open carry for someone under 21

[Witiku]

The reason LEOs won't get involved in a discussion like this is because when they try to present the facts (as opposed to what some vocal folks THINK should be the case), they get jumped on, called jack-booted thugs, etc.

I had this happen to me on GlockTalk. ----SNIP----But when I tried to point out the fact that open carry was in general a bad idea, you would have thought I urinated on the flag. I know most of you mean well, and are genuinely interested in some hard information. But there's no way I'm going to get involved in that sort of crap again. The few ruin it for the many.

LSP,
I followed that thread too. Amazing how people want to shoot the messanger.

Your points on the real world reaction of the police were right on IMHO.

Those people ignore the real world with criminals ... and open carry in their sight is just stupid. Cops also look at open carry and overreact as it's not customary in a rural stranger rich place. Thats the real gripe the negative posters were getting at. That and the fact they think people objecting to their OC is unjust.

I don't know if I've ever writen this before but I believe the Fact is, open carry has always been looked at as threatening even in the wild west. With the political climate now in LA, it might get you accidentally shot by a fellow good guy. Stupid.

The real value of the law these days as I see it is that, in urban areas, to make any chance exposure of your carry weapon a legal act by there being no issue transitioning from open to concealed and back. That's a great tool for the pro 2A movement and a real stick in the eye of the Brady Nazis statistic mongers.

Don't let internet cowboys quiet you either. I'm sure the majority of them are in fact nerds, too young and blind to the world to censor their own comments of insult on another.

Best,
W

 

[spanky]

LSP, what troop are you in?

 

[spanky]

Congrats.

 

[sloopy70]

this is a little late in the thread but I'm pretty sure there is an obvious difference in Open carry, and Concealed. Technically even if the gun was floating in the air without your hands on it, you can't see the back side of the gun... as in the Mississippi comment about even if your weapon is holstered that it is still concealed... even though it is still in plain sight... I've always been told that If you can see the weapon which could be worn in a hip holster NOT covered by a shirt or vest or whatever or where ever that it is, it is not concealed... Concealed=hidden from vision... Open=In plain View...

 

[Tantrix]

Yep...a handgun in a holster is not concealed. If you flip your shirt over it and cover the entire rig though, then it is. I carry OWB in a Bianchi 7 Shadow II with a plain white undershirt tucked in. Basically I get in my car with my cover shirt in my hand (dark colored t-shirt or polo) and flip it over my seat by the headrest. If I decide to open carry, I simply get out of my car with just my undershirt tucked in and holster/gun completely visible. When I want to conceal, I throw my cover shirt on before I get out of the car and bam I'm concealed.

 

[dawg23]

and technically it depends on parish laws too, cause some parishes have their own laws about keeping a weapon in a car/on your person. Orleans is pretty strict about things, i hear from some officers that you can't have the gun concealed on your person in the car in Orleans, but in Jefferson it's fine. So, its all a matter of who's telling you what that day it seems.

I am late seeing this thread, but felt like I might add a note:

A few parishes in the New Orleans area enacted ordinances that conflict with Louisiana's Concealed Handgun statutes (e.g "You can't carry concealed in {blank} parish). It is my understanding, based on info given me by the head of LA's Concealed Handgun Unit, that these parish or local laws cannot supersede state statutes (Acts of the Legislature).

Similarly, ordinances saying you can't have a weapon concealed in your vehicle would be unconstitutional (since you r vehicle is an extension of your home).

YMMV, but it shouldn't.

 

[glockboy98]

i talked to my boss and I was right that its illegal for someone under 21 to purchase a handgun, whether it be from a friend or what. If you're under 21 you can have a handgun in your possession but it must beloing to a legal guardian, something along those lines. So you can't legally be 20 and buy a handgun at all.

 

[trentwoodard]

i talked to my boss and I was right that its illegal for someone under 21 to purchase a handgun, whether it be from a friend or what. If you're under 21 you can have a handgun in your possession but it must beloing to a legal guardian, something along those lines. So you can't legally be 20 and buy a handgun at all.

Do you/your boss have a reference for this? Perhaps some law that can be quoted?

 

[4sooth]

Open carry

Glockboy98---open carry is 100% legal in ALL cities,towns,villages and municipalities in the state of Louisiana.

