UPDATE: Cannizarro Refuses to Charge; A friend was involved in a shooting

[Hermit]

GZ: The Sequel

I'm sure the Justice Brothers are packing their bags.
New Orleans is gonna be much more fun than Sanford.

 

[Xenon]

Updated article http://www.nola.com/crime/index.ssf/2013/07/marigny_homeowner_shooting.html#incart_m-rpt-2

But police said the teen was unarmed and did not pose an "imminent threat" when he was shot and have charged the owner with attempted second-degree murder.

According to an NOPD arrest warrant, Landry shot Coulter from 30 feet away, evidenced by the distance between the blood found on the ground and the single bullet casing outside Landry's house in the 700 block of Mandeville Street.

Landry told police that he approached the boy from his front yard, near his vehicle. As he grew closer, he said, the boy made a "move, as if to reach for something" -- possibly a weapon -- so Landry shot him, the warrant states.

NOPD Detective Nicholas Williams spoke with an unidentified witness who gave an account that differed from Landry's, though the detective did not specify how. Williams wrote in the warrant that Coulter was not trying to enter Landry's house and did not pose an "imminent threat" to Landry.

"He would steal -- he was a professional thief, sure," David Coulter said. "But he would never pick up a gun, not in a million years. He was too scared to aim a gun at the grass, let alone aim it at a person. No way. Before he'll ever pick up a gun, he'll be your friend first.

"He's still a little boy," the brother said. "Who pulls a trigger on a 14-year-old? What if it was your little brother or your sister? How would you feel?"

It sounds like he came out the front door and found him by the house/car

 

[MOTOR51]

If fear of death or great bodily harm was automatically conveyed from someone forcing their way into your home, the additional section wouldn't be required as it would already be covered. If I wake up to the sound of someone in my house, I can legally shoot them, regardless of if I am fearing anything. If the burglar is a naked midget in a wheel chair, I'm still legally G2G.

Ok, understand this from someone who does this for a living. IF YOU SHOOT SOMEONE AND YOU ARE NOT IN FEAR THEN YOU WILL BE ARRESTED. Tell the responding officers and detectives that you shot the guy just cause he was in your house and you were not scared.


MOTOR51

 

[JWG223]

Looking at this, a predominately white, pro gun, pro stand your ground, anti theif, etc.etc. board, and the young black kid likely trying to steal things has numerous people saying he was wronged. If this forum is feeling that way, I think its a good bet that others do and will. Goose cooked, imo. This is likely the most sympathetic opinion forum the shooter could be discussed on, and it seems very cool to his plight.

 

[Xenon]

But people around here follow/interpret the law and try to pay attention to its details too. Anyone could come out and say that they think the guy did the "right thing" morally, but it may not the be way the law reads.

..and sometimes juries use law and sometimes they go with their gut. Sometimes more facts come out and the case never even makes it to, or past the grand jury. But I don't think the comments here are indicative of how it will necessarily play out until all the details are put forth. Hell, we've had two updates to the story since the thread was posted.

 

[JWG223]

But people around here follow/interpret the law and try to pay attention to its details too. Anyone could come out and say that they think the guy did the "right thing" morally, but it may not the be way the law reads.

..and sometimes juries use law and sometimes they go with their gut. Sometimes more facts come out and the case never even makes it to, or past the grand jury. But I don't think the comments here are indicative of how it will necessarily play out until all the details are put forth. Hell, we've had two updates to the story since the thread was posted.

no, I fully agree with you. We werent there. I'm just saying it doesn't look good right now from what we do know.

 

[03protege]

"He would steal -- he was a professional thief, sure," David Coulter said. "But he would never pick up a gun, not in a million years. He was too scared to aim a gun at the grass, let alone aim it at a person. No way. Before he'll ever pick up a gun, he'll be your friend first.

"I want to see a prosecution, not somebody who gets out after a couple of years," he said. "I want to see the system do its job for once."

I wonder how many times David called the cops on his little bro seeking out justice from the system?

 

[Xenon]

I'll agree.

I'm the same age as the shooter, living in the same city, fence on the side of my house like that, dog in the fence, car broken into/bike stolen in the past year, wife and three children (one a baby) in the house. I can't tell you exactly what the outcome would have been if it were me, but the shooter is claiming the vic was reaching for what he perceived to be a weapon.

I empathize with the guy and truly hope he's being honest. And if he is, that justice is served upon the charges being dropped. I do not think they will be able to prove and convict on 2nd degree murder if the child dies. And if he doesn't... then he didn't use lethal force.

 

[mcinfantry]

as a former cop, and parent, and former KID, dont put me on your jury for killing midgets or burglars. especially with your internet posts.

 

[Xenon]

I wonder how many times David called the cops on his little bro seeking out justice from the system?

Prosecution: like putting his thieving ass little brother in juvy

 

[SpeedRacer]

I think the biggest problem with the law is it's based on fear. Fear is a subjective and personal thing. What might not scare you might scare someone else. For all we know the kid turned around to wave, say hello and bake the homeowner some cookies. So they use the magical legal catch-all "reasonable", also a highly subjective term to make a determination.

If you hear a noise, go outside and find someone inside your secured property up to know good, I'd imagine for some people any movement they made could cause them fear. Is that reasonable though? Ask 100 different people and you'll get 100 different answers. Some people feat nothing, some people are afraid of their own shadows. I guess the DA is the one who defines "reasonable" and the decision can be easily motivated by unrelated factors. I just think the whole system is screwy.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk 2

 

[Xenon]

as a former cop, and parent, and former KID, dont put me on your jury for killing midgets or burglars. especially with your internet posts.

