Came across this "What Is the Best Weapon for Home Defense?"

[SpeedRacer]

I don't use that target (i use smaller ones because i am harder on myself), and i have also taken a class (1). I did realize how much i sucked after taken it but i did not walk away without learning anything either. Thats why i spend a lot of time at the range. I could go back and forth about training for the moment but the truth is that you hope that muscle memory kicks in whenever it happens instead of shitting yourself or panicing with that said i am not and in no way knocking anyone that trains for such matters i just perfer to spend my time with family that i know i enjoy instead of training for the "what if".

Even taking one class is a huge step in the right direction. I wasn't implying that you need to train constantly (not a bad idea though!), just saying that taking even one defensive shooting course is eye opening, brings weaknesses to the surface and gives you a foundation of things to practice that you will NEVER realize through static range shooting.

And I think it's silly to state that training prevents spending time with the family. Commiting to even one weekend of training a year is a great investment of time, and 16 hours is not exactly a huge sacrifice to increase your ability to protect yourself and loved ones.

 

[OneStory]

Train with your family...

About that woman and her baby in the trailer in OK, I wonder how much hearing loss she or the baby suffered by using her shotgun instead of her pistol...or if it even matters to her considering what she had to do.

 

[SpeedRacer]

Train with your family...

About that woman and her baby in the trailer in OK, I wonder how much hearing loss she or the baby suffered by using her shotgun instead of her pistol...or if it even matters to her considering what she had to do.

Probably none. Google "auditory exclusion". Bearco and I were just discussing this yesterday. Our bodies do some crazy stuff when in "survival mode".

 

[OneStory]

Probably none. Google "auditory exclusion". Bearco and I were just discussing this yesterday. Our bodies do some crazy stuff when in "survival mode".

Man, I've experienced that!!! I perceived that I heard Nothing!

...but not perceiving the sound in your brain doesn't mean the damage didn't happen...or does it?

 

[JWG223]

Anyone who thinks they don't need to take a class has never taken a class. Day one, first drill you'll realize how much a) different defensive shooting is vs. static range shooting and b) realize how much you suck.

No worries though, as long as a B-27 silhoutte breaks into your house and stands still exactly 15yds away you'll have no problem protecting yourself and your family.

Agree 100% and I have not taken a class yet

I have a few planned for 2012, though.

I figured out how much I sucked at driving when I went to Spring Mountain even though 300+rwhp 6-peed and other stuff had been my daily-driver for years.
Looking forward to learning how bad I such at shooting so I can improve that, too.

All that said, I think the AR-15 is the ideal platform for killing just about anything under 300 yards away, and under 400#.

 

[JWG223]

Man, I've experienced that!!! I perceived that I heard Nothing!

...but not perceiving the sound in your brain doesn't mean the damage didn't happen...or does it?

The damage still occurs.

 

[JWG223]

The OP made some good points but there was no consideration about the layout or construstion of the home as each home is different.

+1, and ICF interior-walled home will NOT be the same as Bubba's trailer.

 

[my-rifle]

Well stated, but I literally couldn't disagree more.

Back to the OP, it's a good write-up though obviously bias. Imagine that, an AR15 forum declares a carbine is the best choice. I love how their only "Con" for the carbine is cost.

Not that I disagree, personally I prefer a pistol but agree a carbine is the right choice in a lot of situations. I just think the choice goes well beyond the weapon itself. Based on the layout of my house, the fact I have a 3yr old, the fact that I'm most competent with a handgun, and the fact that I feel that a free hand is a valuable commodity, I choose a pistol. Has nothing to do with stopping power, over penetration, yada yada.

This may be because of your perspective. Perspective is after all everything.

You train a lot, and therefore see the world in terms of waiting for the time you'll need to use the training. Many of us prefer to play the odds and realize that the odds of us as individuals needing this training are about as close to zero as it gets. Because of that we just don't see the urgency. Now having said this I'll state one thing that I learned in my first (and only) competition: Under stress, bullets don't seem to go where they're supposed to go.

I'll also add that I'd love to have the luxury of being able to take tactical training seminars, but alas I have a family, and I'm trying to be a good father.

 

[Sin-ster]

Anyone who thinks they don't need to take a class has never taken a class. Day one, first drill you'll realize how much a) different defensive shooting is vs. static range shooting and b) realize how much you suck.