No town or city or municipality may supercede state law concerning anything.If the state says you can do it or not do it--that is the final word on the matter.

State vs Ferrand,SO.2nd (circa1995) the last paragraph,"the public possession of an openly displayed handgun IS NOT A CRIME in Louisiana and does not alone provide probable cause for an arrest".

I agree that in some or many areas the police genuinely believe it is illegal to openly carry and may try to perform an arrest under the guise of many such bs things as "disturbing the peace,illegal carrying of a weapon,alarming the public,creating a disturbance" and many other non-existing statutes.

Since open carry is not a crime then the officer has no cause to approach you if ,absent the gun ,what you are doing is not a crime--such as walking down the street,buying groceries,standing in line at Starbucks and usual day to day activities.

Keep in mind if you enter a business open carrying and are asked to leave or to not bring the gun in the place then you must comply with the owners wishes.

Here is more food for thought---if you live in a subdivision which falls within the 1000 foot no firearms zone around a school can you open carry in the neighborhood legally????

Research this and tell me what you believe would be the case.

 

[CavalryJim]

Here is more food for thought---if you live in a subdivision which falls within the 1000 foot no firearms zone around a school can you open carry in the neighborhood legally????

Research this and tell me what you believe would be the case.

Yes. If the firearm you are openly carrying was made in Louisiana (Essential Arms, etc.), then the federal 'no firearms zone' laws do not apply.

 

[spanky]

i talked to my boss and I was right that its illegal for someone under 21 to purchase a handgun, whether it be from a friend or what. If you're under 21 you can have a handgun in your possession but it must beloing to a legal guardian, something along those lines. So you can't legally be 20 and buy a handgun at all.

Can you post proof of this? The only laws I can find related to sale or possession of firearms for any age limit is specifically listed as "under 18."

 

[penguin]

Yes. If the firearm you are openly carrying was made in Louisiana (Essential Arms, etc.), then the federal 'no firearms zone' laws do not apply.

What law says that? The Guns Free Zone Act of 90 was ruled unconstitutional but Louisiana law took over for the 1k law. I think you are getting the gist of the whole commerce clause issue, but not all of it. A big deal was whether the commerce clause would cover the GFZA.

http://www.supremelaw.org/decs/lopez/lopez.htm

That's the court decision. Now, Lousiana has a law on her books saying you can not bring ANY weapon within 1k of a school.

§95. Illegal carrying of weapons

A. Illegal carrying of weapons is:

(1) The intentional concealment of any firearm, or other instrumentality customarily used or intended for probable use as a dangerous weapon, on one's person; or

(this is the part that 'or' defines. It need not be concealed as in section 95(A)(1))

(5)(a) The intentional possession or use by any person of a dangerous weapon on a school campus during regular school hours or on a school bus. "School" means any elementary, secondary, high school, or vo-tech school in this state and "campus" means all facilities and property within the boundary of the school property. "School bus" means any motor bus being used to transport children to and from school or in connection with school activities.

(b) The provisions of this Paragraph shall not apply to:

(i) A peace officer as defined by R.S. 14:30(B) in the performance of his official duties.

(ii) A school official or employee acting during the normal course of his employment or a student acting under the direction of such school official or employee.

(iii) Any person having the written permission of the principal or school board and engaged in competition or in marksmanship or safety instruction.

Then on to:

§95.6. Firearm-free zone; notice; signs; crime; penalties

A. A "firearm-free zone" is an area inclusive of any school campus and within one thousand feet of any such school campus, and within a school bus.

B. The provisions of this Section shall not apply to:

(1) A federal, state, or local law enforcement building.

(2) A military base.

(3) A commercial establishment which is permitted by law to have firearms or armed security.

(4) Private premises where a firearm is kept pursuant to law.

(5) Any constitutionally protected activity within the firearm-free zone, such as a firearm contained entirely within a motor vehicle.

C. For purposes of this Section:

(1) "School" means any public or private elementary, secondary, high school, or vocational-technical school, college, or university in this state.

(2) "School campus" means all facilities and property within the boundary of the school property.

(3) "School bus" means any motor bus being used to transport children to and from school or in connection with school activities.

