What are your religious beliefs?

[JWG223]

That's one opinion but not really in-line with biblical teaching.
http://www.gotquestions.org/Saturday-Sunday.html

There is no one verse that says Sat./Sun.; not that it really matters what day anyway.

I would then ask, can we nullify the rest of the 10 commandments? After all, they were given to Israel, not gentiles. Or are we now to pick and choose among them which ones we are going to follow, only choosing of course the one's that are in line with current moralities and are convenient for us? What about the fact that when Christ came to earth, he stated "I am not to take away one jot or tittle from the law". There is indeed a verse that claims that the 7th day is the one for rest, it is right there with the other 9 commandments that people observe.

Reading further in your link, I discovered the one text (again, same as from our dietary debate) that does support worshiping whenever you think you should. However, it goes to state that you should be *fully convinced in your mind*. What that means is that you are following God to the BEST of your ability. It means that, assuming I am correct and Sabbath is Saturday, yet you worship on Sunday because you believe it is correct, (or it is Sunday, and I am wrong), that neither of us should burn in hell, because we did what we *knew* to be right in the eyes of God. It is simply saying that Christ will not judge us for our ignorance. Thankfully for Christians, this is a good thing, because if God is real, I highly doubt ANYONE is 100% spot-on in all their beliefs.

 

[Leonidas]

Hitman. A stumbling block in the way of my conversion was what I then considered the unfairness of God. How could one not exposed to the Gospel be justly condemned to destruction. That perceived injustice held me back for quite a while. Now, that passage actually holds special relevance for me.

 

[JWG223]

JWG: it was just tradition, not anything related to Biblical text. People started to worshiping on the day Jesus rose.

That is one theory. The other is that during the Rule of Constantine, there was a lot of strife between the Christians and the Pagans. To ease this, Sunday worship was carried over into Christian practice to ease the transition, since most places of work, etc. observed Sunday, it made being a Christian a lot harder if you worshiped Saturday. They didn't want that, so they conformed to the Pagan day of worship as a form of compromise (one of many with the Pagan faith) and found a parallel in the Bible. They could have just as easily said that Christ was put to rest on a Friday and thus we will rest Friday. But Friday wasn't going to help with anything.

 

[JWG223]

The Maker? Shai-Hulud? Anyway, it seems any thanks may be too late...

Toward the end of the series, he really kind of lost me. I read the whole thing back in high-school. First 3 books were great, then he began a hike off the deep end it seemed.

 

[Hitman]

I would then ask, can we nullify the rest of the 10 commandments? After all, they were given to Israel, not gentile.

No

Or are we now to pick and choose among them which ones we are going to follow, only choosing of course the one's that are in line with current moralities and are convenient for us?

No

The two commandments that Jesus gave cover the entire LAW(OT). If you obey the 2 that Jesus gave, you will also obey the 10 Commandments. For how can one love his neighbor as himself, yet rob, kill, lie to or covet him? How can one Love God with all their heart and mind yet not fellowship, worship together, pray and read Gods word? He cannot, therefore obeying what Jesus claimed as the greatest two is to obey the Law of Old as well.

Reading a lot of your post in the past and lately I think you would greatly benefit from further research in being under the Law vs being under Grace. I see a disconnect in your logic sometimes and it always seems to stem from this particular subject, Law or Grace.

 

[JWG223]

No



No

The two commandments that Jesus gave cover the entire LAW(OT). If you obey the 2 that Jesus gave, you will also obey the 10 Commandments. For how can one love his neighbor as himself, yet rob, kill, lie to or covet him? How can one Love God with all their heart and mind yet not fellowship, worship together, pray and read Gods word? He cannot, therefore obeying what Jesus claimed as the greatest two is to obey the Law of Old as well.

Reading a lot of your post in the past and lately I think you would greatly benefit from further research in being under the Law vs being under Grace. I see a disconnect in your logic sometimes and it always seems to stem from this particular subject, Law or Grace.

Probably due to my former beliefs as SDA. My former pastor STILL has not gotten back to me on your point about diet. When he does, I will point him to the other, and see what he says regarding that.

For now, you are using the "Law" to refer to both the 10 commandments, and the Laws of the Pharisees, which Christ DID come to abolish, at least as I see it.

 

[dfsutton]

No



No

The two commandments that Jesus gave cover the entire LAW(OT). If you obey the 2 that Jesus gave, you will also obey the 10 Commandments. For how can one love his neighbor as himself, yet rob, kill, lie to or covet him? How can one Love God with all their heart and mind yet not fellowship, worship together, pray and read Gods word? He cannot, therefore obeying what Jesus claimed as the greatest two is to obey the Law of Old as well.

