UPDATE: Cannizarro Refuses to Charge; A friend was involved in a shooting

[SpeedRacer]

armed with burglary tools and in the dwelling?

-or-

i bet its one of those two. probably the latter.

So a detached garage is legally considered a dwelling? I don't think so. And what does "premises" mean? Premises of the dwelling?

I do find the line about deadly force to compel the intruder to leave the premises almost comical. Compel them to leave by killing them, makes sense. Those crazy lawmakers and their silly antics.

I may actually have a copy of the report and something from the DA on my old computer, I'll try to dig it up.


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[Leonidas]

Its gonna be a great day. Even better than the Spanish train wreck. They're gonna write songs about this thread.

 

[Cat]

I already do, I go by "Carlos Danger"

I laughed. And then I cringed. Please keep little Carlos zipped.

 

[Bayoupiper]

LOL. ill admit I was wrong on the home invasion lady (so was several other cops), Will you admit you dont know about deadly force?


Will you admit other than an administrator of this site thats taken tactical training classes on how to shoot you have absolutely no experience in the application of law or police policy or procedure? Or do you stick to 'good shoot' based on two stories you heard?

I only mention i used to be a cop because thats where I base my OPINION and EXPERIENCE on.

But, lets play?

I still dont see Vanilla Gorilla, Motors51, Alpine, BayouPiper, Et Al, claiming im wrong, or that the shoot is good.


here IS my POINT

You should throw in some tactical shooting class experience on top of a questionable shooting and lets see how that works. MMA half-ass training caused problems for zimmerman. Its to bad he didnt have a couple hundred hours of shooting under his belt hunh?

THAT IS SOMETHING TO THINK ABOUT.


The whole "I'm better than y'all" thing is getting old. Two shitty examples of half ass burglar shooting years ago makes you a legal expert? Tactical Ninja please
Right now the only expert advice you can give is on being an administrator here, running the Advantage Group website and stippling some guns.

No, I don't think you are wrong and I don't think it was a good shoot.


But let me toss in a few other things for everyone to think about.

When any person, be it cop or home owner gets into a potential shooting situation they all have similar reactions.
Weak knees, rapid breathing, tunnel vision, all sorts of physical changes occurring.
The "fight or flight" type of feeling if you will.
And fear is a natural response to this.
Just pointing a weapon at a person can amplify this is some people.
It is far different than pointing a weapon at steel and paper.
Cops are taught how to handle this and diminish it.

This guy was most probably very scared himself so any movement by the kid would only amplify that.

I'm not saying any of this to justify what the home owner did, but rather to offer a suggestion of what his mental state may have been at the time.



.

 

[mcinfantry]

No, I don't think you are wrong and I don't think it was a good shoot.


But let me toss in a few other things for everyone to think about.

When any person, be it cop or home owner gets into a potential shooting situation they all have similar reactions.
Weak knees, rapid breathing, tunnel vision, all sorts of physical changes occurring.
The "fight or flight" type of feeling if you will.
And fear is a natural response to this.
Just pointing a weapon at a person can amplify this is some people.
It is far different than pointing a weapon at steel and paper.
Cops are taught how to handle this and diminish it.

This guy was most probably very scared himself so any movement by the kid would only amplify that.

I'm not saying any of this to justify what the home owner did, but rather to offer a suggestion of what his mental state may have been at the time.



.

good point and insight, i didnt think about.

 

[Vermiform]

i agree. I had hoped people would realize to call cops, when they see something suspicious. which is what zimmerman did, he just interjected himself too much in my opinion.

So this guy should have stayed in his house, NOT gone out into his driveway and NOT confronted the criminal that hopped his locked gate and was breaking into his car?

 

[Vanilla Gorilla]

I don't think you will find a single example where in any citizen having attended firearms training hurt them in court. None. Not one. The simple fact is that several hundred people who have recovered training were alive to have a day in court. A lot of them attribute that to their training. Saying I chose not to be adequately trained in the use of a tool I rely in as a means of self defense because I'm worried about a jury using that against me is silly.

 

[Hitman]

No, I don't think you are wrong and I don't think it was a good shoot.


But let me toss in a few other things for everyone to think about.

When any person, be it cop or home owner gets into a potential shooting situation they all have similar reactions.
Weak knees, rapid breathing, tunnel vision, all sorts of physical changes occurring.
The "fight or flight" type of feeling if you will.
And fear is a natural response to this.
Just pointing a weapon at a person can amplify this is some people.
It is far different than pointing a weapon at steel and paper.
Cops are taught how to handle this and diminish it.

This guy was most probably very scared himself so any movement by the kid would only amplify that.

I'm not saying any of this to justify what the home owner did, but rather to offer a suggestion of what his mental state may have been at the time.



.

to also add to a very good post. The article said 'early Friday',
sometimes they include that to mean anytime between 0000 to 0500.