No worries though, as long as a B-27 silhoutte breaks into your house and stands still exactly 15yds away you'll have no problem protecting yourself and your family.

Did I ever tell you that I loved you?

To expand on your follow up post-- after the first class, I find it's VERY common for people to seek out more. That initial revelation leads most people to seek out more proficiency.

 

[Nomad.2nd]

This may be because of your perspective. Perspective is after all everything.

You train a lot, and therefore see the world in terms of waiting for the time you'll need to use the training. Many of us prefer to play the odds and realize that the odds of us as individuals needing this training are about as close to zero as it gets. Because of that we just don't see the urgency. Now having said this I'll state one thing that I learned in my first (and only) competition: Under stress, bullets don't seem to go where they're supposed to go.

I'll also add that I'd love to have the luxury of being able to take tactical training seminars, but alas I have a family, and I'm trying to be a good father.

You could say the same about your house burning down.


Gonna drop the coverage?

ETA: Underlined iswhy you SHOULD be practicing.

 

[SpeedRacer]

I'll also add that I'd love to have the luxury of being able to take tactical training seminars, but alas I have a family, and I'm trying to be a good father.

I have a family too, are you implying that attending firearms training makes me a bad father? That's one of the dumbest things, and lamest excuses I've ever heard. In fact, it's BECAUSE I have a family that I've become more concerned with my ability to protect them as well as doing whatever I can to improve my odds of coming home at night.

And I understand we have vastly different perspectives, and there's no point in debating because neither of us is right or wrong, and neither is going to change our opinion. I'm okay with that, it makes the workd go 'round. But it has NOTHING to do with "being a good father" so don't even go there.

 

[Sin-ster]

This may be because of your perspective. Perspective is after all everything.

You train a lot, and therefore see the world in terms of waiting for the time you'll need to use the training. Many of us prefer to play the odds and realize that the odds of us as individuals needing this training are about as close to zero as it gets. Because of that we just don't see the urgency. Now having said this I'll state one thing that I learned in my first (and only) competition: Under stress, bullets don't seem to go where they're supposed to go.

I'll also add that I'd love to have the luxury of being able to take tactical training seminars, but alas I have a family, and I'm trying to be a good father.

The entirety of my upcoming effort will seem to be a waste of time; your mind is made up, and it's clear. Don't know if I ever told you this, but-- you're obviously a pretty intelligent person. But just intelligent enough to be dangerous-- to yourself, your loved ones, and others who might listen to what you have to say. You're just smart enough to think you always know what's right-- and that makes you pretty effing retarded, in the long run. (Drinking glowstick fluid and questionable jumping activity aside...)

So this post is for the benefit of others, just to clear that up.

If you own a gun for SD in the first place, and think you're playing the odds-- you're a sucker in the truest form. The odds state that you won't ever need it; congrats on wasting the money (recreational shooting aside, of course). This gets back to the HiPoint debate.

The single weakest link in a weapon system is the end user. The best gun and equipment on the planet won't be worth diddly if the person behind it cannot utilize the tool efficiently. We're big fans of posting news stories about home owners and CCW holders using a weapon in defense of their lives, and those of their family. Just how many end up in the cemetery in the meantime, with a weapon close at hand? I dunno-- but my guess would be, a lot more than the media ever reports (or we hear about).

Under stress, bullets don't seem to go where they're supposed to go.

And with that revelation... your solution is to not worry about getting better? I was poised for a diatribe here, but I think your conclusion stands for itself.

I'll just add that there's a few hundred GM competition shooters who would beg to differ, on top of countless real-world professional shooters as well.

I'll also add that I'd love to have the luxury of being able to take tactical training seminars, but alas I have a family, and I'm trying to be a good father.

That's a very valid point, as it's worded. Although I get the feeling that you picture all of us who advocate training as lone nut, unfulfilled, overcompensating losers.

Speed's got a family; pangris does as well; spanky, Vanilla Gorilla, and on and on and on. (I'm the only solo loser in the group!)

If you're truly pent up for cash, that's one thing. But someone with a customized license plate obviously has at least a little cash to spare, here and there. IIRC, you make your own rifles-- AK variants at that. Given, you could have the necessary tools on hand for your job-- but I'm gonna go out on a limb and say that's not the case. Especially if you're bending your own receivers.

