Looooooong Form 4 Wait Times

[WilsonCombatant]

I doubt it would work for singular cases, but congressmen grilled the ATF on what was taking so long and said if they don't speed it up, they'll cut their funding. I heard the NFA branch hired extra contract work to help speed things up.

They need to grill em again

 

[JCcypress]

This pertains to an NFA item registered as "individual", not under a trust. Copied from a google search just now:

"When someone who owns National Firearms Act (NFA) items dies, the executor of their estate must follow certain steps to transfer the items to their heirs:

1. Secure the items: Keep the NFA items in a safe place until the transfer is complete.
2. File ATF Form 5: The executor must complete a tax-free Form 5 application for each NFA item and submit it to the ATF for approval. The application will need to include the deceased's death certificate and a copy of their will if they named heirs.
3. Transfer the items: Once the application is approved, the executor can transfer the items to the heirs. If the heir is an individual, they will need to provide their fingerprints on FBI Form Page 2 FD-258 along with the transfer application. The ATF will not approve the application if any federal, state, or local laws prohibit the heir from receiving or possessing the firearm."

So there is a method to transfer say to your son upon your death, executor completes and submit Form 5 to the ATF. This transfer is tax exempt, no additional cost. Spell it out in your will, who gets what. And of course they have to be legally able to own such an item.

Just an FYI - While true, in a practical sense this is a pretty big pain in the neck to deal with. In order to execute on this type of transfer (Individual-to-heir), the estate of the decedent (deceased) will need to go through the probate process with the court and eventually be approved by a judge. Probate can be costly (attorney fees and/or court costs) and takes months at a minimum. Further, the matter is made public record, so the whole world can see which firearms are in the estate and who the firearms have been transferred to.

In my experience, most people will not know how to handle the transfer, complete the forms, etc. upon your death, regardless of the instructions you leave. I consistently get calls on this from wives and children of deceased individuals, as well as from other attorneys, to the point that it's become part of my practice. At a time when loved ones are already trying to deal with your death and make heads or tales of your estate, they are further faced with navigating a relatively obscure legal issue that requires more intervention and potentially more money to deal with.

When an NFA weapon is registered to a trust, the trust owns the weapon. In many cases there is no need for your heirs to take any immediate action upon your death, and it's possible that no transfer needs to be made at all. This is especially true when the named beneficiaries and trustees are the same people. Whether you wish to file for a transfer or not, there's no public record of any of it and no court intervention or probate process. With a trust, there is also a less of a chance that one of your heirs inadvertently finds themselves in illegal possession of an NFA weapon, exposing themselves to up to 10 years in federal prison and a fine of up to $250,000 - you have already taken steps to protect them.

On that same note, assigning trustees can also help loved ones avoid the illegal possession issue during your lifetime , and further allows you to share your gear with family members, hunting buddies, etc. as you please.

Just some things to think about...

 

[mickey]

Form 4 individual 3 days

 

[AustinBR]

Just had a Form 4 come through in two days for a SBR!

 

[SVT Bansheeman]

Can it be filed as an individual then put on an already established trust? We already have a trust.

 

[Bigchillin83]

Can it be filed as an individual then put on an already established trust? We already have a trust.

Yes.. just have to pay another $200 tax stamp, but you are allowed to have NFA item till approved

 

[kpm]

Form 4 approved 2 months and 10 days on attorney prep trust (jc cypress).

I’m pleased just in time for hunting season. My last suppressor in 2021 took 9 months.

 

[cymbal777]

Anyone else have a Form 4 that is taking forever? Mine has been in the pipes since last March 24.

Mike

I feel your pain,Mike. Took our efficient government to make me wait 14,yes 14 months for my first can. Second one I bought took over one year. The third one,{yes #3}, took little over a year. I count this as entire time I wait from start of process,not just when the ATF receives my application. Like the person at gun store who I purchased the suppressor from told me,why should the feds be in hurry for me to get my can? I am good now,just keep handloading my ammo,and buy some factory rounds from time ti time.

 

[Bigchillin83]

Form 4 approved 2 months and 10 days on attorney prep trust (jc cypress).

I’m pleased just in time for hunting season. My last suppressor in 2021 took 9 months.

Good to know!!

