Gunfighter
Well-Known Member
Other than the finish what are the differences?
Wingmaster vs. Express
- Thread starter Gunfighter
- Start date
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Variants
There are hundreds of variations of the Remington 870 in 12, 16, 20, 28 gauges and .410 bore. From the original fifteen models offered, Remington currently produces dozens of models for civilian, law enforcement, and military sales. 870 variants can be grouped into:
Wingmaster – Blued steel with high gloss or satin walnut stocks. They have been offered in Skeet, Trap, and field configurations. Originally the basic Wingmaster was chambered for 2 3/4" rounds and came with a fixed choke, and the 3" chambered versions were designated Magnum models. Models built after 1986 offer the RemChoke Interchangeable choke tube system, and the 12 and 20 gauge versions are chambered in 3" for either 2 3/4" or 3" shells. Prior to the introduction of the "Police" model 870, altered Wingmasters were popular among law enforcement.
Police – Blued or Parkerized steel with satin walnut, stained hardwood, or synthetic stocks. These models feature a stronger sear spring and magazine spring, and they receive extra care and inspections during assembly. The Police models also often have an extended tube magazine.
Marine – Nickel plated with synthetic stocks.
Express – Matte blue/black bead-blasted with laminated hardwood or synthetic stocks and chambered for 2 3/4" and 3" 12 or 20 gauge shotshells. All Expresses have been chambered in 3" in 12 and 20 gauge, but markings have varied.
Super Mag – Chambered for 3½" 12 gauge shotshells.
MCS (Modular Combat Shotgun) – A new modular version of the M870 which can be quickly modified with different barrels, magazine tubes, and stocks for different purposes, such as urban combat and door breaching.
There are hundreds of variations of the Remington 870 in 12, 16, 20, 28 gauges and .410 bore. From the original fifteen models offered, Remington currently produces dozens of models for civilian, law enforcement, and military sales. 870 variants can be grouped into:
Wingmaster – Blued steel with high gloss or satin walnut stocks. They have been offered in Skeet, Trap, and field configurations. Originally the basic Wingmaster was chambered for 2 3/4" rounds and came with a fixed choke, and the 3" chambered versions were designated Magnum models. Models built after 1986 offer the RemChoke Interchangeable choke tube system, and the 12 and 20 gauge versions are chambered in 3" for either 2 3/4" or 3" shells. Prior to the introduction of the "Police" model 870, altered Wingmasters were popular among law enforcement.
Police – Blued or Parkerized steel with satin walnut, stained hardwood, or synthetic stocks. These models feature a stronger sear spring and magazine spring, and they receive extra care and inspections during assembly. The Police models also often have an extended tube magazine.
Marine – Nickel plated with synthetic stocks.
Express – Matte blue/black bead-blasted with laminated hardwood or synthetic stocks and chambered for 2 3/4" and 3" 12 or 20 gauge shotshells. All Expresses have been chambered in 3" in 12 and 20 gauge, but markings have varied.
Super Mag – Chambered for 3½" 12 gauge shotshells.
MCS (Modular Combat Shotgun) – A new modular version of the M870 which can be quickly modified with different barrels, magazine tubes, and stocks for different purposes, such as urban combat and door breaching.
SpeedRacer
Well-Known Member
Having owned both (sold my Express and own a Wingmaster Police), the action and trigger on the Wingmaster is much smoother and it feels like a tank, while the Express felt like a cheap toy in comparison.
Here's what Remington says about the difference between the Express and the Police guns:
REMINGTON ARMS COMPANY, LE DIVISION
Important differences between Remington 870 Police and 870 Express shotguns
The 870 Express has been an important part of Remington’s offering to the sporting market.
It was designed to meet a price point in the commercial market while still providing classic 870 functionality.
All of Remington’s 870’s have interchangeable parts, even if they have cosmetic differences.
It is also important to note that many manufacturers use the 870 Express platform for their Police / Combat models.
Without exception, every manufacturer who utilizes our 870 platform serves to upgrade their system to a more efficient, street worthy platform.
