Post From Vermillion Parish S. O.

[GunRelated]

Didn't mean it offensively at all. I'm not at all judging you or where you have been.
It's just that it is the people who have done the most crime, and had a significant amount of L.E. contacts, that hate them the most. And it's NEVER their own fault for their lifestyle choices, it's ALWAYS the cops who did them wrong.
Weird how that works, huh.

Maybe you didn't take time to read the post that details why it's likely people like myself, that actually has experience in the matter, would hold different views. I never said I hate police. The system in which police are utilized is flawed. This is not a simple subject. Certainly not as simple as, "he doesn't agree with the law and he has a criminal history, so he must hate police because of his own shortcomings"

 

[RussnAttitude]

Maybe you didn't take time to read the post that details why it's likely people like myself, that actually has experience in the matter, would hold different views. I never said I hate police. The system in which police are utilized is flawed. This is not a simple subject. Certainly not as simple as, "he doesn't agree with the law and he has a criminal history, so he must hate police because of his own shortcomings"

What you just stated is exactly what I was thinking as far as the LEO's involved in this thread.. sure seems that way at least.

 

[Mitch Dufour]

I will be glad when this heat wave passes and you good folks can get back shooting guns.

 

[RussnAttitude]

I will be glad when this heat wave passes and you good folks can get back shooting guns.

I got in the yard today and shot my .22 Air rifle out to 70yds. Does that count? Lol

 

[GunRelated]

I will be glad when this heat wave passes and you good folks can get back shooting guns.

It's all in good fun Mitch. But I agree about the heat. Only bad thing is I hate the cold just as much if not more than I hate the heat. I need to move to the Caribbean, or just move their weather here.

 

[Sainte70]

Just so we are both discussing the same thing, would you provide an explanation of unethical charging?

We could win the war on drugs by moving drug use to health and hospitals and removing it from the realm of law enforcement. That would allow for leo's to not have to address the drug issue as their only real means to address it is jail. Distribution should still be a criminal offense. And distribution charges should not be allowed to be reduced to possession charges.

Unethical charging is "pissing off the police" charging. It is writing a running the stop sign ticket when you did not actually see the violation, you're just assuming the sign was run. It is looking for any and every thing you can put against a person when the situation does not warrant it. Everyone has a different level of ethics, I would just hope that what I stated above is a baseline. I always ask myself, "is it right? is it ethical? could I look my captain in the eye OR, articulate/prove on a stand in a court that my actions were correct based on the information I had at that moment?"

I have seen guys try to stretch the circumstances to meet their feelings, I do not do that.

 

[RussnAttitude]

Things like you just stated is exactly why no matter how hard you try, or how good of a person you may or may not be, you will never earn the trust of the general public. We don't know/trust you anymore than you know/trust us.

 

[thperez1972]

This is not unsubstantiated. This goes back well before the internet was even a thing, via illegal wiretaps. Now that we have the Internet, almost all forms of communication are easily intercepted by one entity or another, legally or otherwise. To say that claim in unsubstantiated is crazy talk.

That may be the case for a few exceptions but is unsubstantiated on a widespread basis. And exceptions do not prove the rule.

 

[thperez1972]

If there were no fines involved, profiteering from the citizens, I could probably agree with this. Community service in place of fines would show that this isn't about revenue. This won't happen because I feel confident that it is about revenue, it always is. Maybe not to the officers writing citations, I'm sure most feel like they are doing the right thing. It's the system as a whole. Which, more and more as times goes by, seems to be more about benefiting itself rather than the citizens or the tax payer.

That is a valid argument.

 

[thperez1972]

Unethical charging is "pissing off the police" charging. It is writing a running the stop sign ticket when you did not actually see the violation, you're just assuming the sign was run.

Do you think that is a widespread issue?

It is looking for any and every thing you can put against a person when the situation does not warrant it.

So if someone is stopped on a traffic violation and they don't have a brake tag, they've violated the law that says they must have a valid brake tag. Is putting that on the ticket not warranted?

Everyone has a different level of ethics, I would just hope that what I stated above is a baseline. I always ask myself, "is it right? is it ethical? could I look my captain in the eye OR, articulate/prove on a stand in a court that my actions were correct based on the information I had at that moment?"

