hype the two seem to get lumped together to trump up the story.

I do agree it was wrong either way. But for some perspective, post-Katrina New Orleans was an absolute clusterf*ck, in a city that's already a clusterf*ck on it's best day. Certain elements of certain law enforcement agencies made some stupid decisions in the wake of a catastrophic event unlike any that had been previously experienced. Lessons were learned, laws were passed. Time to move on.

 

[madwabbit]

deleted due to speed's excellent post.

As has been pointed out, several guns were taken from empty houses. I only recall one or two people being actually disarmed. In all the hype the two seem to get lumped together to trump up the story.

I do agree it was wrong either way. But for some perspective, post-Katrina New Orleans was an absolute clusterf*ck, in a city that's already a clusterf*ck on it's best day. Certain elements of certain law enforcement agencies made some stupid decisions in the wake of a catastrophic event unlike any that had been previously experienced. Lessons were learned, laws were passed. Time to move on.

bravo. well put.

 

[Emperor]

orders in direct violation of the constitution are not legitimate orders, even if they come from POTUS

In fact, not only can you refuse to obey such an order, you are downright expected to refuse. This is why trust in the chain of command is so important.

You should be able to trust that such an order will never be given. (and i firmly do, regardless of the impending flaming)

That is why this episode in our history is so compelling. There was a fracture in the chains of command on many fronts. There were rogue police and others making the rules as they went. To deny that there was not in retrospect, and with all the video evidence, is insane.

Now, that being stated; there should be a dialogue in our country of what should and shouldn't be expected in the face of another calamity like Katrina. It IS going to happen again. We've had this discussion here multiple times. What ultimate answers the questions is whether you are willing to die at the hands of an armed officer or soldier to prove you are right!

 

[tim9lives]

Anyone who believes that the NOPD did NOT seize homeowners firearms during Katrina is just naive.

Furthermore....Long before Katrina...and before the Feds started to watch the NOPD....The NOPD had a longstanding habit of taking firearms from motorist. The way it went was like this.

They pull you over for a minor traffic infraction....Ask you if you have any firearms...find a handgun...and then ask you for your proof of ownership such as your receipt. If you had no proof of ownership...They would then take your firearm....and tell you that you can pick it up at the evidence room when you go there with said receipt.

They did this to me on 2 occasions. I went to evidence room with receipt...And they "couldn't locate the gun."

But...the guy at the desk would look at my paperwork from officer who wrote the ticket. He'd tell me to come back in a couple of weeks. Low and behold...they'd find the gun in 2 weeks.

It doesn't take a genius to figure out what was going on IMO.

I will say that since Serpas showed up ( and Federal oversight plus Katrina crap)...this kind of theft has ended.

 

[madwabbit]

That is why this episode in our history is so compelling. There was a fracture in the chains of command on many fronts. There were rogue police and others making the rules as they went. To deny that there was not in retrospect, and with all the video evidence, is insane.

Now, that being stated; there should be a dialogue in our country of what should and shouldn't be expected in the face of another calamity like Katrina. It IS going to happen again. We've had this discussion here multiple times. What ultimate answers the questions is whether you are willing to die at the hands of an armed officer or soldier to prove you are right!

We have legal processes for this. If an officer/soldier/etc disarmed me, I'd comply and document to the best ability the situation provided. When the system returns to normal, file charges or complaints afterwards. For example: Nomad knows the guy (apparently) and a list of what was taken. Were charges filed? When "the system" is operating at standard again, make a stink about it????

- - - Updated - - -

Anyone who believes that the NOPD did NOT seize homeowners firearms during Katrina is just naive.

Furthermore....Long before Katrina...and before the Feds started to watch the NOPD....The NOPD had a longstanding habit of taking firearms from motorist. The way it went was like this.

They pull you over for a minor traffic infraction....Ask you if you have any firearms...find a handgun...and then ask you for your proof of ownership such as your receipt. If you had no proof of ownership...They would then take your firearm....and tell you that you can pick it up at the evidence room when you go there with said receipt.

They did this to me on 2 occasions. I went to evidence room with receipt...And they "couldn't locate the gun."

But...the guy at the desk would look at my paperwork from officer who wrote the ticket. He'd tell me to come back in a couple of weeks. Low and behold...they'd find the gun in 2 weeks.

It doesn't take a genius to figure out what was going on IMO.

I will say that since Serpas showed up ( and Federal oversight plus Katrina crap)...this kind of theft has ended.

why didn't you call an attorney and press charges? if it was mainstream that could have gone class action.

 

[Nomad.2nd]

That doesn't make any sense. What state was the trooper from?

JR1572

He was a LA state trooper, who was in a LA NG uniform at the time.