While the 870 Express is still an 870, the best pump shotgun on the market, there are some very important cosmetic and functional differences between it and the 870 Police.
To our customers in Law Enforcement, Military, Corrections, and Security, whose lives depend upon the unfailing performance of Remington shotguns, the Police modifications are of paramount importance. Synopses of the variances are provided below.
• 870 Police shotguns go thru a special 23 station check list – ranging from visual inspection, functional testing, test firing, and final inspection.
• All Police shotguns are assembled in a *special build area* at the plant in Ilion, NY. This section is secured and serves only to build LE and Military shotguns, with the same factory personnel working at that assignment each shift.
• All parts that enter the *special build area* are visually inspected by hand to ensure top quality and functionality.
• Due to heavy recoil in buck and slug loads, all 870 Police guns have a longer magazine spring which ensures positive feed and function.
• A heavier sear spring is used to generate a reliable, positive trigger pull between 5 and 8 lbs.
• A heavier carrier dog spring is used to ensure when the carrier elevates the shell, it will be held there until the bolt can push it into the chamber. This ensures positive feeding when using heavier payload rounds.
• Police shotguns do not have an ISS (Integrated Safety System) which is a locking mechanism on the safety of commercial shotguns. This type of locking mechanism can cause delay to an officer who needs the weapon but does not have the appropriate key. LE shotguns have the standard, proven, cross bolt safety.
• The fore-end on the Express model is longer and not compatible with many police shotgun vehicle racks.
• The Police shotguns utilize the heavy duty SPEEDFEED Stocks and Fore-ends.
• The Express model will not allow for the addition of an extension tube without physical modification to the tube and barrel, which can nullify the warranty.
• The Express model has a BEAD BLAST BLUE finish while the Police models utilize either High Luster bluing or Parkerization.
• The Express model utilizes a synthetic trigger housing while the Police models use a compressed metal housing.
• The Police shotgun barrel is locked down with a *ball detent* system in conjunction with the magazine cap vs. a lesser grade *synthetic magazine spring retainer* lock down as used on the Express system.
• The receivers used in Police guns are *vibra honed* to smooth out rough finishes and remove burrs before parkerization or bluing.
• Police shotguns use machined ejectors and extractors, as opposed to powdered metal cast which are utilized on the Express models.
REMINGTON ARMS COMPANY, LE DIVISION
Important differences between Remington 870 Police and 870 Express shotguns
The 870 Express has been an important part of Remington’s offering to the sporting market.
It was designed to meet a price point in the commercial market while still providing classic 870 functionality.
All of Remington’s 870’s have interchangeable parts, even if they have cosmetic differences.
It is also important to note that many manufacturers use the 870 Express platform for their Police / Combat models.
Without exception, every manufacturer who utilizes our 870 platform serves to upgrade their system to a more efficient, street worthy platform.
While the 870 Express is still an 870, the best pump shotgun on the market, there are some very important cosmetic and functional differences between it and the 870 Police.
To our customers in Law Enforcement, Military, Corrections, and Security, whose lives depend upon the unfailing performance of Remington shotguns, the Police modifications are of paramount importance. Synopses of the variances are provided below.
• 870 Police shotguns go thru a special 23 station check list – ranging from visual inspection, functional testing, test firing, and final inspection.
• All Police shotguns are assembled in a *special build area* at the plant in Ilion, NY. This section is secured and serves only to build LE and Military shotguns, with the same factory personnel working at that assignment each shift.
• All parts that enter the *special build area* are visually inspected by hand to ensure top quality and functionality.
• Due to heavy recoil in buck and slug loads, all 870 Police guns have a longer magazine spring which ensures positive feed and function.
• A heavier sear spring is used to generate a reliable, positive trigger pull between 5 and 8 lbs.
• A heavier carrier dog spring is used to ensure when the carrier elevates the shell, it will be held there until the bolt can push it into the chamber. This ensures positive feeding when using heavier payload rounds.
• Police shotguns do not have an ISS (Integrated Safety System) which is a locking mechanism on the safety of commercial shotguns. This type of locking mechanism can cause delay to an officer who needs the weapon but does not have the appropriate key. LE shotguns have the standard, proven, cross bolt safety.
