Gator 45/70
Well-Known Member
You see where nice cops end up at, Shot all to hell on the side of a road,
https://www.liveleak.com/view?t=st1Qd_1618275023
https://www.liveleak.com/view?t=st1Qd_1618275023
Will They ever learn?
- Thread starter Old School
- Start date
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I think maybe there are a couple of recurring problems that don’t seem to ever be considered, but we really don’t have all the info on this stop.He was asked, then told, to exit his vehicle what seemed like 20 times and never did. He should have known better. No idea why he would have thought things weren't going to go south for him in a hurry, but....
Now, he's claiming his civil rights were violated and is trying to sue. I disagree- he is responsible for needlessly escalating a routine stop. He could have put the officers at ease from the start if he'd have cooperated in a reasonable manner, but he went down another path.
I hope the officer gets his job back. They jumped the gun with his firing, in my opinion.
The guy didn’t stop immediately. He did (reportedly) drive to a safe place and pull in to stop, which is a reasonable thing to do at night, or so one would believe.
The guy did nothing illegal. Reportedly, the stop was initiated over lack of a license plate but there was apparently a temporary tag in the back window that’s assumed to have been visible.
Felony stop? Of course there doesn’t seem to be any video from before things are escalated to guns drawn but why? Why a felony stop for a missing plate? Reportedly the cop making the stop called for backup because the Lt would not exit the vehicle. How much time elapsed before cop 2 arrived and ramped things up? Two cops with guns drawn could very well make a person go rigid. It appears to have happened here. The Lt remained calm despite cop 2 losing his cool.
Without question. That seems to be the theme regardless of the situation. No delay, no questions, no explaining. I’ve seen cops give orders then tase or drag a man seated in his car having a medical emergency to the asphalt because he was physically unable to comply. I’ve seen cops physically assault an older blind man walking with a cane because he attempted to explain. They’ve shot people in their own home through windows (twice) and through the door when there was no crime being committed, on video for all to see. In these situations the common thread seems to be a cop who goes from zero to kill in a split second when it is completely unwarranted. Many may come to the defense of such a cop, but won’t say how they feel about contact with same.
I believe the situation in question was handled inappropriately. The actions of cop 2 were complete overkill. I also believe cop 1 felt the same at the time, but eventually joined in because that’s what they do more times than not. I also believe the Lt will win his case and bleed the taxpayers of a few more dollars and cop 2 likely is already at his new job and not missing a paycheck.
Cops are supposedly trained to deal with the public. The public is not trained to deal with cops. Cops know this. It apparently frustrates some and they react terribly at times. Cop 2 said as much.
SVT Bansheeman
No more laughing dog
She should of been arrested on the spot just like we would of. That's my only issues with the situation.
Just wondering what you guys think someone should do in this situation? Pulled over for a missing license plate and when he finds a well lit area to stop they pull guns on him and give him conflicting orders. How are you supposed to keep your hands out of the window while unbuckling your seat belt and unlocking and opening your door? Would it be resisting arrest if he complied with their orders to get out and they shot him full of holes because he was "reaching for a weapon"?
Oh I guess that sums up the answer to my question
So you think he should have put his hands inside the vehicle to open his door or unbuckle his seatbelt when being yelled at to keep his hands out the window? Why do you hope the officer gets his job back? You think it's good to have people in authority who say things like "you're fixing to ride the lightning" and "you should be" [afraid] because his car was new and didn't have a license plate?
He was asked, then told, to exit his vehicle what seemed like 20 times and never did. He should have known better. No idea why he would have thought things weren't going to go south for him in a hurry, but....
Now, he's claiming his civil rights were violated and is trying to sue. I disagree- he is responsible for needlessly escalating a routine stop. He could have put the officers at ease from the start if he'd have cooperated in a reasonable manner, but he went down another path.
I hope the officer gets his job back. They jumped the gun with his firing, in my opinion.
Oh I guess that sums up the answer to my question
So you think he should have put his hands inside the vehicle to open his door or unbuckle his seatbelt when being yelled at to keep his hands out the window? Why do you hope the officer gets his job back? You think it's good to have people in authority who say things like "you're fixing to ride the lightning" and "you should be" [afraid] because his car was new and didn't have a license plate?
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The LT escalated it by assuming that these cops would afford him the same respect as his troops and patriotic Americans. The Sarge also escalated it by doubling down on his aggressive approach even after it was established that the Army officer was not acting in a threatening manner. I don’t see why the Sarge could not have calmly instructed him to hand over his license, registration and insurance before approaching the vehicle.