 

[twinin]

eForm 4 Individual Took 40 Hours. Submitted Monday afternoon 3:30 approved Wednesday Morning 7:00 AM

 

[John_]

eForm 4 Individual Took 40 Hours. Submitted Monday afternoon 3:30 approved Wednesday Morning 7:00 AM

DAMN, now dats fast. I honestly never thought we'd see that.

 

[SVT Bansheeman]

Form 4 approved 2 months and 10 days on attorney prep trust (jc cypress).

I’m pleased just in time for hunting season. My last suppressor in 2021 took 9 months.

Interesting. Mine with Melplat hasn't clear yet since last December. But if they (trust) start to see much quicker times, I may keep doing it on our trust rather than start doing it as an individual.

I do love how I can do everything over the phone and email with them which is a huge plus. Then go pick it up at their range is icing on the cake.

 

[JCcypress]

Form 4 approved 2 months and 10 days on attorney prep trust (jc cypress).

I’m pleased just in time for hunting season. My last suppressor in 2021 took 9 months.

Nice! Glad it worked out!
I've had a number of other clients report similar wait times for their trusts recently.

 

[thperez1972]

Interesting. Mine with Melplat hasn't clear yet since last December. But if they (trust) start to see much quicker times, I may keep doing it on our trust rather than start doing it as an individual.

I do love how I can do everything over the phone and email with them which is a huge plus. Then go pick it up at their range is icing on the cake.

Did you have to go it initially to get your prints and photo on file or does he accept an eft file for your prints? I had my prints on file with him when I decided to get a mist barrel for a 10/22. Being able to take care of everything without having to schedule a time to drive down there was a big help.

 

[WilsonCombatant]

Interesting. Mine with Melplat hasn't clear yet since last December. But if they (trust) start to see much quicker times, I may keep doing it on our trust rather than start doing it as an individual.

I do love how I can do everything over the phone and email with them which is a huge plus. Then go pick it up at their range is icing on the cake.

I’m in the same boat as you. Paid 1400.00 in nfa taxes. Still nothing to show for it yet. If they’re gonna do you dry, they should at least be quick about it.

 

[meplatgroup]

Hi all, I don’t usually participate in discussions about wait times because I don’t feel they are necessarily productive. I’ve been in the business a dozen years and have formed well over ten thousand items in that time. What I’ve found is there is just too much human factor involved at the ATF to give any reliable estimates. The bureaucracy has no incentive to be efficient.

That said, with great trepidation and the caveat that no results are typical, I can report that we have received back SOME eFile trust form 4s recently in one to two days. We have many more sitting at months. No rhyme or reason to it.

I share this because I, as the person with the largest sample size in this thread, now believe that all filings are trending toward quicker approvals. We have had paper filings come back in a few weeks as well for trusts.

Things are moving in the right direction. My advice currently is the same as it has always been.

1) Don’t fixate on the wait times. Buy an item from a qualified dealer who will draft your documents quickly and efficiently and then try to forget about it. The happiest clients are the ones that hang up on us when we call them to tell them their stamp is in because they have forgotten about it and think it’s a sales call. The nerds who want to pull up a counter on their phone and tell you how many days it has been are so jaded by their fixation that they aren’t really happy to get their stuff.

2) The sooner you buy something (or more accurately the sooner your forms are filed) the quicker you will get it back. Your wait time is going to be your wait time. Everyone wants to strategically buy and try to game the system and that’s cool, but the days you spend thinking and grinding and planning are days you are adding until your can is in your hand.

Existing customers waiting on cans, please don’t call and ask if your forms are in. The girls will kill me if they have to field a million calls and texts. I promise we will call you ASAP upon approval. We want these items out of here as badly as you want to pick them up.

If you need help with NFA items and want an A to Z solution where we draft your trust (on a table that Joseph built), sell you NFA items, and do all your paperwork, call or text us at 504-5.56-2000.

And do yourself a favor and check out our range down in Cut Off. It’s the nicest, longest, and friendliest range in the state of Louisiana. On the socials @cutoffrange.

Best,
Kenny

 

[SVT Bansheeman]

Did you have to go it initially to get your prints and photo on file or does he accept an eft file for your prints? I had my prints on file with him when I decided to get a mist barrel for a 10/22. Being able to take care of everything without having to schedule a time to drive down there was a big help.

We had to go the first time time. But after that, we did not. I absolutely hate driving in the "city".