LEO input please.....

[Nolacopusmc]

Don't take this one the wrong way nola but I can't agree with this statement. If our country had agreed with this all along we wouldn't even be here.

I understand and agree with what you are saying, but that is not what I meant. ishould have worded that differently.

People live in an alternate reality sometime. That does not change what the rest of the world lives in. If you want a new reality, work on changing it while still functioning within the current.

 

[jetmech1983]

I understand and agree with what you are saying, but that is not what I meant. ishould have worded that differently.

People live in an alternate reality sometime. That does not change what the rest of the world lives in. If you want a new reality, work on changing it while still functioning within the current.

I can agree with that one completely now that it has been reworded.

 

[Nolacopusmc]

I don't need rhetoric, the law will suffice.

You should have took the whole hour...you still do not get it, but guys like you never do.

So what will you do if cop demands you to place your hands on your head so he can disarm you, and in your opinion, he should not...you gonna shoot him?

Since you "will not consent to being disarmed"

 

[Nolacopusmc]

Isn't that what we are doing?


Question#1: Is oc legal?

Question 2: Have the courts determined that detaining or arresting someone soley for oc'ing is unlawful?

Question#3: Is seizing someone's property without consent or probable cause a violation of the forth ammendment?

He hotshot....you are at 9, I need you at about 7. get with the program.

1. Yes it is

2. NO ONE WAS ARRESTED AND NO ONE HERE SAID YOU SHOULD BE ARRESTED FOR OC. You are making yourt own argument against yourself. Please do not invoke the memory of MEM. You are making the same asinine arguments that he does. STick with the program.

3. No it is not, and if you would have spent the time to research what i told you too, you would know that, but then you would not get to a poke out your little bird chest and sing the OC anthem.


Look around guy, I am not your enemy, but you sound like a poorly educated talking head. Educate yourself and speak as such. You got all the big words down, you are just using them in the wrong place.

 

[Nolacopusmc]

I will follow instructions, I will not resist arrest. I will also verbalize my lack of consent for the seizure loud enough that my recorder hears it along with the entire encounter. It will then be submitted as evidence in a civil rights violation suit. I would rather avoid that altogether, however if a LEO violates the LAW that he or she is responsible for enforcing I will not let it stand. Leo's must be held to the same laws. IGNORANCE OF THE LAW IS NO EXCUSE.

Nice, I want to put that on a business card and hand it out at gin shows and Renaissance Fairs.





But that would be the best way for a guy like you to play it. Good job.

 

[W1nds0rF0x]

I need more information on this up coming GIN show....



Will there be tonic?

 

[Nolacopusmc]

This is pointless. The law says what it says. OC is legal, the courts have determined that stopping,detaining, or arresting someone for oc is illegal. Seizing someone's property during an illegal detainment is a violation of the forth ammendment. There go those pesky laws again. If you are going to resort to name calling since facts and law are not to your liking, I'm done. I will continue to exercise my rights, and anyone who attempts to violate them will become aquainted with the law.

OK, thanks for playing.

 

[Jimmy Dean]

He hotshot....you are at 9, I need you at about 7. get with the program.

1. Yes it is

2. NO ONE WAS ARRESTED AND NO ONE HERE SAID YOU SHOULD BE ARRESTED FOR OC. You are making yourt own argument against yourself. Please do not invoke the memory of MEM. You are making the same asinine arguments that he does. STick with the program.

3. No it is not, and if you would have spent the time to research what i told you too, you would know that, but then you would not get to a poke out your little bird chest and sing the OC anthem.


Look around guy, I am not your enemy, but you sound like a poorly educated talking head. Educate yourself and speak as such. You got all the big words down, you are just using them in the wrong place.

Nola, I like you man, (you are kinda cute.......j/j....) But, you adressed the fact that noone was arrested in the linked post. Which is true, BUT, he was, by legal terminology, detained.

I do not have the court docs handy right now, I guess that I need to get them, and I am being too lazy to look them up atm, but we discussed on this board some time in the last year, a case where is was stated that it is unlawful for a LEO to stop and detain a citizen performing legal activity (the case was about someone being detained for OCing) for no other reason than the actions the citizen is partaking in.

On those grounds, without PC or RS of an actual crime being committed, having been committed, or being able to articulate RS for one about to be committed (and no, OCing is not RS for future criminal activity) then that detention, unconsented searching of their person, or disarming (which is seizing of property, even if for the officer's safety) is a violation of the 4th.

Now, to something else that you mentioned, what IF some LEO does decide to detain me for OC'ing, and points his gun at my chest, my head, my balls, or my little toe, I will comply with nearly any order he gives me until such time that the situation is diffused (us going our seperate ways) and I will attempt to settle/rectify the situation through his chain of command or the court of law if need be at a later date........it is not the time or place to get into a semantic argument about the letter or intent of the law while someone has a gun pointed at you.......

 

[Nolacopusmc]

Nola, I like you man, (you are kinda cute.......j/j....) But, you adressed the fact that noone was arrested in the linked post. Which is true, BUT, he was, by legal terminology, detained.

I do not have the court docs handy right now, I guess that I need to get them, and I am being too lazy to look them up atm, but we discussed on this board some time in the last year, a case where is was stated that it is unlawful for a LEO to stop and detain a citizen performing legal activity (the case was about someone being detained for OCing) for no other reason than the actions the citizen is partaking in.

