Liberty Safe gives passcode to federal authorities

[Kraut]

Do we know if Liberty did this under subpoena? Or was it under a request for assistance from one of the federal LEAs involved?

No subpoena, but they are apparently going to start requiring one, and allowing owners to opt out of the program that keeps their code on file, with the understanding that they then won't be able to help the owner gain access if there is a problem.

 

[Bolt Head]

​

If I owned a "Liberty" safe I'd have to get a can of black spray paint and spray over the "ERTY" part of the door to make the name accurate.

 

[GunRelated]

If I owned a "Liberty" safe I'd have to get a can of black spray paint and spray over the "ERTY" part of the door to make the name accurate.

The only similarities I see between liberty, bud light, target, ect, is the poor business model that will cost them in sales. I do not see the liberal connection. The right wing will trample your rights just as quickly as the left will.

 

[Forgotten]

Well let's see if liberty safes are still in business in a year or two. Not saying they don't make a great product but I won't be buying any in the future.

 

[Bolt Head]

The only similarities I see between liberty, bud light, target, ect, is the poor business model that will cost them in sales. I do not see the liberal connection. The right wing will trample your rights just as quickly as the left will.

It was just a joke, man. LOL
We smart folks know RINOs are the left's favorites.

 

[dantheman]

Well let's see if liberty safes are still in business in a year or two. Not saying they don't make a great product but I won't be buying any in the future.

There's no doubt in my mind that they will still be around . A lot of people either agree with what they did , or just don't care .

 

[AustinBR]

There's no doubt in my mind that they will still be around . A lot of people either agree with what they did , or just don't care .

I'm going to be the odd one out on this...but...I don't particularly care about Liberty proactively working with the FBI to get a safe open. It's clear that the FBI knew that Liberty had the means to easily and non-destructively open the safe. They've probably worked together before. Knowing that Liberty has backup codes to safes, the FBI would have immediately asked a court to compel the company to provide the codes.

If the FBI wants to get into a safe, they are getting into the safe. In this case, Liberty complying saved the FBI guys some time to prepare a warrant or it prevented them from breaking the safe open.

What I don't like is that Liberty had not (to my knowledge) made it publically known that they kept backup/master codes to all safes that they made. That's not cool.

Aside from the above, it's my understanding that Liberty makes best in class safes at different price points. I imagine they'll still get plenty of business.

 

[hotbiggun]

There's no doubt in my mind that they will still be around . A lot of people either agree with what they did , or just don't care .

I doubt the guys who agree with liberty own guns.

 

[thperez1972]

So just to try to narrow down the problem. Is it because they turned over the codes? Or because they turned over the codes without a subpoena? Or something else?

 

[323MAR]

I personally don't understand the need to open that safe. Was he hiding in it? Did he take any firearms into the Capital? Were they looking for a murder weapon?
It looks to me like they were simply trying to be mean. Perhaps they miss bullying the nerds and girls during middle school. Maybe they should have stolen their jewelry as well. Firearms are valuables as well.

 

[DBMJR1]

I personally don't understand the need to open that safe. Was he hiding in it? Did he take any firearms into the Capital? Were they looking for a murder weapon?
It looks to me like they were simply trying to be mean. Perhaps they miss bullying the nerds and girls during middle school. Maybe they should have stolen their jewelry as well. Firearms are valuables as well.

Tossing his house was a punishment for being in DC on Jan 6th.

It's my opinion that the Jan 6th trials will be remembered as the Salem Witch Trials of our time.

 

[hotbiggun]

So just to try to narrow down the problem. Is it because they turned over the codes? Or because they turned over the codes without a subpoena? Or something else?

It is because #1 they installed backdoors into peoples safes then #2 had no issues handing over that info to a rogue law enforcement agency.

 

[thperez1972]

I personally don't understand the need to open that safe. Was he hiding in it? Did he take any firearms into the Capital? Were they looking for a murder weapon?
It looks to me like they were simply trying to be mean. Perhaps they miss bullying the nerds and girls during middle school. Maybe they should have stolen their jewelry as well. Firearms are valuables as well.

What they were looking for should be in the warrant. Was that ever made public? And people put more than firearms in a safe.

 

[thperez1972]

It is because #1 they installed backdoors into peoples safes then #2 had no issues handing over that info to a rogue law enforcement agency.

So it's not about the actual handing over of information. It's about how they felt while doing it. In other words, if the feds brought them a subpoena for the information, you'd be ok if they were frowning when they turned it over but you'd have an issue if were smiling.

As far as #1, I agree.

 

[dantheman]

I doubt the guys who agree with liberty own guns.

I've seen support for Liberty and apathy about the situation on other gun boards .

 

[hotbiggun]

So it's not about the actual handing over of information. It's about how they felt while doing it. In other words, if the feds brought them a subpoena for the information, you'd be ok if they were frowning when they turned it over but you'd have an issue if were smiling.

As far as #1, I agree.

If Liberty were my company and im selling product to protect your privacy and valuables i would tell the FBI to get a subpoena then after the proper paperwork was filed i would fight the subpeona in court. It would tie things up for months and the FBI would break the safe before then(if they indeed had a warrant for the contents) my company's reputation would remain intact and the FBI would still be able to go full jack boot thug on the protester.

 

[Manimal]

The only similarities I see between liberty, bud light, target, ect, is the poor business model that will cost them in sales. I do not see the liberal connection. The right wing will trample your rights just as quickly as the left will.

Don't forget the donation list in the screenshot you posted, numerous donations to liberals...some very radical liberals.

 

[thperez1972]

If Liberty were my company and im selling product to protect your privacy and valuables i would tell the FBI to get a subpoena then after the proper paperwork was filed i would fight the subpeona in court. It would tie things up for months and the FBI would break the safe before then(if they indeed had a warrant for the contents) my company's reputation would remain intact and the FBI would still be able to go full jack boot thug on the protester.

On what grounds would you fight the subpoena?

 

[hotbiggun]

On what grounds would you fight the subpoena?

The same argument used by apple, only change a few words

[t]he All Writs Act does not provide a basis to conscript Liberty Safes to create a back door enabling the government to hack into liberty safes and that the Order “would violate the First Amendment and the Fifth Amendment's Due Process clause
The ethical issue in this case is user privacy and government overreach into that user's privacy. The government's attempt to force a tech company to create a back door into a secure product could set a dangerous precedent for future companies.

 

[thperez1972]

The same argument used by apple, only change a few words

[t]he All Writs Act does not provide a basis to conscript Liberty Safes to create a back door enabling the government to hack into liberty safes and that the Order “would violate the First Amendment and the Fifth Amendment's Due Process clause
The ethical issue in this case is user privacy and government overreach into that user's privacy. The government's attempt to force a tech company to create a back door into a secure product could set a dangerous precedent for future companies.

That's funny. Are you trolling here?

Apple's argument was that no back door existed and they would not create a backdoor. Liberty cannot use that argument. They can't say "you can't make us create a back door" because they already had a back door in place, one they had made voluntarily without being compelled by the government. Liberty's situation is pretty much the exact opposite of Apple's situation. To attempt to shoehorn Apple's excuse into Liberty's situation is laughable.

So really, with your joke excuse now out of the way, what actual, applicable grounds would you use to fight the subpoena?