What are your religious beliefs?

[Hitman]

Sorry. Not correct.

Woop that's it. Sutton has spoken, all bow

 

[JWG223]

Sorry. Not correct.

Woop that's it. Sutton has spoken, all bow

Whether correct or not, it ignores the whole "nations getting along" thing.

 

[Russo]

i suggest you study Genesis 41-45 to understand Jesus, since you write off the New Testament...

edit: add 2 Samuel as well

 

[dfsutton]

Not True at all.
http://www.bprc.org/topics/fulfill.html

This is probably the last post I'll share back and forth with you b/c I know your playing the Devil's Advocate here and subscribe to no such belief anyway. Maybe someone else will play along with you.

Once again, you know nothing of me. You just cannot argue against God's word.

By the way, to make thinks worse, Jesus did not embody the prophesied standards of the Messiah.

they are:

1. The Messiah must be a prophet. Jesus was not a prophet. Prophecy can only exist in Israel when the land is inhabited by a majority of world Jewry. During the time of Ezra (circa 300 BCE), when the majority of Jews refused to move from Babylon to Israel, prophecy ended upon the death of the last prophets—Haggai, Zechariah and Malachi. Jesus came 350 years after prophecy had ended.

2. The Messiah is not a demi-god. He is a mortal man. According to Jewish sources, the Messiah will be born of human parents and possess normal physical attributes like other people. He will not be a demi-god, nor will he possess supernatural qualities. This is supported by the fact that God cannot be born into a man. (Numbers 23:19).

3. The Messiah must be descended on his father’s side from King David (see Genesis 49:10 and Isaiah 11:1). According to the Christian claim that Jesus was the product of a virgin birth, he had no father—and thus could not have possibly fulfilled the messianic requirement of being descended on his father’s side from King David!

In response, it is claimed that Joseph adopted Jesus, and passed on his genealogy via adoption. There are two problems with this claim:

a) There is no Biblical basis for the idea of a father passing on his tribal line by adoption. A priest who adopts a son from another tribe cannot make him a priest by adoption;

b) Joseph could never pass on by adoption that which he doesn’t have. Because Joseph descended from Jeconiah (Matthew 1:11) he fell under the curse of that king that none of his descendants could ever sit as king upon the throne of David. (Jeremiah 22:30; 36:30)

4. The Messiah will lead the Jewish people to full Torah observance. The Torah states that all mitzvot (commandments) remain binding forever, and anyone coming to change the Torah is immediately identified as a false prophet. (Deut. 13:1-4)

Throughout the New Testament, Jesus contradicts the Torah and states that its commandments are no longer applicable. (see John 1:45 and 9:16, Acts 3:22 and 7:37) For example, John 9:14 records that Jesus made a paste in violation of Shabbat, which caused the Pharisees to say (verse 16), "He does not observe Shabbat!"

 

[Russo]

Once again, you know nothing of me. You just cannot argue against God's word.

on the contrary, i find that your first response to my statement was copied from this site http://www.simpletoremember.com/articles/a/jewsandjesus/ and the above response was taken directly from http://www.debate.org/debates/Jesus-was-NOT-the-Messiah/1/ nice try at trolling... NEXT!

 

[Hitman]

Once again, you know nothing of me.

I've known you since you joined the site and have read enough of your post to know enough about you.

The link I provided shows more than you obviously know about what prophecies were fulfilled. I know for sure you didn't read it b/c it's long and requires some attention.

 

[JWG223]

So...should we all make it a policy that site/group meets cannot happen within 2 weeks of any threads on religion?

 

[dfsutton]

on the contrary, i find that your first response to my statement was copied from this site http://www.simpletoremember.com/articles/a/jewsandjesus/ and the above response was taken directly from http://www.debate.org/debates/Jesus-was-NOT-the-Messiah/1/ nice try at trolling... NEXT!

Yes it was. And how does that invalidate the scripture?

 

[Hitman]

on the contrary, i find that your first response to my statement was copied from this site http://www.simpletoremember.com/articles/a/jewsandjesus/ and the above response was taken directly from http://www.debate.org/debates/Jesus-was-NOT-the-Messiah/1/ nice try at trolling... NEXT!

