Post From Vermillion Parish S. O.

[GunRelated]

I'm seeing myself and GunRelated share alot of views. He's just way more of a people person or articulate about it. Lol...

Life has taught me a lot. I would have to say that an individual's views on different topics is molded from their life experiences. I have enough experience dealing with law enforcement in situations in my past that I may not be proud of, but those experiences have shaped me into the person I am and also have given me a glimpse into the shady aspects of how they operate at times. Knowing what I know, I am aware of how the justice system will go out of it's way to protect itself by any means necessary, even if that means using tactics that may violate our rights in order to obtain the desired outcome. Without these experiences, one might feel inclined to believe that it's ok, because the end justifies the means.
At the end of the day, we are all human being, none of us perfect, and any time one human being is given authority over another human being, this breeds an atmosphere that allows abuse of power. This is true, all the way from the top of power, down to the lowest level of street patrol.

 

[Sainte70]

Life has taught me a lot. I would have to say that an individual's views on different topics is molded from their life experiences. I have enough experience dealing with law enforcement in situations in my past that I may not be proud of, but those experiences have shaped me into the person I am and also have given me a glimpse into the shady aspects of how they operate at times. Knowing what I know, I am aware of how the justice system will go out of it's way to protect itself by any means necessary, even if that means using tactics that may violate our rights in order to obtain the desired outcome. Without these experiences, one might feel inclined to believe that it's ok, because the end justifies the means.
At the end of the day, we are all human being, none of us perfect, and any time one human being is given authority over another human being, this breeds an atmosphere that allows abuse of power. This is true, all the way from the top of power, down to the lowest level of street patrol.

Decades of military service taught me how to not abuse my power. The ends must always justify the means in a legal and ethical manner. It is not ok to share, obscure or twist the truth to fit a narrative.

I will never charge someone with a crime if I do not have the proof to support that charge. I would not want it done to me or my family, I will not do it ton someone else’s family.

I have to look in the mirror everyday.

 

[thperez1972]

Post #64

"The fact of the matter is this, this country was founded on a set of principles that did not include use the government against the people and especially not using the government by means of hiding in order to catch non violent offenders."

I also stated that it creates a poor relationship and diminishes trust between the police and the citizens they are supposed toprotect and serve.

The post didn't cover why. It just stated you interpret using that unmarked cars as an example of using the government against the people. And there's no reason using unmarked cars should diminish trust. If fact, it should increase the trust of the ordinary good citizen. It shows the police are there to find the people who only do right when they know the police are around and keep the good people safer.

 

[thperez1972]

I will never charge someone with a crime if I do not have the proof to support that charge. I would not want it done to me or my family, I will not do it ton someone else’s family.

Can you point out who has suggested charging someone without proof to support the charge?

 

[Sainte70]

Can you point out who has suggested charging someone without proof to support the charge?

No one stated that specifically, I was just stating it before it was brought up. The “hypocrisy” subject had already been breached so, unethical charging usually goes hand in hand with that topic. I hear it all the time…almost daily since obama began his war on police.

As for the war on drugs being a scam on the American people, I agree completely. We could win that war if we wanted to but, the politicians and liberals do not have the stomach for it.

 

[GunRelated]

The post didn't cover why. It just stated you interpret using that unmarked cars as an example of using the government against the people. And there's no reason using unmarked cars should diminish trust. If fact, it should increase the trust of the ordinary good citizen. It shows the police are there to find the people who only do right when they know the police are around and keep the good people safer.

Everyday, our data is stolen, sold to the highest bidder and often used by law enforcement to make cases.
Same thing.
If you have nothing to hide, why worry?

 

[GunRelated]

No one stated that specifically, I was just stating it before it was brought up. The “hypocrisy” subject had already been breached so, unethical charging usually goes hand in hand with that topic. I hear it all the time…almost daily since obama began his war on police.

As for the war on drugs being a scam on the American people, I agree completely. We could win that war if we wanted to but, the politicians and liberals do not have the stomach for it.

It's not that they don't have the stomach for it, they ARE the perpetrators. It is not a war on drugs, it is a war on the people.