I think the Sarge felt that his manhood was being challenged and used the mace as a punishment for it.
By the time he knew that he had nothing on this stop, he did nothing to deescalate himself or the driver. I bet he now wishes that he would have swallowed some pride taken it easy on the LT.
I think the Sarge felt that his manhood was being challenged and used the mace as a punishment for it.
By the time he knew that he had nothing on this stop, he did nothing to deescalate himself or the driver. I bet he now wishes that he would have swallowed some pride taken it easy on the LT.
Just wondering what you guys think someone should do in this situation? Pulled over for a missing license plate and when he finds a well lit area to stop they pull guns on him and give him conflicting orders. How are you supposed to keep your hands out of the window while unbuckling your seat belt and unlocking and opening your door? Would it be resisting arrest if he complied with their orders to get out and they shot him full of holes because he was "reaching for a weapon"?
Oh I guess that sums up the answer to my question
Speaking for myself, I'd have pulled over a lot sooner, for one thing- and followed their commands. If I feel like I have a legitimate argument, I'll do it in courtroom. My main priority would be to do my part to put everyone at ease and get through this without helping create a national incident, and go home.
As for the machismo quips from the senior officer- sure, he probably could have done without those. But no one is infallible.
I'm sure the Lt will end up with a handsome settlement for being mean-mouthed and pepper sprayed. I just think there's a good chance the escalation wouldn't have gone nearly as far if he had responded sooner and been more cooperative. Just my opinion; no one has to agree.
Gator 45/70
Well-Known Member
If that would have been a white dude this would be a big nothing burger boys.....
Put the blame for all this crap squarely where it lies; the corrupt and reprehensible media, the corrupt and reprehensible democrat politicians, and the reprehensible dumbasses that refuse to comply with an officer's orders during official stops!
If a person is legally mandated to notify any law enforcement officer of their CHP upon an official stop for instance, then the least that should be expected from a regular non-CHP citizen is be polite and respectful (a sign of simple common decency), and comply with the wishes of the officer during an official stop.
These ******** arguments that blacks are constantly singled out by police are falling on deaf ears with me. Not just because the facts belie it, but because it is being purposely parlayed by corrupt media moguls, and democrats into excuses to tear this country apart. It's pretty simple; if a cop stops you in an official capacity, and you didn't do anything wrong; comply! I don't care if you are white, black, brown, or polka-dotted! On the same theme, other than a legitimate mistake or the case made for a necessary use of force, if there is a corrupt cop out there, and he or she turns his or her body camera off during an official stop that goes wrong, they should be terminated immediately, and face the consequences of their actions without the support of their departments. Two way street!
But be warned! This despicable excuse for a "free" press in this country is a God damned joke! Forget their blatant bias! Their levels of dishonesty are unprecedented! They are actively engaged in trying to destroy any chances of real social tolerance! It's working too! History will not serve those slugs well, unless they keep re-writing it.
If a person is legally mandated to notify any law enforcement officer of their CHP upon an official stop for instance, then the least that should be expected from a regular non-CHP citizen is be polite and respectful (a sign of simple common decency), and comply with the wishes of the officer during an official stop.
These ******** arguments that blacks are constantly singled out by police are falling on deaf ears with me. Not just because the facts belie it, but because it is being purposely parlayed by corrupt media moguls, and democrats into excuses to tear this country apart. It's pretty simple; if a cop stops you in an official capacity, and you didn't do anything wrong; comply! I don't care if you are white, black, brown, or polka-dotted! On the same theme, other than a legitimate mistake or the case made for a necessary use of force, if there is a corrupt cop out there, and he or she turns his or her body camera off during an official stop that goes wrong, they should be terminated immediately, and face the consequences of their actions without the support of their departments. Two way street!
But be warned! This despicable excuse for a "free" press in this country is a God damned joke! Forget their blatant bias! Their levels of dishonesty are unprecedented! They are actively engaged in trying to destroy any chances of real social tolerance! It's working too! History will not serve those slugs well, unless they keep re-writing it.
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If a cop lights you up and you’re in a dark area is it legal to drive to a well lit area?
It’s whatever the cop decides it is. BOOM! What did I win?