On those grounds, without PC or RS of an actual crime being committed, having been committed, or being able to articulate RS for one about to be committed (and no, OCing is not RS for future criminal activity) then that detention, unconsented searching of their person, or disarming (which is seizing of property, even if for the officer's safety) is a violation of the 4th.

Now, to something else that you mentioned, what IF some LEO does decide to detain me for OC'ing, and points his gun at my chest, my head, my balls, or my little toe, I will comply with nearly any order he gives me until such time that the situation is diffused (us going our seperate ways) and I will attempt to settle/rectify the situation through his chain of command or the court of law if need be at a later date........it is not the time or place to get into a semantic argument about the letter or intent of the law while someone has a gun pointed at you.......

Man, it is a sad day for you NRAMARINE, when JIMMYDEANAIRNATIONALGUARD figures it out before you.

Damn.

Jimmy, that is what I was trying to get him to realize. he had is mind wrapped around the holy grail of legal ignorance..PROBABLE CAUSE.

In this particular case (WHICH WE TRULY HAVE NO IDEA ABOUT THE CIRCUMSTANCES) if we take it as the poor little boy was walking like the ALL AMERICAN white boy to pick some milk up for his sick momma, and the mean cop jumped from his booth that he was wedged into, knocking over his 64oz Big Gulp, of diet coke, and dumping 3lbs of donut cruumbs from his chest to whip out his gat and point it "all gangsta style" at the unsuspecting lad, then yeah....he did not have reasonable suspicion and that was an illegal detainment.

Howeer, let me say once again, we have one side of the story from a 19 year old who knew more about the officers' weapon can't and....you get the picture.

We never have the while story even when we have the whole story. Like I said initially, it sounds to me like the officers might have over reacted, but I was not there and do not know what cures may have made them think pulling their guns was necessary.

i am not saying they were right or wrong, I am just saying based solely on the "story" given to us, if I felt the need to approach him, I probably would not have done so pointing my gun at him.
i may have had my hand on it, but again, I was not there.

 

[George]

are there Cliff's Notes for this thread?

 

[Bayoupiper]

Nice, I want to put that on a business card and hand it out at gin shows and Renaissance Fairs.

We OC swords at Ren Faires.






.

 

[Bayoupiper]

are there Cliff's Notes for this thread?

The usual.

Couple of guys think OC is legal everywhere, all the time, and cops aren't worthy of being in their presence let alone asking them a question.




.

 

[spanky]

are there Cliff's Notes for this thread?

Basically, it's equivalent to an argument between Albert Einstein and a bus full of Forrest Gump clones.

 

[Bayoupiper]

Basically, it's equivalent to an argument between Albert Einstein and a bus full of Forrest Gump clones.

*Rimshot*






.

 

[f350drvr]

Basically, it's equivalent to an argument between Albert Einstein and a bus full of Forrest Gump clones.

LOL, that about sums it up.

"Stupid is as stupid does"

 

[RCRAMIE]

Jimmy, that is what I was trying to get him to realize. he had is mind wrapped around the holy grail of legal ignorance..PROBABLE CAUSE.

Then just say it. He was getting at the same thing as you just didn't use the right wording. Or do we have to listen to 20+ post because somebody didn't use the right terms? Just point out his small error and move on do we need to go through the whole car is extension of you home thing again?

 

[Sin-ster]

Hell Bo, I have no idea how the encounter really went. And neither do any of the doofs who were volunteering to pay for an attorney for the OP on the OC site.

...

Something missing here fellas. But hey, it's the internet.

Frankly, I feel threatened by the whole story. Can anyone pony up so that I can sue the cops too?

Agreed, the story stinks. I see where you're coming from now, and we're on the same page. It's only kind of bothersome that we won't ever know all of the details-- but not such a bad thing, so we can kill this thread off for good.

If I cover the first lawsuit, and you win, will you cover the next one on my behalf?

 

[charliepapa]

This is pointless. The law says what it says. OC is legal, the courts have determined that stopping,detaining, or arresting someone for oc is illegal. Seizing someone's property during an illegal detainment is a violation of the forth ammendment. There go those pesky laws again. If you are going to resort to name calling since facts and law are not to your liking, I'm done. I will continue to exercise my rights, and anyone who attempts to violate them will become aquainted with the law.

I have attracted a lot of attention a few times before in my life, and didn't much care for it. Maybe it's the wisdom that comes with a little age, but I really do try to keep a low profile now and not attract attention to myself. That said, I'm more than willing to give up educating all the LEO's of the world on the letter of the constitution to negate the risk of continually popping up on their radar, when I could have just been blending in with the background scenery in a nice Hawaiian shirt. FWIW, that's my 2 cents.

 

[Nolacopusmc]

I have attracted a lot of attention a few times before in my life, and didn't much care for it. Maybe it's the wisdom that comes with a little age, but I really do try to keep a low profile now and not attract attention to myself. That said, I'm more than willing to give up educating all the LEO's of the world on the letter of the constitution to negate the risk of continually popping up on their radar, when I could have just been blending in with the background scenery in a nice Hawaiian shirt. FWIW, that's my 2 cents.

You fly helicopters and wear Hawaiian shirts....

COuld it be????????

DO you also have a ferrari and carry a 1911?

 

[charliepapa]

BUSTED!

You fly helicopters and wear Hawaiian shirts....

Could it be????????