That should be a given. But it seems that participants in this discussion feel that behavior is rare.

I have seen guys try to stretch the circumstances to meet their feelings, I do not do that.

I've seen some of your comrades do that in this thread.

 

[Sainte70]

Unethical charging is "pissing off the police" charging. It is writing a running the stop sign ticket when you did not actually see the violation, you're just assuming the sign was run.

Do you think that is a widespread issue?

Not really. it is a good way to lose a solid case. It is usually transparent and makes the officer, his supervisor and the dept look bad.

It is looking for any and every thing you can put against a person when the situation does not warrant it.

So if someone is stopped on a traffic violation and they don't have a brake tag, they've violated the law that says they must have a valid brake tag. Is putting that on the ticket not warranted?

It is warranted but, I use the 90%/10% rule. It is 90% attitude towards me and 10% the violation that usually determines a ticket or how much ink I will use. What I meant by "warranted" is the example someone posted earlier of measuring tread depth. I just do not like piling on.

Everyone has a different level of ethics, I would just hope that what I stated above is a baseline. I always ask myself, "is it right? is it ethical? could I look my captain in the eye OR, articulate/prove on a stand in a court that my actions were correct based on the information I had at that moment?"

That should be a given. But it seems that participants in this discussion feel that behavior is rare.

So is critical thinking and the ability to truly look at one's actions to see if they were the reason for "bad encounters".....

I have seen guys try to stretch the circumstances to meet their feelings, I do not do that.

I've seen some of your comrades do that in this thread.

Indeed

 

[GunRelated]

Popped up on book of faces.. Thought it was fitting for this post.

I'm not sure which is funnier. Now I'm curious to know the origin of the meme.

Laugh a little

 

[thperez1972]

Do you think that is a widespread issue?

Not really. it is a good way to lose a solid case. It is usually transparent and makes the officer, his supervisor and the dept look bad.

I agree. Therefore, the non-existent widespread unethical charging should not be the basis of generalization about police behavior.

So if someone is stopped on a traffic violation and they don't have a brake tag, they've violated the law that says they must have a valid brake tag. Is putting that on the ticket not warranted?

It is warranted but, I use the 90%/10% rule. It is 90% attitude towards me and 10% the violation that usually determines a ticket or how much ink I will use. What I meant by "warranted" is the example someone posted earlier of measuring tread depth. I just do not like piling on.

I've said something similar before. When I was in a position where I wrote tickets, I would give a warning when I felt the driver understood why the behavior I pulled them over for was not good behavior and they gave some indication they would do what they could to not repeat the behavior. But in other cases, like when a guy who ran a stop sign tried to excuse his behavior by saying "if I had come to a full stop, I would have had to wait for all of the traffic before I could go" certainly needed more than a warning.

I mentioned the tire tread thing. Someone else implied that the inspection sticker violation added to a ticket already being written was looking for stuff to pile on. I explained the inspection sticker was something observed when the officer was where he would normally be and wasn't looking for something. I offered measuring the tread as an example of what would likely be looking for something. I've never given a tire tread ticket. I don't even know what the law on that says. But I know it exists. During busy times of the year, we might have state troopers ride along with us. One that was riding with me point out a vehicle with bad tires and rattled off the tire tread law.

That should be a given. But it seems that participants in this discussion feel that behavior is rare.

So is critical thinking and the ability to truly look at one's actions to see if they were the reason for "bad encounters".....

Agreed

I've seen some of your comrades do that in this thread.

Indeed

 

[RussnAttitude]

Serious question here... Do cops really expect people to have good attitudes when you are stopping them from going about their day for something minor more often than not, so you can cause them to give away money they probably don't have. All ******** aside, some people are better at acting than others. There is never a good attitude when there are flashing lights behind us. Hell, just seeing a cop pull up behind us is Nerve wrecking. We know right off the bat, you're running plates, likely looking for whatever. We know you're taking your time, and going through everything you can find on the computer when you spend 15-20 minutes sitting in your car, etc....

Then God forbid we have a gun in the car. You want to take it to run serial numbers, etc... Ok cool. No problem. When I laugh is when I hear the whole, "For your protection and Mine".... So I'm supposed to trust you just because you have a badge and a radio? Why do you get to be the only one in this interaction with a weapon to protect yourself? You put yourself into this engagement, not me.

