Practicality and tacticality of 12ga. slugs

[CUJOHUNTER]

So,how effective and accurate are 12 ga slugs out of lets say...a Mossberg 500 security shotgun? How do they stand up against a carbine in a defense situation? How cost effective are they? I usually take it with me when friends and I go out for some rifle plinking. There's usually a .223 or 7.62X39 in the mix and I'm usually the only one with a 12 gauge. I never feel undergunned with a 12ga,even with the lack of firepower,the results that come out of the business end are usually devastating. I'm talkin rifled slugs out of a smooth bore,what do ya'll say?

 

[Guate_shooter]

What distance are you talking about, inside quarters or outside, is over penetration a factor to consider or be worried about???????????

 

[CUJOHUNTER]

What distance are you talking about, inside quarters or outside, is over penetration a factor to consider or be worried about???????????

Close quarters. As far as outdoors...what is the maximum distance for acceptable accuracy?

 

[sandman7925]

From my experiece slugs out of a smooth bore aren't worth mentioning. Now out of a rifled bore using sabot slugs, Now thats impresive. Smooth bore should be buckshot only. Just my .02

 

[flamatrix99]

I'm sure LSP972 and dmiculek can shed some light on your questions.

 

[Guate_shooter]

Not sure on how accurate this is but here you go its a copy paste so dont hang me for it!

The one ounce slug, fired from a 2-3/4-inch Federal, Remington, or Winchester shell, has a one shot stopping success of 98%. A deer barrel with rifle sights is the appropriate platform for this round. It is not the best choice for self defense because aiming becomes the critical factor in effective shot placement. The high probability of scoring hits, an advantage associated with buckshot loads, is lost. Slugs also have ferocious recoil and tend to over penetrate.

Although birdshot is not as lethal as buckshot, even at close range, it may make sense for home or apartment defense where the opportunity exists to injure or kill innocent people behind thin walls in adjacent rooms. For defending a single family home, buffered by land, 00 buck is preferred. The choice for birdshot loads is BB or #4 birdshot. Out to a range of 30 feet or so, birdshot is essentially a solid column of lead pellets. Stopping power may not be sufficient, however, due lack of penetration potential.

At close range, birdshot can destroy a great deal of tissue, producing a gruesome wound. The depth of the injury, however, will likely be six inches or less. This is too shallow to reliably affect an assailant's heart or major cardiovascular blood vessels. Because the wound trauma produced by birdshot is not decisively effective, a quick stop to deadly violence is not guaranteed.

Buckshot loads, on the other hand, will exhibit penetration on the order of 12 inches or so, a depth sufficient to intersect vital blood distribution structures and terminate aggression.

Some misconceptions may exist regarding the spread of shotgun pellets or balls. It is not enough to merely point the shotgun in the general direction of an assailant and let fly. Birdshot or buckshot does not create a huge cone of death and destruction that devastates everything in its path. Rather, for a defense or "riot" shotgun with an 18- to 20-inch open choked "improved cylinder" barrel, the pellets will spread out about one inch for every yard of range traveled. Across a large room of 18 feet or so, the spread will only be about 6 inches, a circle as big as a coffee cup saucer. At 50 feet, the spread will only be about 16 inches, the size of a large pizza. It is obvious from this information that a shotgun blast will not incapacitate multiple assailants at close range.

The shotgun must be skillfully aimed and fired. Aiming is just not quite as precise as that required for a handgun or autoloader to score multiple hits on an aggressor. The massive firepower of the shotgun will likely produce a favorable outcome in any self defense encounter.

 

[Gus McCrae]

I'm thinking guys doing three gun are shooting barrels at 100 yards with smooth bore/slugs.

Close quarters???? I'd just stick with 00 buck. Slugs have ridiculous penetration. Even 00 buck at close ranges has some serious penetration, but if it won't penetrate walls, will it penetrate bad guys enough for appropriate damage. I can't see ever using bird shot for SD.

The one place I see slugs being useful is on a side saddle, keep a couple in case you need some penetration.

 

[Guate_shooter]

This is what they said about the Buckshot, again copy paste!

The 12 gauge shotgun is the most devastating and lethal weapon yet devised for inflicting rack and ruin at close range. A safe bet for ammunition selection is to use the 2-3/4-inch 00 buckshot load. The impact of one of these shot shells is essentially equivalent to getting hit with a nine round burst from a submachine gun.