• The fore-end on the Express model is longer and not compatible with many police shotgun vehicle racks.
• The Police shotguns utilize the heavy duty SPEEDFEED Stocks and Fore-ends.
• The Express model will not allow for the addition of an extension tube without physical modification to the tube and barrel, which can nullify the warranty.
• The Express model has a BEAD BLAST BLUE finish while the Police models utilize either High Luster bluing or Parkerization.
• The Express model utilizes a synthetic trigger housing while the Police models use a compressed metal housing.
• The Police shotgun barrel is locked down with a *ball detent* system in conjunction with the magazine cap vs. a lesser grade *synthetic magazine spring retainer* lock down as used on the Express system.
• The receivers used in Police guns are *vibra honed* to smooth out rough finishes and remove burrs before parkerization or bluing.
• Police shotguns use machined ejectors and extractors, as opposed to powdered metal cast which are utilized on the Express models.
That's excellent information and very thorough and detailed.
Do you have a link to where this might be officially posted, or if there was a screenshot of a letter/webpage, so I can pass this on?
ETA: Found this: http://www.educationalsurplus.com/s... 870 model types.pdf?auc=556233&docid=3346963
Do you have a link to where this might be officially posted, or if there was a screenshot of a letter/webpage, so I can pass this on?
ETA: Found this: http://www.educationalsurplus.com/s... 870 model types.pdf?auc=556233&docid=3346963
Last edited:
found this also, interesting if true.
"Well I can assure you that is the wrong part as that is an 870 carrier dog follower spring that comes in every 870.
There is no 870 Police Carrier dog follower spring listed on any part list anywhere, anyplace as no such part exsist.
If you go to my web site www.aiptactical.com and click on the red link to the How to videos and then on the how to video "Carrier Dog follower Spring" you will see where I show a black spring that is used in the P model in place of the carrier dog follower spring. It is part number 16966 and is a model 1100 carrier latch spring and retails for $3.20 from Remington."
__________________
J.D. McGuire, Owner
AI&P Tactical, LLC
www.aiptactical.com
Remington Factory Certified
Law Enforcement Armorer
"Well I can assure you that is the wrong part as that is an 870 carrier dog follower spring that comes in every 870.
There is no 870 Police Carrier dog follower spring listed on any part list anywhere, anyplace as no such part exsist.
If you go to my web site www.aiptactical.com and click on the red link to the How to videos and then on the how to video "Carrier Dog follower Spring" you will see where I show a black spring that is used in the P model in place of the carrier dog follower spring. It is part number 16966 and is a model 1100 carrier latch spring and retails for $3.20 from Remington."
__________________
J.D. McGuire, Owner
AI&P Tactical, LLC
www.aiptactical.com
Remington Factory Certified
Law Enforcement Armorer
Quickdraw22
I SPEAK DA THUGG!1!
Plastic trigger groups (just like in the new Rugers), have only been around for 5-8 years AFAIK.
I don't even know what I have lol
It shoots 2-3/4" and 3". Is 6+1.
Pump. Does/Did not have these "dimples" but does not have police written on it.....
It shoots 2-3/4" and 3". Is 6+1.
Pump. Does/Did not have these "dimples" but does not have police written on it.....
Gunfighter
Well-Known Member
After reading this it sounds like the two are look alikes but completely different shotguns. All this time I thought it was just the appearence aspect.
Mechanically they are the same, all the parts are interchangeable.
I doubt it. I have used my 870 harder than any police officer ever will.
I've got over 8,000 Shells through my 94' Express 20ga. and it hunts every bird every bird season.
Smooth as Silk(Definitely not Burry? lol) and as superficial as it may sound, I've simply never had a single issue with the gun. I've run over it with a 4 wheeler when it came off the rack, it's slid off of a Truck Tool Box onto the asphalt. It's been under water a few times and got me out of a very icy situation once too.