In all fairness though, I have informed an officer that there was a firearm in the car, he'd glance over and see where it's at, then say, ok fine. Just keep your hands where I can easily see them. Which is cool. I have no issue with that. I had one officer laugh, and say, ok cool. So do I. Lol

 

[Sainte70]

Serious question here... Do cops really expect people to have good attitudes when you are stopping them from going about their day for something minor more often than not, so you can cause them to give away money they probably don't have. All ******** aside, some people are better at acting than others. There is never a good attitude when there are flashing lights behind us. Hell, just seeing a cop pull up behind us is Nerve wrecking. We know right off the bat, you're running plates, likely looking for whatever. We know you're taking your time, and going through everything you can find on the computer when you spend 15-20 minutes sitting in your car, etc....

Then God forbid we have a gun in the car. You want to take it to run serial numbers, etc... Ok cool. No problem. When I laugh is when I hear the whole, "For your protection and Mine".... So I'm supposed to trust you just because you have a badge and a radio? Why do you get to be the only one in this interaction with a weapon to protect yourself? You put yourself into this engagement, not me.

In all fairness though, I have informed an officer that there was a firearm in the car, he'd glance over and see where it's at, then say, ok fine. Just keep your hands where I can easily see them. Which is cool. I have no issue with that. I had one officer laugh, and say, ok cool. So do I. Lol

So I guess the guy I arrested for a 2nd Degree Murder warrant the other day based off a "minor" violation is dumb in your opinion....

And, when asked if there are any weapons in the vehicle, I have had people actually grab the gun and point it at me so yes, is IS "For your protection and Mine"

You seem to know a lot about a profession you A) despise and B) really know nothing about.

 

[thperez1972]

Serious question here... Do cops really expect people to have good attitudes when you are stopping them from going about their day for something minor more often than not, so you can cause them to give away money they probably don't have.

To the person commuting the violation, everything is minor.

All ******** aside, some people are better at acting than others. There is never a good attitude when there are flashing lights behind us. Hell, just seeing a cop pull up behind us is Nerve wrecking. We know right off the bat, you're running plates, likely looking for whatever. We know you're taking your time, and going through everything you can find on the computer when you spend 15-20 minutes sitting in your car, etc....

This is a common misconception. Just imagine the number of cars a cop drives behind on a daily basis. They just do not have the time to run every plate looking for whatever. You actually have it backwards. In general, cops don't run your plate looking for something. They usually run your plate because they have already seen something. And if a unit is on a traffic stop for 15-20 minutes, they're going to have the dispatcher calling for them to encourage them to hurry up because there are other calls holding.

There are a few "states" an office will be in if he's driving around.
-He could be on the way to a "hot" call. He's not looking at your car to run the plate. He's looking at your car hoping you will move out of the way. As a note, lights and sirens are not appropriate for all calls.
-He could be on his way to a report call. He's not running your plate unless there is a need to. If a cop frequently puts himself on a traffic stop when he's given a report call, it starts to look like that officer is ducking reports. That perception will get mentioned and that officer will get called out.
-He could be on the way to find a quiet, clean, isolated bathroom so he can get a few minutes of peace. Or he might be heading somewhere to grab a bite to eat. He's likely not running your plate at random.
-He could be clear. Maybe he would run a random plate. But it's much more likely he would see something that lead to running the plate. There just very little upside for the cop in running random plates without a reason to run them.

Then God forbid we have a gun in the car. You want to take it to run serial numbers, etc... Ok cool. No problem. When I laugh is when I hear the whole, "For your protection and Mine".... So I'm supposed to trust you just because you have a badge and a radio? Why do you get to be the only one in this interaction with a weapon to protect yourself? You put yourself into this engagement, not me.

But it was your driving behavior that facilitated the engagement.

In all fairness though, I have informed an officer that there was a firearm in the car, he'd glance over and see where it's at, then say, ok fine. Just keep your hands where I can easily see them. Which is cool. I have no issue with that. I had one officer laugh, and say, ok cool. So do I. Lol

Those are similar to the normal reaction. They may ask you to step out of the vehicle and stand on the sidewalk so it's not right next to you.