This is why I tried to bow out sveral post ago. It's like a Vacuum. We've played this game before he just doesn't remember.

With that I'm seriously OUT!

No way I'm getting dragged into this foolishness again.

 

[dfsutton]

This is why I tried to bow out sveral post ago. It's like a Vacuum. We've played this game before he just doesn't remember.

With that I'm seriously OUT!

No way I'm getting dragged into this foolishness again.

I guess when the odds are overwhelming, a retreat is the best tactical maneuver.

 

[JWG223]

Well, this made it way longer than I thought it would! Maybe there is a god

 

[BUSTER48]

JWG223,
I rarely ever say this but, you speak for me. I generally don’t get involved in discussions on God or religion because ultimately, my beliefs or lack thereof are mine not open to interpretation, derision or criticism. Thanks for having the balls to put it out there and taking the heat.

 

[Hitman]

I guess when the odds are overwhelming, a retreat is the best tactical maneuver.

Oh the Horror!

Coming from the guy who is refusing to read the link that list exactly what you say doesn't exist.

Cheers

Later

 

[JWG223]

JWG223,
I rarely ever say this but, you speak for me. I generally don’t get involved in discussions on God or religion because ultimately, my beliefs or lack thereof are mine not open to interpretation, derision or criticism. Thanks for having the balls to put it out there and taking the heat.

Thanks.

I am/have always been very open in my opinions, and quick to defend them. When/if I am proven wrong, then it is because someone is right and I am not, and I wish to be right. I learn something and adopt their view on the matter--as it is proven better than mine formerly was. If I am not proven wrong, I validate my beliefs again. Either way, whatever the debate, I get closer and closer to "the truth" of the matter, whatever it may be (whether it is terminal ballistics, or God).

Some people find this very abrasive/cannot stand it/get all worked up over it. I think they need to learn better self control. I have not yet had one interaction with anyone on this board that would cause me to do anything besides shake their hand when I met them and smile, were we to meet in person.

 

[Takuan]

So, is Hitman out? I mean really out?

 

[Hitman]

So, is Hitman out? I mean really out?

Screw you!

 

[dfsutton]

Not True at all.
http://www.bprc.org/topics/fulfill.html

This is probably the last post I'll share back and forth with you b/c I know your playing the Devil's Advocate here and subscribe to no such belief anyway. Maybe someone else will play along with you.

In response to your link:

Their first argument is incorrect. I've already shown that above. Joseph was prohibited from holding the throne. The lineage is bad.

Micah 5:2 in the new testament is mis-translated. In the Tanakh, their is nothing that says the Messiah is God or even hints at him being super-natural. Jews have always know the Messiah to be a king. Psalms is mis-tranlated as well apparently. The Lord is talking about David, not about the Messiah. This would support that the Messiah must be a descendant of the lineage of David. Proverbs 30:4 has been taken completely incorrectly out of context. If you read the 30:1 - 30:6, you see on Proverbs 30:5-30:6, "Every word of God is pure, A shield to those who take refuge in him. Do not add to His words, Lest he indict you and you be proved a Liar." Please come and read the actual translation of the entire section to understand what it really says.

This will take quite a while to go through and look up each Tanakh passage and read it. unfortunately, I cannot do this tonight as I have to wake up at 2 AM for a crew change. Hopefully this thread will stay open as I'm learning a lot as I refute these points that are supposedly made.

 

[dfsutton]

Okay, maybe a few more:

Isiah 9:6 says nothing about the names of the Messiah. Where the hell do they get this from?

I'm starting to think the New Testament version of the Tanakh might was well have been translated by 17 monkeys for as well as they did.

Jeremiah 23:6 is completely mis-translated as well. It is only speaking of God. What does that even have to do with a Messiah.

Not going to read Phillipians because it was made up as well.

and check out this section of the argument on your page"

"Jewish scholars have little doubt about the deity of the Messiah..." Please read above for the direct contradiction of that statement from scripture.

 

[Takuan]

Screw you!

 

[SpeedRacer]

Aren't there literally thousands of different versions and translations of the Bible? If you're micromanaging your beliefs down to the level of nit-picky arguing about which verse of which translation is "right", you're kind of missing the whole point. Look at the big picture, focus on the functional aspects and stop worrying about the stories.