Rationalize it any way you like-- poorly, in terms of game theory BTW. But training is important, the moment (admittedly low percentage) that you find yourself in a fight for your life. I sincerely hope it never comes to that, as I fear your "playing of the odds" will come to bite you in the azz, in spades. Pun moderately intended.

Do some of us go a little "crazy"? Sure we do-- we enjoy it; give us our hobbies. Is it macho thinking? Maybe. In my case, it's a matter of drive-- I have to be the best at something that's worth my time and effort, and that's just how I roll. Some might call that obsessive; others, motivated.

"Perspective is after all everything", right? At least so long as it reinforces your pre-conceptions of what's true...

But your (characteristic) all-encompassing judgement of us as "guys just waiting/hoping for a gunfight" is way off base, and uncalled for. As is the upcoming accusation that we're all paranoid-- I'll go ahead and cut you off at the pass on that one. The last thing that any of us who are serious about the subject want is to find ourselves in that position; many of us have had close scrapes already, which spurned us into our quest for proficiency. It's all fine and dandy for you to have your own opinions-- that's your right, and as previously noted, there's obviously no way anyone around here (regardless of research, background or strength of logic) is going to change your mind. But seriously-- WhoTF are you to write us off so summarily?

Most importantly, I could genuinely care less about the potential consequences of your dangerous line of thinking as it applies to you and yours. (I'm notoriously cold; sue me.) But numerous folks come to this site with the genuine goal of expanding their knowledge, and as idealistic as it may sound, I sincerely feel as if the collective "we" are responsible for making sure they come away better informed than when they arrived. And not in terms of pseudo-logical common sense (that's actually anything but).

But I'll go ahead and bite, nonetheless-- admittedly, to make a point.

You've taken your unshakeable stance, and we've taken ours. Now prove the merits of your line of thinking, and provide us with the extensive background that has led you to this conclusion. I, for one, am open to anything that I can't pick apart.

 

[Sin-ster]

I totally forgot the OP!

It's a very relative question-- to the shooter and living situation, most notably.

In my old place of residence for example, my personal answer was an 870. Currently, it's my EDC.

 

[762NATO]

Dang Pangris, remind me to bring some body armor if I ever have to go to your house. (Nice setup by the way.)

Said it in another thread, and will say again that a gun is better than no gun; that said, some guns are better for the task than others.

 

[spanky]

With proper training you will come to learn that proper training is necessary.

 

[CEHollier]

My pistol of choice for home defense is the 1911 .45 ACP Government. It's also God's pistol of perfection.

 

[OneStory]

With proper training you will come to learn that proper training is necessary.

With improper training, what will you come to learn?

If only trainers could truthfully name their courses "Proper Training"!

Cases in point:
My son's Hunter Ed class. We're still laughing about that one! Dang! I'm laughing now!!! LOL
My initial CHP class. What a JOKE! Oh man, my sides hurt! LOL

Really, it's no laughing matter to the ones that were "mis-informed".

If we'd have not known better, we would have thought we received "proper training". Who knows what the our classmates thought...and DID with the "knowledge" they acquired???

Of course, that's my opinion. YMMV, depending on your definition of "proper training".

 

[chad]

How many people actually use assault weapon type carbines for self defense in the home? I'm talking AR/M4/AK. I know the 5.56 is a proven round with a lot of stopping power, but from a legal point I've never even considered using my AR as a home defense weapon, it stays in the safe. Is this a valid concern?

 

[SpeedRacer]

How many people actually use assault weapon type carbines for self defense in the home? I'm talking AR/M4/AK. I know the 5.56 is a proven round with a lot of stopping power, but from a legal point I've never even considered using my AR as a home defense weapon, it stays in the safe. Is this a valid concern?

Justified use of force is justfied use of force. Is a 55gr 5.56 round really any more evil than 00 Buck?

Assuming it's a clean shoot. If anything is in the grey area, I could see some DA's having issue with it, especially if you Zombie Killer plastered all over your rifle...

 

[dfsutton]

Justified use of force is justfied use of force. Is a 55gr 5.56 round really any more evil than 00 Buck?

Assuming it's a clean shoot. If anything is in the grey area, I could see some DA's having issue with it, especially if you Zombie Killer plastered all over your rifle...

Valid point about the zombie killer and other gheyness of the sort.