When I tried to pursue action against him each organization pointed to the other as the one to "deal with it"

He WAS 'invited' to leave (not retire, didn't have enough) the Staties though...

I consider it a minor win, and an isolated incident, NOT what everyone's ranting about.
Was more remarking on the fact I didn't notice him asking.

 

[Vanilla Gorilla]

Interesting that they were able to circumvent State Civil Service Law.

 

[Emperor]

We have legal processes for this. If an officer/soldier/etc disarmed me, I'd comply and document to the best ability the situation provided. When the system returns to normal, file charges or complaints afterwards. For example: Nomad knows the guy (apparently) and a list of what was taken. Were charges filed? When "the system" is operating at standard again, make a stink about it????.

But that's the point! If you as an individual law abiding citizen, find yourself in the center of another **** storm and all hell breaks loose a la Katrina, why should you be rendered defenseless? The system can't help you if you are killed before the system is restored.

That's my beef! If it is illegal for some one to disarm me; then don't do it in the first place!

 

[madwabbit]

But that's the point! If you as an individual law abiding citizen, find yourself in the center of another **** storm and all hell breaks loose a la Katrina, why should you be rendered defenseless? The system can't help you if you are killed before the system is restored.

That's my beef! If it is illegal for some one to disarm me; then don't do it in the first place!

my beef is that everyone is so against being disarmed that NO ONE filed a suit over it, despite our overly litigious society and a public outcry over how FEMA, NOPD, and the NG handled Katrina? Give me a break

The way precedent is set is when authorities F up, they get hammered over it in court.

edit to delete bad example

 

[Emperor]

my beef is that everyone is so against being disarmed that NO ONE filed a suit over it, despite our overly litigious society and a public outcry over how FEMA, NOPD, and the NG handled Katrina? Give me a break

The way precedent is set is when authorities F up, they get hammered over it in court.

Something WAS done! They passed Legislation both nationally and locally to prohibit government agencies from illegally seizing law abiding citizens guns during emergencies. It was all over the news!

But again, if there is lawlessness at the levels of government again like Katrina, then you're back to square one. And if you announce the old Charlie Heston line, "From my cold dead hands!"; you might just be obliged by an overzealous or scared shitless young infantryman or police officer.

Think this: "Put your guns down!" "You put your guns down!" "I'm not joking!" "Neither am I!"

 

[340six]

As has been pointed out, several guns were taken from empty houses. I only recall one or two people being actually disarmed. In all the hype the two seem to get lumped together to trump up the story.

I do agree it was wrong either way. But for some perspective, post-Katrina New Orleans was an absolute clusterf*ck, in a city that's already a clusterf*ck on it's best day. Certain elements of certain law enforcement agencies made some stupid decisions in the wake of a catastrophic event unlike any that had been previously experienced. Lessons were learned, laws were passed. Time to move on.

Smartest thing I read on this thread.
I can not blame them for doing their job, so much was being stolen.
I went twice to New Orleans after it happened it was a crazy place. I knew a few that were stick in the mess who said that the bus deal was do to persons trying to get on with tons of stolen stuff.
You were allowed to get on and put what ever would fit above and below the set and on ya lap.
Most everyone was refusing to get on since they could not take more. They were turning them around.
The trips i did make to help someone with Id showing they were supposed top be there and were getting there own stuff were treated well by everyone that stopped us.
Not trying to be a kiss Azz here and going off subject
Being in Jefferson Parish and Kenner was great the Parish Police, Kenner City Police and National Guard were 100% professional!
Every time I went to my damaged home to salvage what I could and clean up I was stopped. They were nice asked what I was doing / where I was going.
I gave them Id when asked and told them I was armed. They thanked me and let me go on my way. Even asked if I wanted a bottle of water ect many times.
New Orleans always runs things there way, and I limit trips there for that reason.

 

[oscar615]

So if you don't have a receipt? Lost, thrown away, or for whatever reason. Or if the receipt was destroyed in the flood? Then what?



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[Hitman]

So if you don't have a receipt? Lost, thrown away, or for whatever reason.
Or if the receipt was destroyed in the flood? Then what?

Sent from my SCH-I545 using Tapatalk

Upon the 2008 agreement between the NRA, the SAF and the City of New Orleans;

Gun owners must sign an affidavit claiming ownership of a gun
but don't need to present written proof, such as a sales receipt or serial number.
A background check also is required to certify that someone claiming a gun can legally possess a firearm.

 

[cajun_64]

Upon the 2008 agreement between the NRA, the SAF and the City of New Orleans;

So the new standard is guilty until proven innocent??

 

[Hitman]

So the new standard is guilty until proven innocent??

Well like it's already been said,

**** kinda hit the fan and things went side-wayz,
but a lot of folks learned a lot of valuable lessons.