I mean IMO that spells durable dependability. Why would I look elsewhere with performance like that? I hear the later Express Models might have had an issue with the parkerizing over spray or something? Not sure but it's not a problem with mine.
my .02
Smooth as Silk(Definitely not Burry? lol) and as superficial as it may sound, I've simply never had a single issue with the gun. I've run over it with a 4 wheeler when it came off the rack, it's slid off of a Truck Tool Box onto the asphalt. It's been under water a few times and got me out of a very icy situation once too.
I mean IMO that spells durable dependability. Why would I look elsewhere with performance like that? I hear the later Express Models might have had an issue with the parkerizing over spray or something? Not sure but it's not a problem with mine.
my .02
dixiejarhead
Well-Known Member
I've got over 8,000 Shells through my 94' Express 20ga. and it hunts every bird every bird season.
Smooth as Silk(Definitely not Burry? lol) and as superficial as it may sound, I've simply never had a single issue with the gun. I've run over it with a 4 wheeler when it came off the rack, it's slid off of a Truck Tool Box onto the asphalt. It's been under water a few times and got me out of a very icy situation once too.
I mean IMO that spells durable dependability. Why would I look elsewhere with performance like that? I hear the later Express Models might have had an issue with the parkerizing over spray or something? Not sure but it's not a problem with mine.
my .02
People often look for reasons to justify spending more money on something and to tell you what they have is better than what you have. In reality - and in some areas such as the pump shotgun market - it really does'nt matter, they perform the same. Been my experiance for the past 25 years....
Well I'm not saying anyone here is saying that but that's been my experience with an 870 and everyone I've ever talked to (in person) has had the same thing to say about them. Regardless of whether or not it's an Express/Police/Marine/Wingmaster etc.
They just work.
Still working on getting a VersaMax though
I had poor experience with my 870 Express Magnum I purchased around 2008. It didn't like low brass light skeet loads, and would routinely stick in chamber, requiring me to "mortar" the slide. Buck and rifled Slug was fine, though I didn't shoot /nearly/ the volume of those as I did various birdshot.
When I first bought it, it was a very rough shotgun. It would not cycle rounds until my father and I took it completely down and cleaned and oiled surfaces and worked the action for quite a while. We sat in the basement for a while, passing the gun back and forth, working the action, while watching a race on his old TV. Then checked to make sure it was oiled and put grease in a couple good places. Then when we went out again to bust some clays, it did better. Not much of an issue after that.
That left a bad taste in my mouth for the 'Express' line ever since. I know.. one gun.. but a lot of what gun people do is 'personal' - from justifying their cheap guns (Hi Points to Kel Tecs) to justifying their high end fashion brands (Noveske, Hk) Then... some just get a chubby at "customs" and unique items.
To each his own. It's a big, big gun world.
When I first bought it, it was a very rough shotgun. It would not cycle rounds until my father and I took it completely down and cleaned and oiled surfaces and worked the action for quite a while. We sat in the basement for a while, passing the gun back and forth, working the action, while watching a race on his old TV. Then checked to make sure it was oiled and put grease in a couple good places. Then when we went out again to bust some clays, it did better. Not much of an issue after that.
That left a bad taste in my mouth for the 'Express' line ever since. I know.. one gun.. but a lot of what gun people do is 'personal' - from justifying their cheap guns (Hi Points to Kel Tecs) to justifying their high end fashion brands (Noveske, Hk) Then... some just get a chubby at "customs" and unique items.
To each his own. It's a big, big gun world.
"I had poor experience with my 870 Express Magnum I purchased around 2008. It didn't like low brass light skeet loads, and would routinely stick in chamber, requiring me to "mortar" the slide. Buck and rifled Slug was fine, though I didn't shoot /nearly/ the volume of those as I did various birdshot."
i had the same experience with low brass low recoil buckshot, and noticed that it worked fine with everything else. kept wondering why i was having problems until i noticed the low brass low recoil buckshot did not have a brass head but was made out of aluminum. no aluminum, no problem
i had the same experience with low brass low recoil buckshot, and noticed that it worked fine with everything else. kept wondering why i was having problems until i noticed the low brass low recoil buckshot did not have a brass head but was made out of aluminum. no aluminum, no problem
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