Reading a lot of your post in the past and lately I think you would greatly benefit from further research in being under the Law vs being under Grace. I see a disconnect in your logic sometimes and it always seems to stem from this particular subject, Law or Grace.

You forgot your other 603 commandments.

 

[Takuan]

Toward the end of the series, he really kind of lost me. I read the whole thing back in high-school. First 3 books were great, then he began a hike off the deep end it seemed.

Yes, Herbert lost me, too... the first is among the best SF novels ever, though.

 

[Russo]

Jesus came to fulfill the law, btw... and our sins were imputed on him and his righteousness was imputed on us... that is how we are able to obtain salvation through Christ's sacrafice.. Ezekiel 18

 

[dfsutton]

Jesus came to fulfill the law, btw... and our sins were imputed on him and his righteousness was imputed on us... that is how we are able to obtain salvation through Christ's sacrafice.. Ezekiel 18

The Torah states that all mitzvot (commandments) remain binding forever (Deut. 4:2), and anyone coming to change the Torah is immediately identified as a false prophet. (Deut. 13:1-4)

 

[JWG223]

Yes, Herbert lost me, too... the first is among the best SF novels ever, though.

Strongly agree!
Did you ever try reading "Mission Earth" by Ron Hubbard? The first 2 books were pretty good, the 3rd was stretching it, the 4th, well, it must have involved HEAVY drug-use. I was pissed. It was something like a 10 book series and the books were all 5-600 pages or so, and I figured it would be a GREAT series to read because it would keep me busy for a while. Well, after half-way through book 4 I couldn't even track anymore with it.

 

[Takuan]

No, I've never read any of Hubbard's books... the Scientology thing puts me off.

 

[Russo]

The Torah states that all mitzvot (commandments) remain binding forever, and anyone coming to change the Torah is immediately identified as a false prophet. (Deut. 13:1-4)

Matthew 4:10 Jesus told him. “For the Scriptures say, ‘You must worship the Lord your God and serve only him.” this is taken from the scripture you quoted, as Christ knew this and used the law against Satan

 

[Hitman]

The Torah states that all mitzvot (commandments) remain binding forever, and anyone coming to change the Torah is immediately identified as a false prophet. (Deut. 13:1-4)

Jesus didn't change the Torah, He fulfilled it.

 

[dfsutton]

Jesus didn't change the Torah, He fulfilled it.

But Jesus does not fit the messianic prophecies.

What is the Messiah supposed to accomplish, you ask? The Tanakh says that he will:

A. Build the Third Temple (Ezekiel 37:26-28).

B. Gather all Jews back to the Land of Israel (Isaiah 43:5-6).

C. Usher in an era of world peace, and end all hatred, oppression, suffering and disease. As it says: "Nation shall not lift up sword against nation, neither shall man learn war anymore." (Isaiah 2:4)

D. Spread universal knowledge of the God of Israel, which will unite humanity as one. As it says: "God will be King over all the world—on that day, God will be One and His Name will be One" (Zechariah 14:9).

The historical fact is that Jesus fulfilled none of these messianic prophecies. So therefore, Jesus did not fulfill the mitzvot. Therefore they still stand. Need me to post the 603 you haven't been doing?

 

[JWG223]

If nothing else, Religion has provided me an excuse to debate, so it's not all bad

 

[Takuan]

So... exactly how many angels DO dance on the head of a pin?

 

[Russo]

he has built the third temple! infact, he came not just to get us to Heaven, but to get Heaven in us! we are the temple of the Holy Spirit, Corinthians 6:14-18.. no longer does God live in a building, he lives in us.. the rest is prophecy that will happen at the end of the Tribulation, when all of Israel will proclaim. "יבורך האדם מגיע בשם של אדון"

 

[Hitman]

The historical fact is that Jesus fulfilled none of these messianic prophecies.

Not True at all.
http://www.bprc.org/topics/fulfill.html

This is probably the last post I'll share back and forth with you b/c I know your playing the Devil's Advocate here and subscribe to no such belief anyway. Maybe someone else will play along with you.

 

[dfsutton]

he has built the third temple! infact, he came not just to get us to Heaven, but to get Heaven in us! we are the temple of the Holy Spirit, Corinthians 6:14-18.. no longer does God live in a building, he lives in us.. the rest is prophecy that will happen at the end of the Tribulation, when all of Israel will proclaim. "יבורך האדם מגיע בשם של אדון"

Sorry. Not correct.