No it’s not. It’s best to not keep driving like you were but to slow down and turn on the flashers so the officer knows you are acknowledging him. This happens a good bit. It’s even better if you call the police and say “hey I’m being pulled over, can you please let the officer know I’m driving to a well lit area”. Now, this doesn’t mean drive to your house or pass up 20 shell gas stations because you prefer chevron. Also, if the guys license plate was behind tinted glass like most SUVs have then it might have been illegally displayed. I haven’t seen the whole video nor will I make a comment about any of the current situations.
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I was on a jury where a man was charged with about 3 charges because he didn't pull over when lit up . The incident happened on a dark country road with no shoulder and ditches on both sides.The dash cam video showed he slowed from 62 in a 55 down to 35 and drove past about 3 dark private driveways to a well lit sale barn lot and pulled in . As he stopped officers jumped from the tailing veh and a backup vehicle and very agresivly arrested him because he didn't stop immediately. All 12 juniors agreed he was not resisting arrest or fleeing or even being disrespectful . His only crime was going 7 miles over the speed limit . He had been arrested, lost his job and had a lawyer expense . Agresive jerks with badges give good cops bad names , good cops covering for and not turning in bad cops get good cops killed . Several of us on the jury said we wished we could have the cop and prosecutor jailed .
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I watched the NBC news video. Here's my take on it. You're welcome to reply with "Well what about.....?"
"how many occupants in the vehicle?"
"what's going on?"
"how many occupants in the vehicle?"
"it's only myself..."
There are a number of reasons someone delays answering a question. They might be trying to come up with a good answer, even if that answer is not accurate. They may be stalling and waiting on some opportunity. They may have decided what they want to do and are building up the courage to do it. There are other reasons as well but the existence of the above reasons forces the police to be more cautious.
"open the door slowly and get out....open the door"
"I'm not getting out of the vehicle..."
Again, stalling and/or building up courage. By stalling, he could also be waiting for the cops to move in closer.
The tint of the window makes it difficult to see what the driver or any passenger may be doing. Just because he said he was the only one in the vehicle does not mean he was the only one in the vehicle and the time it takes to drive to a lighted area could be used by any occupants to come up with a plan. It looks like a temp tag behind tinted glass. That tactic has been used to help ensure the car cannot be positively identified. Without a visible plate for the police to call in, there is nowhere to start looking if things go south. A plate would give the name and address of the registered owner. For over 2 minutes, he failed to exit the car. Once he exited the car, he still refused to comply.
It seems he violated a traffic law. He created a situation with the tint and plate where the police were unable to know how many occupants there were or get any information about the car or the owner prior to the stop. None of that is changed by the fact he drove to a well-lit gas station.
He could have complied. When the cop told him to get out of the car, he could easily have said "I need to unbuckle my seatbelt." At that point, the cops would have changed their directions and told him to slowly reach over and unbuckle his seatbelt and put his hands back outside the window.
Do you think the police should have let the LT stay in the car and dictate how the traffic stop went? I'm not saying that's how I feel I would have done things if I were there. As a veteran, I watched that video and cringed when the guy pulled the "do you know who I am" bit when he said "I'm serving this country and this is how I'm treated?" I guess that usually works for the LT because he seemed a little confused when it didn't change his situation and the cop said he was a vet too.
I agree. He was just slightly instigating trouble for YouTube. Not as much as others have but he was poking the bear a little.
The Sarge continued the heavy handed approach even after establishing that the LT was not a threat. The LT was afraid to exit his vehicle because the Sarge refused to calm down. He feared retaliation for initial noncompliance and his fears were justified when mace was used. Use of mace is considered to be simple battery in Louisiana if it is not considered to be justified.
The LT just may have exited the vehicle without the use of mace if the Sarge would have made an effort to calm himself down and engage the LT in a conversional tone. Perhaps the LT is the kind of person who does not react well to threats.
As for myself, I would have slowly exited the vehicle with my hands up and temp registration, insurance, license, and VA card in my right hand. I would have also done pushups and jumping jacks if the Sarge would instructed me to. I have that hardcore Marine mindset, so I don’t care about the tone of a LEO or if he seems threatening. I take a cold analytical approach to it. Not everyone sees it that way.
I can't agree that his fears for retaliation for initial noncompliance were justified. He wasn't maced for his initial noncompliance. He was maced for his continued noncompliance. Had he stepped out on his own, I suspect he would have likely been brought to the ground and handcuffed. But it's unfair to say the cop's reaction to his current and ongoing noncompliance is evidence of what the cop will do in retaliation for the initial noncompliance.
Just so we are on the same page, at what time in the video was it established the LT was not a threat?
The LT may not react well to threats. After all, he sure doesn't react well to authority.
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