 

[RussnAttitude]

So I guess the guy I arrested for a 2nd Degree Murder warrant the other day based off a "minor" violation is dumb in your opinion....

And, when asked if there are any weapons in the vehicle, I have had people actually grab the gun and point it at me so yes, is IS "For your protection and Mine"

You seem to know a lot about a profession you A) despise and B) really know nothing about.

Let me just give you something to think about... For your protection and mine. Why should I trust YOU with MY gun, when you can't trust me with me gun? Because you have a badge? Do you watch the news? By saying for Your protection, you are conveying that in your mind, you are a legit bad ass, and no matter what, you'd win in a combative situation, when in reality you, just like myself ( by myself I imply the general public) have no idea who you are encountering or what that individual is capable of. I don't doubt that as an officer, you encounter many people every day of your life. How can you be so sure about that person you're encountering? I'd be willing to bet at least a few of those people you meet everyday, in a bad situation, could easily overtake you and probably not even sweat. Remember, it don't matter how bad you think you are, there's always someone better.

I guess, what I'm saying is, it's not WHAT you are saying to someone, it's HOW you say it.

From what I'm seeing, you are simply not open to opinions from others, and obviously have a tunnel vision of sorts. I'm guessing you've been a cop for a long time and have the, "I'm a bad ass and your opinion doesn't matter" demeanor." Guessing you're either Kenner, NOPD, or Harahan... But it doesn't matter.

As far as the guy you arrested for second degreeurder. Good on you. Thanks for getting trash off the streets, as I'm sure that on some level, you had prior knowledge in that situation of what you might have been encountering and likely prepared yourself for it. So that sir, is a bad example

Well look guy, this is just simply wasting time at this point. I'll leave it at this.. anything I say on here, I'd be happy say in front of whoever at any time. Now, while you are gonna believe what you want anyway, at least let it be said. I do NOT "hate" LEO. As a matter of fact, my only friend is a d*amn cop. Whether it be you, or anyone else, if I see an officer in distress, I would likely react and be more than Willing to offer any assistance possible that I may be capable of. I am not a felon of any sort. However, with the way the world is, and having interacted with many officers in many different tempos over the years, I see you as a person just like anyone else. There's good ones, and there's bad ones. Do I know you? No. Do I trust you? Absolutely not. Will I give you the respect your BADGE deserves? Yes. Absolutely. But the second that "I'm a cop and what I say goes" attitude shows up, my respect for you as a cop and person go out the door.

 

[Tonyaav]

When I was a young man I thought the 5.0 was there to keep me down. I am fortunate enough to reach the age of 50 and my perspective has changed. In short I would kick my own younger self's ass...... repeatedly. Like with most of my fundamental beliefs I would like to think I have evolved.
There are so many povs in this thread would take to long to address them all, all equally considered however.
I don't like paying ticket but I don't like paying so much in taxes either.

In life, I try to plan for worst case scenario, where I now live, what I drive, what guns and ammo I have, just about everything.

I am positive that if it were my job to walk up on a auto mid-day or middle of the night, I would be ready for worst case and anything better than that is a great day. - so I guess this would make me a bad cop?

There are POS in every line of work. However, as a citizen we expect the benefit of the doubt and that breaking the law is a mistake....fair if indeed it is a mistake.

So I try to give any encounter with a LEO the same fair shake. If the LEO is not a good human , my being uncooperative is not going to help me in that moment at all.

As most things in this world it's not a black and white situation....it's all grey. I know I know but our rights are not grey, I get it. But anytime you put a actual human in the mix....it's all grey.

 

[GunRelated]

When I was a young man I thought the 5.0 was there to keep me down. I am fortunate enough to reach the age of 50 and my perspective has changed. In short I would kick my own younger self's ass...... repeatedly. Like with most of my fundamental beliefs I would like to think I have evolved.
There are so many povs in this thread would take to long to address them all, all equally considered however.
I don't like paying ticket but I don't like paying so much in taxes either.

In life, I try to plan for worst case scenario, where I now live, what I drive, what guns and ammo I have, just about everything.

I am positive that if it where my job to walk up on a auto mid-day or middle of the night, I would be ready for worst case and anything better than that is a great day. - so I guess this would make me a bad cop?