So it could be possible that it was also 'DARK/Low Light' which always raises the anxiety just a tad for everyone,
plus impeding vision as well.

 

[Neil09]

to also add to a very good post. The article said 'early Friday',
sometimes they include that to mean anytime between 0000 to 0500.

So it could be possible that it was also 'DARK/Low Light' which always raises the anxiety just a tad for everyone,
plus impeding vision as well.

I believe it was said around 1:30am? Maybe I dreamt it.

 

[Vermiform]

I believe it was said around 1:30am? Maybe I dreamt it.

I can't find it either, but i could have swore somewhere it said 0100.

 

[oleheat]

Does anyone remember the circumstances from a case in South BR YEARS ago when a deputy came outside and found his car being broken into? I seem to remember the thief/thieves ending up on the wrong end of a couple of shotgun blasts (pretty sure they survived). I do remember the incident being recorded (he was on the phone, I believe).

IIRC, it happened in the Jones Creek area. Sorry, but I can't remember any more details than that. Other than me saying "kudos to him".

This would have been around 1999/2000, I believe.....

 

[mcinfantry]

yes, it was BRPD cop outside his jurisdiction. they were breaking in his car and he racked the gun and when he opened the door the car burglar was ARMED.

we were all taught that in the academy

 

[mcinfantry]

I don't think you will find a single example where in any citizen having attended firearms training hurt them in court. None. Not one. The simple fact is that several hundred people who have recovered training were alive to have a day in court. A lot of them attribute that to their training. Saying I chose not to be adequately trained in the use of a tool I rely in as a means of self defense because I'm worried about a jury using that against me is silly.

thats NOT what i said.

 

[oleheat]

yes, it was BRPD cop outside his jurisdiction. they were breaking in his car and he racked the gun and when he opened the door the car burglar was ARMED.

we were all taught that in the academy

Thanks, man...I couldn't remember the details of it.

 

[SpeedRacer]

The shooting being discussed took place at 2:30AM.

yes, it was BRPD cop outside his jurisdiction. they were breaking in his car and he racked the gun and when he opened the door the car burglar was ARMED.

we were all taught that in the academy

So you should wait until you see a gun or knife pointed at you to verify that the criminal has a weapon? There's still some room for error there, perhaps wait until they fire a shot or get a stab or two in to be really, really sure?

There's many stories where law enforcement officers have shot suspects that they believed to be armed that were later found out not to be. Could have been a cell phone, sudden movement, whatever. Fact is they don't wait around to find out for sure. And virtually every time it can be attributed to the suspect playing stupid games and winning stupid prizes. Could very well be the same deal here. 2:30AM, you are woken in the middle of the night, you're groggy, your adrenal is pumping, you walk outside to see what's going on (you can't assume he could see from inside), and there's a guy that has climbed your gate and is attempting to break into your car. What do you do then? Throw the gun down and call the police? Call NOPD before you go outside and tell them your dog is barking? How fast do you think they would show up for that? Or do you point your gun at them, give them commands to get them under control and then call police? What if they don't comply and make a movement leading you to believe they have a weapon?


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[Jack]

I can't find it either, but i could have swore somewhere it said 0100.

I think it says when he hopped the fence when talking about the neighbors video.

 

[mcinfantry]

The shooting being discussed took place at 2:30AM.




So you should wait until you see a gun or knife pointed at you to verify that the criminal has a weapon? There's still some room for error there, perhaps wait until they fire a shot or get a stab or two in to be really, really sure?

There's many stories where law enforcement officers have shot suspects that they believed to be armed that were later found out not to be. Could have been a cell phone, sudden movement, whatever. Fact is they don't wait around to find out for sure. And virtually every time it can be attributed to the suspect playing stupid games and winning stupid prizes. Could very well be the same deal here. 2:30AM, you are woken in the middle of the night, you're groggy, your adrenal is pumping, you walk outside to see what's going on (you can't assume he could see from inside), and there's a guy that has climbed your gate and is attempting to break into your car. What do you do then? Throw the gun down and call the police? Call NOPD before you go outside and tell them your dog is barking? How fast do you think they would show up for that? Or do you point your gun at them, give them commands to get them under control and then call police? What if they don't comply and make a movement leading you to believe they have a weapon?


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ok. ill defer to your training and experience in armed encounters, i dont have any. i give.

 

[SpeedRacer]

ok. ill defer to your training and experience in armed encounters, i dont have any. i give.

What a cop out. Pun intended.


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[Emperor]

Ya know, considering the hoopla about killing criminals of late; if you all just wait a few more days we should have an answer to ALL of your theories.

 

[Vermiform]

Ya know, considering the hoopla about killing criminals of late; if you all just wait a few more days we should have an answer to ALL of your theories.

You mean AFTER the media really gets a hold of this?