It is probably a good idea to avoid the 2-3/4- and 3-inch "Magnum" loads. Their brutal kick makes them a bad choice, and little is gained over the stopping power of standard rounds. Controllability is important, and standard 12 gauge shotgun shells have plenty of kick already.

Some shooters prefer #4 or #1 buckshot over 00 buck. Real world one shot stopping success of the #4 buck is a respectable 81-83%. Data hasn't been collected for the #1 buck, but its performance should be even better.

 

[fastmover]

the answer is always OO buck.

if you have a rifled shotie, keep a couple slugs in case you have to hit out to 75 yrd or shoot through a car door.


keep in mind shooting somebody at 75 yrd is prolly not self defense, it's just shooting somebody.

 

[Gus McCrae]

the answer is always OO buck.

Yep. Apparently, it's hard to beat.

 

[nickatnite]

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[CloudStrife]

This is what they said about the Buckshot, again copy paste!

The 12 gauge shotgun is the most devastating and lethal weapon yet devised for inflicting rack and ruin at close range. A safe bet for ammunition selection is to use the 2-3/4-inch 00 buckshot load. The impact of one of these shot shells is essentially equivalent to getting hit with a nine round burst from a submachine gun.

It is probably a good idea to avoid the 2-3/4- and 3-inch "Magnum" loads. Their brutal kick makes them a bad choice, and little is gained over the stopping power of standard rounds. Controllability is important, and standard 12 gauge shotgun shells have plenty of kick already.

Some shooters prefer #4 or #1 buckshot over 00 buck. Real world one shot stopping success of the #4 buck is a respectable 81-83%. Data hasn't been collected for the #1 buck, but its performance should be even better.

Are the standard shells referenced the same as reduced recoil?

 

[CUJOHUNTER]

I don't ever use 3"magnums. What's the difference between 0BK and 00BK?
For home defense,I've always trusted my Mossberg 500A. Simple,effective and durable. The only option I have in it is a side saddle for extra shells...that's it.

 

[Guate_shooter]

One is .32"nominal diameter and has 9 pellets/oz, the other one is .33" and has 8

 

[Guate_shooter]

Left to Right:
7 1/2---4BK---1BK---0BK---00BK---000BK---Slug

 

[CUJOHUNTER]

One is .32"nominal diameter and has 9 pellets/oz, the other one is .33" and has 8

Effectiveness? Why is the OObk more poular than the 0bk? Most LE agancies use 00bk from what I know.

 

[Akajun]

My 870 police with rifle sights and a smooth improved cylinder bore will shoot federal low recoil slugs at 75 yds into a 5 inch circle. I have not shot it any further.

 

[senseiturtle]

Birdshot = Too much surface area, too little penetration. Shallow, bloody, but not deadly.

Slugs = Too little surface area, way too much penetration. Most of the round's energy is lost to whatever's behind the target, instead of getting dumped into the target.

Sabots = See slugs... just not as bad due to expansion in the target.

Buckshot = Enough size to penetrate, great energy deliverance. The ideal.

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The difference between the slug and the rifle rounds mentioned is that the slugs are about 1/2 - 1/3 the speed of the round, but 6-8 times the lead. Same amount of energy, per se, but much more momentum. Those rifles are dumping energy onto the target, while the slug sails through.

If overpenetration's not an issue, slugs will do just fine, it's just that they have much more recoil than shot.

 

[Red Ryder]

Slugs are a tool with specific, impressive results, but they are not a substitute for a rifle.

 

[LACamper]

Slugs = Too little surface area, way too much penetration. Most of the round's energy is lost to whatever's behind the target, instead of getting dumped into the target.

QUOTE]

Too little surface area? Compared to what? A 12 ga slug is more than 1/2" in diameter! Compared to a Lahti, or .577 T-rex? maybe. Compared to a .223 or 7.62 x 39? ha! Oh, and as far as the energy getting dumped into the wall behind the target (which is something I've pointed out in several discussions myself on rifle power) lets not forget the probably 3" exit wound and blood loss.

Question: Not that this is a frequent occurnace, but what if the perp is wearing a 2nd chance type vest? How would shotguns compare to .223?