I'll assume this was directed at me.

If he was in fear of his life by the vic pulling a weapon on him, wouldn't that make it justifiable? Would it be any difference if you were on duty and you truly believed he was reaching for a gun?

I didn't say what I would do, but it would be a scary situation to be in. Maybe it just hit close to home.

 

[mcinfantry]

I think the biggest problem with the law is it's based on fear. Fear is a subjective and personal thing. What might not scare you might scare someone else. For all we know the kid turned around to wave, say hello and bake the homeowner some cookies. So they use the magical legal catch-all "reasonable", also a highly subjective term to make a determination.

If you hear a noise, go outside and find someone inside your secured property up to know good, I'd imagine for some people any movement they made could cause them fear. Is that reasonable though? Ask 100 different people and you'll get 100 different answers. Some people feat nothing, some people are afraid of their own shadows. I guess the DA is the one who defines "reasonable" and the decision can be easily motivated by unrelated factors. I just think the whole system is screwy.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk 2

I think you will notice a pattern.

The people who make initial arrests (cops) based on probable cause have case law, revised statutes, and DA assistance in what/how to apply the law.

Then the DA, and DA investigators follow the same laws, case law and precedents, as well as the judges.

You have REAL criminal defense lawyers.

Then you have the internet lawyers, i-toughmen interpreting it how they see fit

and last the general public.

unfortunately for everyone the DA, and COPS make the decision to arrest, real lawyers defend you.

Has ANY current or former POLICE OFFICERS OR DA, or DA investigator, or Criminal Defense Lawyer said "good shoot" and "you can shoot burglars"? Thats pretty telling in my opinion. As telling as it needs to be, really.

I dont tell yall how to run an offshore drilling rig, website, auto repair, or cabinet shop. No matter my personal OPINION. and even If i did, none of my shoddy advice will put you in prison on your jobs.

 

[JWG223]

Shooter says one thing. Witness said another. We weren't there. This looks bad.

 

[mcinfantry]

I'll assume this was directed at me.

If he was in fear of his life by the vic pulling a weapon on him, wouldn't that make it justifiable? Would it be any difference if you were on duty and you truly believed he was reaching for a gun?

I didn't say what I would do, but it would be a scary situation to be in. Maybe it just hit close to home.

it was NOT directed at you.

BUT, i will answer.

A cop has the law, and legal backing to facilitate an ARREST. and he has the LAW which allows the use of FORCE to make an arrest even GREATER force to overcome a suspect resisting an arrest.

A cop in baton rouge did indeed shoot a suspect who was reaching for vice grips. and it was a lesson taught in the training academy.

 

[Xenon]

it was NOT directed at you.

Thanks for clarifying

 

[Cat]

Ok, understand this from someone who does this for a living. IF YOU SHOOT SOMEONE AND YOU ARE NOT IN FEAR THEN YOU WILL BE ARRESTED. Tell the responding officers and detectives that you shot the guy just cause he was in your house and you were not scared.


MOTOR51

I agree.

But I think you and Jack are debating two different groups of people. Jack is arguing court law. You're telling him the reality is that he would be spending a very uncomfortable few nights behind bars. Jack might be sort of right. Who knows. People have walked for much worse crimes than shooting a burglarizing midget. I think his opinion is a little faulty. So is mine sometimes.

Being arrested after using his logic... I think that's true. It's your job to consider the extremely strong possibility of a crime. Once the DA decides to proceed, or not, it's out of your hands. But initially at that moment, it is the officer's decision to arrest regardless. G2G legally unfortunately isn't necessarily a stay out of jail card.


Bottom line: as Speedracer mentioned. It's a life altering, life threatening, mentally exhausting event. Good, bad, justified, excused... Your life is shot to hell.

 

[Cat]

I think the biggest problem with the law is it's based on fear. Fear is a subjective and personal thing. What might not scare you might scare someone else. For all we know the kid turned around to wave, say hello and bake the homeowner some cookies. So they use the magical legal catch-all "reasonable", also a highly subjective term to make a determination.

If you hear a noise, go outside and find someone inside your secured property up to know good, I'd imagine for some people any movement they made could cause them fear. Is that reasonable though? Ask 100 different people and you'll get 100 different answers. Some people feat nothing, some people are afraid of their own shadows. I guess the DA is the one who defines "reasonable" and the decision can be easily motivated by unrelated factors. I just think the whole system is screwy.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk 2

Indeed screwy

 

[Neil09]

it was NOT directed at you.

BUT, i will answer.

A cop has the law, and legal backing to facilitate an ARREST. and he has the LAW which allows the use of FORCE to make an arrest even GREATER force to overcome a suspect resisting an arrest.

A cop in baton rouge did indeed shoot a suspect who was reaching for vice grips. and it was a lesson taught in the training academy.

Do you think, if he really did feel the BG was reaching for a weapon, he should have waited to find out if the BG would shoot first? Notice earlier I mentioned this my biggest worry, which is why I want your opinion.

 

[mcinfantry]

Do you think, if he really did feel the BG was reaching for a weapon, he should have waited to find out if the BG would shoot first? Notice earlier I mentioned this my biggest worry, which is why I want your opinion.

a kid 30 feet away, in the dark? i think you could have made sure he was armed. SOMETHING in his hand.... totality of the circumstances. he was the victim of THEFTS earlier in the week, no one broke in his home. he was mad at the THIEFS.

maybe had they broke in the home a week earlier he could argue they might be coming back

heck, all i can tell you is the "i feared for my life" "my guns are lost in a boating accident" are cute. not so cute when it gets down to nut cutting