D. The local governing authority which has jurisdiction over zoning matters in which each firearm-free zone is located shall publish a map clearly indicating the boundaries of each firearm-free zone in accordance with the specifications in Subsection A. The firearm-free zone map shall be made an official public document and placed with the clerk of court for the parish or parishes in which the firearm-free zone is located.

E. The state superintendent of education, with the approval of the State Board of Elementary and Secondary Education, and the commissioner of higher education, with the approval of the Board of Regents, shall develop a method by which to mark firearm-free zones, including the use of signs or other markings suitable to the situation. Signs or other markings shall be located in a visible manner on or near each school and on and in each school bus indicating that such area is a firearm-free zone and that such zone extends to one thousand feet from the boundary of school property. The state Department of Education shall assist each approved school with the posting of notice as required in this Subsection.

F.(1) It is unlawful for any person to cover, remove, deface, alter, or destroy any sign or other marking identifying a firearm-free zone as provided in this Section.

(2) Whoever violates the provisions of this Subsection shall be fined not more than one thousand dollars or imprisoned for not more than six months, or both.

Acts 1992, No. 197, §1; Acts 1993, No. 844, §1; Acts 1993, No. 1031, §1.

In sum; the federal laws regarding concealed/open carry do not apply to Louisiana schools. However, the state laws do. There is no difference if the weapon is manufactured in the state or not and it doesn't matter if the weapon is concealed or not. Your carry in a school zone must follow the above law to be correct. Now, you can carry in your car in a school zone.

 

[Top Kek]

i talked to my boss and I was right that its illegal for someone under 21 to purchase a handgun, whether it be from a friend or what. If you're under 21 you can have a handgun in your possession but it must beloing to a legal guardian, something along those lines. So you can't legally be 20 and buy a handgun at all.

US Code Link: http://frwebgate3.access.gpo.gov/cg...ISdocID=36185410996+0+0+0&WAISaction=retrieve

not a thing in there prohibiting a private party sale from a non-licensed individual to another under the age of 21.

 

[4sooth]

1000 ft zone

Penguin---that was a good post and reading of the law.

One of my buddies is a ranking officer with the SO here and we used to do reserve work togather.

He and I get together a couple of times a month to talk about the law relative to police work and especially where firearms are concerned.

He has been doing a good job of teaching the reserve units about the legalities of open carry.The subject of the 1000ft exclusionary zones came up so we dug into the statutes for guidance.

As you noted it is legal to carry a firearm onto school property in your automobile.

Per RS14.95.B,5 (in part) "any constitutionally permitted activity",concealed carry is also legal as is open carry as long as you do not set foot on school property.

Again--good post--keep up the good work!!!

 

[glockboy98]

All i'm saying is my boss owns a gun store, so I think he knows how the laws work, and isn't reading them off the internet. Yes, open carry is technically legal in Lousiana, but try it and see what happens. When a cop arrests you because someone called the police because youre carrying a firearm in public, then you'll believe me. They will get you on a ******** charge just to keep you off the street for a while, it might not stick but it'll inconvenience you enough to where you decide to not open carry(i've had more than enough JPSO and NOPD that come into my store tell me that exact thing) And how does it make any sense to you that an 18-20 year old can't legally purchase a pistol in a gun store...but somehow you could sell him one outside a gun store in a private sale..how does that make any sense to you what so ever? So, i couldn't legally buy one myself, but i can buy one without a background check or any kind of real paperwork what so ever as long as its outside on my own time...just doesn't make any sense to me. And besides since you have to LEGALLY be 21 to buy pistol ammo, what good would it do anyways if you couldn't buy ammo for the gun you couldn't legally go into a store to buy and had to buy from someone else because according to law you're not old enough to really purchase it anyway??? So if you honestly think under 21 pistol ownership is somehow allowed then you should honestly probably not own a firearm. just kidding, but seriously a guardian can have a pistol in his name that you can use but you can't "own" it. My parents had guns that i used and kept in my car when i was 18-20 but it wasn't mine, i didn't have paperwork with my name on it, it's their gun, but they allow me to use it, but they're still responsible for it. So if you want to be responsible for selling someone under aged a pistol and held responsible for what they do with it, go ahead. No sweat off my back brother. Like the saying goes, hard head makes a soft ass.


oh yeah side note...possession and ownership are two totally different things. You can possess something without owning it. I drive a car thats not in my name, i'm in possession of it while i'm driving it, doesn't mean i own it though does it???