 

[RussnAttitude]

Life has taught me a lot. I would have to say that an individual's views on different topics is molded from their life experiences. I have enough experience dealing with law enforcement in situations in my past that I may not be proud of, but those experiences have shaped me into the person I am and also have given me a glimpse into the shady aspects of how they operate at times. Knowing what I know, I am aware of how the justice system will go out of it's way to protect itself by any means necessary, even if that means using tactics that may violate our rights in order to obtain the desired outcome. Without these experiences, one might feel inclined to believe that it's ok, because the end justifies the means.
At the end of the day, we are all human being, none of us perfect, and any time one human being is given authority over another human being, this breeds an atmosphere that allows abuse of power. This is true, all the way from the top of power, down to the lowest level of street patrol.

Agreed. I've had some run ins myself I'm not proud of. Taught me exactly how dirty and corrupt certain agencies can be. I had to fight in court on one instance (about 7/8 years ago) where I was able to prove with documentation and witness accounts, a officer lied both verbally In court and on his AAR.... Last I heard he was supposedly "severely reprimanded" for his actions... My time working with even just lower level Intel in the Navy taught me nothing more, than to not trust the system.... Ive told many people from personal experience, whether it be He Law Enforcement or military, "Just because it's in the AAR, doesn't mean it's true". I have next to no trust in "the system" due to past experiences.

 

[GunRelated]

Everyday, our data is stolen, sold to the highest bidder and often used by law enforcement to make cases.
Same thing.
If you have nothing to hide, why worry?

I already know this will be countered as it was a poor comparison. Although similar, not the same.

It's easy to say "no expectation of privacy on public roads".

So, I will say this.

If the true intention is to make the roads safer, why would you use an unmarked or hidden vehicle simply to catch violations and profit from them? Would it not be more effective to use a marked vehicle to let your presence be known, and prevent it in the first place?
The question of why people would no violate in the presence of a marked vehicle vs unmarked is neither here nor there. If the true purpose is to make the roads safer, and not to profit from violations, a marked vehicle is the obvious winner.

This is why it sowes distrust.

 

[thperez1972]

Everyday, our data is stolen, sold to the highest bidder and often used by law enforcement to make cases.
Same thing.
If you have nothing to hide, why worry?

Stolen data is used by law enforcement. Another unsubstantiated claim.

 

[thperez1972]

No one stated that specifically, I was just stating it before it was brought up. The “hypocrisy” subject had already been breached so, unethical charging usually goes hand in hand with that topic. I hear it all the time…almost daily since obama began his war on police.

As for the war on drugs being a scam on the American people, I agree completely. We could win that war if we wanted to but, the politicians and liberals do not have the stomach for it.

Just so we are both discussing the same thing, would you provide an explanation of unethical charging?

We could win the war on drugs by moving drug use to health and hospitals and removing it from the realm of law enforcement. That would allow for leo's to not have to address the drug issue as their only real means to address it is jail. Distribution should still be a criminal offense. And distribution charges should not be allowed to be reduced to possession charges.

 

[thperez1972]

I already know this will be countered as it was a poor comparison. Although similar, not the same.

It's easy to say "no expectation of privacy on public roads".

So, I will say this.

If the true intention is to make the roads safer, why would you use an unmarked or hidden vehicle simply to catch violations and profit from them? Would it not be more effective to use a marked vehicle to let your presence be known, and prevent it in the first place?
The question of why people would no violate in the presence of a marked vehicle vs unmarked is neither here nor there. If the true purpose is to make the roads safer, and not to profit from violations, a marked vehicle is the obvious winner.

This is why it sowes distrust.

Marked presence patrols should be used in conjunction with unmarked vehicles. There are people who will behave for only as long as they are aware the police are present. For those people, a marked unit there for deterrence does nothing when there is no marked unit there. Those are also the people making the streets less safe. For those people, the threat of a ticket may be the only deterrence. (We can discuss the cost of the fines if you'd like. I believe there should be alternatives to fines such as community service. But the cost of the fines should not be a deciding factor for is a violator should be given a ticket.)

I do not perform traffic stops. My current car is an unmarked unit with a spotlight. My previous unit was an unmarked unit without a spotlight. On an almost daily basis, I see stupid, unsafe drivers. They are driving like that because they believe there are no police around. How do I know that? The answer is simple. I observe the change in their driving after they know the police are around. I've had people fly up behind me at a high rate of speed on the interstate and ride unusually close behind me in order to intimidate me into moving over. If I turn on my back lights and let them flash once, they almost always back off and drive right. And even when it's clear for me to move to the right lane, they rarely resume their previous driving style and pass me up.

There have been plenty of occasions where I'm driving in the right lane and I see someone coming up fast in the left lane. It's somewhat entertaining to see when they notice the spotlight. When they do, they slow down and refuse to pass. The problem with that one is they typically slow down and stay in my blind spot.