There are POS in every line of work. However, as a citizen we expect the benefit of the doubt and that breaking the law is a mistake....fair if indeed it is a mistake.

So I try to give any encounter with a LEO the same fair shake. If the LEO is not a good human , my being uncooperative is not going to help me in that moment at all.

As most things in this world it's not a black and white situation....it's all grey. I know I know but our rights are not grey, I get it. But anytime you put a actual human in the mix....it's all grey.

One of, if not the most valuable pieces of knowledge I have gained over the years is managing the ego. The ego is a very powerful thing and once you harness that power and learn to control it, you're much better off.
When I find myself in a predicament, I don't automatically blame something or someone else. Instead, I ask myself, how did I get here and how can I prevent it in the future? You'd be amazed at how much this will change your perspective and general outcome in life.
That being said, there are some things that might happen to you that are totally out of your control and cannot be prevented in general. These situations require finesse and likely an attorney. The ego will likely not serve you well here either.

As long as the core of the "justice" system revolves around money and control, instead of the benefit and service of the individual or tax payer, this topic will forever exist and will likely continue to worsen. It's the nature of the beast. Law enforcement is the tool used by the power structure to enact their agenda. Even if they believe they are doing the right thing, and I'm sure that most do put forthe effort into doing so, you still serve corrupt politicians that use you against the population in a multitude of different ways. This doesn't automatically make an officer a bad person but it does mean that the general public may not trust you because more and more people are starting to awaken to the fact that the system in general, at its core, does not hold their best interests at heart. The last 5 years or so has really opened the eyes of many to what this system is capable of and what it thinks of the average person.

For your safety. These 3 words will be burned into a lot of people's mind for many years to come and it opens up the question of, "well, what else is for my safety"

 

[thperez1972]

Let me just give you something to think about... For your protection and mine. Why should I trust YOU with MY gun, when you can't trust me with me gun? Because you have a badge? Do you watch the news? By saying for Your protection, you are conveying that in your mind, you are a legit bad ass, and no matter what, you'd win in a combative situation, when in reality you, just like myself ( by myself I imply the general public) have no idea who you are encountering or what that individual is capable of. I don't doubt that as an officer, you encounter many people every day of your life. How can you be so sure about that person you're encountering? I'd be willing to bet at least a few of those people you meet everyday, in a bad situation, could easily overtake you and probably not even sweat. Remember, it don't matter how bad you think you are, there's always someone better.

I guess, what I'm saying is, it's not WHAT you are saying to someone, it's HOW you say it.

From what I'm seeing, you are simply not open to opinions from others, and obviously have a tunnel vision of sorts.

I'm guessing you've been a cop for a long time and have the, "I'm a bad ass and your opinion doesn't matter" demeanor." Guessing you're either Kenner, NOPD, or Harahan... But it doesn't matter.

As far as the guy you arrested for second degreeurder. Good on you. Thanks for getting trash off the streets, as I'm sure that on some level, you had prior knowledge in that situation of what you might have been encountering and likely prepared yourself for it. So that sir, is a bad example

Classic. The topic was it's pretty much pointless to stop people for minor violations other than as a money grab. Someone posting an example with information that contradicted the topic. You added more information to the example that was not originally included, information about which you would have no knowledge. You then dismissed the example as bad because of the information not originally included.

"From what I'm seeing, you are simply not open to opinions from others, and obviously have a tunnel vision of sorts." In other words, instead of adjusting your opinion based on the information provided, you adjusted the information based on your opinion.

Well look guy, this is just simply wasting time at this point. I'll leave it at this.. anything I say on here, I'd be happy say in front of whoever at any time. Now, while you are gonna believe what you want anyway, at least let it be said. I do NOT "hate" LEO. As a matter of fact, my only friend is a d*amn cop. Whether it be you, or anyone else, if I see an officer in distress, I would likely react and be more than Willing to offer any assistance possible that I may be capable of. I am not a felon of any sort. However, with the way the world is, and having interacted with many officers in many different tempos over the years, I see you as a person just like anyone else. There's good ones, and there's bad ones. Do I know you? No. Do I trust you? Absolutely not. Will I give you the respect your BADGE deserves? Yes. Absolutely. But the second that "I'm a cop and what I say goes" attitude shows up, my respect for you as a cop and person go out the door.