 

[penguin]

All i'm saying is my boss owns a gun store, so I think he knows how the laws work, and isn't reading them off the internet. Yes, open carry is technically legal in Lousiana, but try it and see what happens. When a cop arrests you because someone called the police because youre carrying a firearm in public, then you'll believe me. They will get you on a ******** charge just to keep you off the street for a while, it might not stick but it'll inconvenience you enough to where you decide to not open carry(i've had more than enough JPSO and NOPD that come into my store tell me that exact thing)

I would back off of the 'reading the off the internet' rant. The 'internet' location that we are quoting from is the Louisiana state legisture website and the Federal code. That IS the law, regardless of what your boss says. If your boss is saying 'hey, he can't do that', ask him WHY and WHERE can you confirm this. If he's a good boss he'll want to show you so you too can get the same knowledge and better perform your duties. As it stands, what he is telling you is incorrect. Plus, I do this for a living so I know quite a bit about the law. I open carry alot and never get harassed. However, St. Tammany is a far cry from Orleans. I wouldn't open carry there as much as I do here. Like you said, the law is one thing but I don't want to take the chance of getting harassed (although I have open carried in the CBD a number of times).

And how does it make any sense to you that an 18-20 year old can't legally purchase a pistol in a gun store...but somehow you could sell him one outside a gun store in a private sale..how does that make any sense to you what so ever?

It doesn't. But the law does not prohibit the sale via private party of a handgun to persons 18-20. Specifically: La. Rev. Stat. § 14:91(A) only says you can't sell to anyone UNDER the age of 18. There is NO state age limit for gun store or private party for the span of 18-21. Now, federal law is different. Federal law restricts the age of a handgun purchase by a business licensed by the federal government to do so, to age 21. LA just didn't want to duplicate this process. Intrastate sales between individuals are fine as long as you are above 18.

So, i couldn't legally buy one myself, but i can buy one without a background check or any kind of real paperwork what so ever as long as its outside on my own time...just doesn't make any sense to me. And besides since you have to LEGALLY be 21 to buy pistol ammo, what good would it do anyways if you couldn't buy ammo for the gun you couldn't legally go into a store to buy and had to buy from someone else because according to law you're not old enough to really purchase it anyway??? So if you honestly think under 21 pistol ownership is somehow allowed then you should honestly probably not own a firearm. just kidding, but seriously a guardian can have a pistol in his name that you can use but you can't "own" it.

It's kind of like the early 1990's when La's law for drinking first went up from 18 to 21 (so the state could get much needed federal highway dollars). However, the law said it was illegal for ME to purchase alcohol if I was under 21. BUT, there was NOTHING in the legislation PROHIBITING the SALE to someone under 21. It was a horrible oversight that was corrected in the next legislative session. Needless to say, almost anyone would sell you a drink because they knew they couldn't get fined or in trouble. However, if you got caught, you would be arrested...lol

My parents had guns that i used and kept in my car when i was 18-20 but it wasn't mine, i didn't have paperwork with my name on it, it's their gun, but they allow me to use it, but they're still responsible for it.

Now you're getting into issues of culpability. If you're using the weapon, YOU are responsible. Albeit if you were under 18, they could hold a share of liability as well. You can't absolve yourself of liability by saying 'I shot someone with someone else's gun so I'm not at fault.'

oh yeah side note...possession and ownership are two totally different things. You can possess something without owning it. I drive a car thats not in my name, i'm in possession of it while i'm driving it, doesn't mean i own it though does it???

Yes and no. It really depends on the duration of possession. If you drive someones car for a day; no, you hold no interest in the car. If you borrow someones car for 2 months, that's a whole different story. Same goes for 'borrowing' a gun.

In sum;

*open carry is legal (with restrictions); however, you may get harassed in certain areas-'tis the nature of the beast. (state law)
*You can buy a handgun from a gun store AFTER you have reached 21. (Federal law)
*You can buy a handgun from a privater party AFTER you have reached 18. (state law)
*You can not buy handgun ammo UNTIL you turn 21. (federal law)

 

[CavalryJim]

Yes, open carry is technically legal in Lousiana, but try it and see what happens. When a cop arrests you because someone called the police because youre carrying a firearm in public, then you'll believe me.