Then there's the cell phone drivers who can't keep the car in one lane because they spend more time looking at the phone than they do looking at the road. A quick honk of the horn lets them know the police are close by. They almost always put the phone down, look around for a police car, then drive much less distracted.

It's those types of people for whom a marked unit does little good because they only act right when the marked unit is there. It's those people for whom a ticket is warranted.

 

[AdvancedLaser]

I have enough experience dealing with law enforcement in situations in my past

Ya think.

 

[AdvancedLaser]

Agreed. I've had some run ins myself I'm not proud of.

Ya think.

 

[AdvancedLaser]

I'm seeing myself and GunRelated share alot of views.

Yet you both fail to see the irony here.

 

[GunRelated]

Stolen data is used by law enforcement. Another unsubstantiated claim.

This is not unsubstantiated. This goes back well before the internet was even a thing, via illegal wiretaps. Now that we have the Internet, almost all forms of communication are easily intercepted by one entity or another, legally or otherwise. To say that claim in unsubstantiated is crazy talk.

 

[GunRelated]

Yet you both fail to see the irony here.

And you fail to see the irony in trying to use something like this as a jab or to make a judgement of character. My history has been talked about before on this forum, many years ago, and is still there for anyone that feels the need to search for it. I may not be proud of it but I certainly do not hide from it.
Like I said, none of us are perfect, we've all made mistakes, it's what you do with those mistakes moving forward that really matters. You may feel you have a moral highground over me, or that you may hurt my feelings by taking a jab like that. I can assure you that you do not.

 

[AdvancedLaser]

And you fail to see the irony in trying to use something like this as a jab or to make a judgement of character. My history has been talked about before on this forum, many years ago, and is still there for anyone that feels the need to search for it. I may not be proud of it but I certainly do not hide from it.
Like I said, none of us are perfect, we've all made mistakes, it's what you do with those mistakes moving forward that really matters. You may feel you have a moral highground over me, or that you may hurt my feelings by taking a jab like that. I can assure you that you do not.

Didn't mean it offensively at all. I'm not at all judging you or where you have been.
It's just that it is the people who have done the most crime, and had a significant amount of L.E. contacts, that hate them the most. And it's NEVER their own fault for their lifestyle choices, it's ALWAYS the cops who did them wrong.
Weird how that works, huh.

 

[RussnAttitude]

Deleted: don't wanna stray away from thread after thinking about it.

 

[GunRelated]

Marked presence patrols should be used in conjunction with unmarked vehicles. There are people who will behave for only as long as they are aware the police are present. For those people, a marked unit there for deterrence does nothing when there is no marked unit there. Those are also the people making the streets less safe. For those people, the threat of a ticket may be the only deterrence. (We can discuss the cost of the fines if you'd like. I believe there should be alternatives to fines such as community service. But the cost of the fines should not be a deciding factor for is a violator should be given a ticket.)

I do not perform traffic stops. My current car is an unmarked unit with a spotlight. My previous unit was an unmarked unit without a spotlight. On an almost daily basis, I see stupid, unsafe drivers. They are driving like that because they believe there are no police around. How do I know that? The answer is simple. I observe the change in their driving after they know the police are around. I've had people fly up behind me at a high rate of speed on the interstate and ride unusually close behind me in order to intimidate me into moving over. If I turn on my back lights and let them flash once, they almost always back off and drive right. And even when it's clear for me to move to the right lane, they rarely resume their previous driving style and pass me up.

There have been plenty of occasions where I'm driving in the right lane and I see someone coming up fast in the left lane. It's somewhat entertaining to see when they notice the spotlight. When they do, they slow down and refuse to pass. The problem with that one is they typically slow down and stay in my blind spot.

Then there's the cell phone drivers who can't keep the car in one lane because they spend more time looking at the phone than they do looking at the road. A quick honk of the horn lets them know the police are close by. They almost always put the phone down, look around for a police car, then drive much less distracted.

It's those types of people for whom a marked unit does little good because they only act right when the marked unit is there. It's those people for whom a ticket is warranted.

If there were no fines involved, profiteering from the citizens, I could probably agree with this. Community service in place of fines would show that this isn't about revenue. This won't happen because I feel confident that it is about revenue, it always is. Maybe not to the officers writing citations, I'm sure most feel like they are doing the right thing. It's the system as a whole. Which, more and more as times goes by, seems to be more about benefiting itself rather than the citizens or the tax payer.