There is nothing technical about it; open carry is legal in Louisiana. Yes, I do it frequently (in BR & surrounding areas)...just ask eWRXshun, he spoke to me once while I was doing it.

In reality, openly carrying is very anticlimactic. I do not dress like a thug nor do I portray a threatening attitude and nobody seems to notice or care…maybe they just assume I must be authorized (little do they know that everyone is authorized).

 

[penguin]

There is nothing technical about it; open carry is legal in Louisiana. Yes, I do it frequently (in BR & surrounding areas)...just ask eWRXshun, he spoke to me once while I was doing it.

In reality, openly carrying is very anticlimactic. I do not dress like a thug nor do I portray a threatening attitude and nobody seems to notice or care…maybe they just assume I must be authorized (little do they know that everyone is authorized).

I agree, most cities won't even worry about it. And I hate to say it, there is some profiling involved (which, sometimes, isn't a bad thing IMHO). If you see a white professional male or a white male dressed casually doing an open carry, no one will really mess with you. If you see a black man in some thuggish outfit doing open carry, I guarantee someone is calling the cops.

 

[glockboy98]

am i right or am i right about that whole federal law superceding state/local laws stuff??? i mean i can't be right 100% but i'm usually pretty darn close. Besides i'm glad open carrying in Baton Rouge is OK, i never go there so i'm not too concerned. Things are somewhat different in the New Orleans area, sure you can legally open carry(i'm not trying to say it's illegal at all), but you'll get harassed no matter what. There's too many people in the area, and someone is bound to call the cops on you, which inconveniences cops, so they're going to inconvenience you in return. Really though, how scared are you guys? I grew up in the 9th ward(new orleans east) for 21 years and never even thought about open carry and if I didn't think about it there, i really don't see why people outside orleans parish would worry. I think the world could use a few less armed, scared, upper class white people running around the streets. just my 2 cents though. And the whole asking about where i can find all these little technical laws, honestly i don't care. I know stuff enough to not be inconvenienced by searching for some statute i'm not worried about. I don't really feel the need to prove myself, worse comes to worse, i'll call up the ATF officers and ask how things work. Im worried about federal stuff here guys, since most gun crimes deal with federal law, i'm not too concerned that LA has a law saying i can legally tap dance in a public area with a shotgun as long as it's in full view from 8.345 feet away when the sun is aligned with jupiter and there's a chance of a full moon that week. Hope you guys don't take me too seriously, but honestly for every different person reading these laws, they'll somehow get a slightly different "meaning" of the law. I'll just stick to what the ATF says since they'll be the ones throwing me in the pen if i screw up.

 

[penguin]

am i right or am i right about that whole federal law superceding state/local laws stuff???

Nowhere does La state law usurp any federal law in regard to gun control.

though, how scared are you guys?

I'd rather be with than without. Why do you carry concealed?

And the whole asking about where i can find all these little technical laws, honestly i don't care.

Well if you're going to quote incorrect laws, you should care.

I know stuff enough to not be inconvenienced by searching for some statute i'm not worried about.

Obviously you don't. That's why I had to post the law.

I don't really feel the need to prove myself, worse comes to worse, i'll call up the ATF officers and ask how things work.

So what you're saying is that you are at your store telling people the incorrect law. When is worst to worse if that is not it?

Im worried about federal stuff here guys, since most gun crimes deal with federal law,

That's not true. The majority of gun crimes are state offenses. That's why they are brought in district courts here in La more often than in U.S. Federal Court.

i'm not too concerned that LA has a law saying i can legally tap dance in a public area with a shotgun as long as it's in full view from 8.345 feet away when the sun is aligned with jupiter and there's a chance of a full moon that week. Hope you guys don't take me too seriously, but honestly for every different person reading these laws, they'll somehow get a slightly different "meaning" of the law.

No, they don't. The law in this regard is clear. If you get a different interpretation reading the law, you don't understand the law. Not being rude, but that's the truth. There is NO ambiguity in them.

I'll just stick to what the ATF says since they'll be the ones throwing me in the pen if i screw up.

Well, they wouldn't. It depends on who brings you up on charges and what those charges are.


Look, I'm not trying to be rude or anything but if someone says 'hey, a 19 year old can't buy a handgun from a friend' that's just wrong. There isn't another interpretation that can be made by the law.