LEO input please.....

[charlie12]

He's TC.

 

[charliepapa]

He's TC.

 

[Kraut]

I will also verbalize my lack of consent for the seizure loud enough that my recorder hears it along with the entire encounter. It will then be submitted as evidence in a civil rights violation suit.

Okay, as a Devil Dog myself, I have to give you general props in the preparedness category, but really? You carry a recorder on your person at all times for the occasional contact with police? I didn't know they'd started using tin foil to line the helmets.

 

[Hardballing]

Agreed, the story stinks. I see where you're coming from now, and we're on the same page. It's only kind of bothersome that we won't ever know all of the details-- but not such a bad thing, so we can kill this thread off for good.

If I cover the first lawsuit, and you win, will you cover the next one on my behalf?

With your penchant for knowing the odds and the rewards thereof, consider it done Compadre.

and again...

THE THREAD THAT WOULD NOT DIE !!!!!!!!!

Hey wait...I know...you can OC in your home naked in front of a plate glass window while watching porn on a big screen that is viewable from the street right? But would you then be naked? Technically speaking?

Peas, Love, and Sooooouuuullll (food) to all.

 

[sraacke]

You carry a recorder on your person at all times for the occasional contact with police?

Cops have body mics. Only fair we do too. IF we didn't have to worry about violations of our rights we wouldn't have to worry about recording what happens. It's not just voice recorders. I know of at least one LOCAL member with a micro video recorder. Smile, Officer, you are on camera.

 

[Vanilla Gorilla]

Wow thats retarded. I am not at all glad that your an ambassador for the 2nd Ammendment.

 

[Hardballing]

Wow thats retarded. I am not at all glad that your an ambassador for the 2nd Ammendment.

You have to start saying what you really think. Holding it all in will only hurt YOU.

 

[Vanilla Gorilla]

Some a-hole just shot the engine block out of my truck while I was riding in it. I am a little ill tempered. Apparently he was OCing a PKM....or two.

 

[Nolacopusmc]

Some a-hole just shot the engine block out of my truck while I was riding in it. I am a little ill tempered. Apparently he was OCing a PKM....or two.

LOL. Soooooo, would you say he presented an articulable threat?

 

[Vanilla Gorilla]

I would say so. Although we attempted to kinetically detain him it appeared we were unsuccessfully in all likelihood because we were hiding in a ditch.

 

[W1nds0rF0x]

blending in with the background scenery in a nice Hawaiian shirt. FWIW, that's my 2 cents.

Wait, what????

 

[Hitman]

As a cop I have not only the legal right but an obligation to make sure your not about to pull it out and start blasting people in the store. And yes breaking leather and pointing my gun at that person would be the prudent thing to do.

It is not the norm for anyone to walk around openly carrying a pistol in towns/cities these days.

So you'd draw your gun on someone who is doing something legal because in your opinion it's not normal for people to express their legal right?

Is it normal in your area that criminals are most often open carrying?

 

[Hardballing]

So you'd draw your gun on someone who is doing something legal because in your opinion it's not normal for people to express their legal right?

Is it normal in your area that criminals are most often open carrying?

You're assuming that the OP's description is accurate 100% and not just his perception of the stop.

Unfortunately my friend, the world is not as black and white as has been pretended during this thread. And often the LEO inhabits a world of gray where it is his JOB to determine the legality of an action.

Phrased another way, if the OP's description is even .01% not accurate, perhaps all this was was that the officer was holding his weapon, while another person was armed, and questioned him about his business. That IS the LEO's function, to question folks about their business, what they are doing in a particular place while performing a particular action, to determine if a law is being violated.

In this instance, none was, "incident" over, both parties went their seperate ways.

As an aside, but going to your last attempted point, John Cho was 100% legally OC'ing (VA is listed as a Gold Star on OpenCarry.org). Right up to the point he entered UVA and shot people. Since the OP says he was/is 19 years old, how much different does he look than say, Kleibold of Columbine HS, who could have been perceived as legally OC'ing (CO was formerly a Gold Star state on OpenCarry.org), right up to the moment they entered the campus with weapons and bombs.

A LEO, at THOSE moments, asking questions, might have been a good idea.

Just a thought. But don't let facts get in the way of a good rant. Party on.

 

[Jimmy Dean]

I do have to question the validity of the OP's (in the other forum) story. From what I have noticed, in personal experience and news and court reports, the Chief of Police is held by someone with some political knowledge, and they know better than to just let an officer walk when they have really screwed up. (But some will, under the presumption that b y punishing them, they are admitting fault, and thereby should be held liable for actions of the officer....damn politics)

but, I do not think that hte OP's story is 100%, or even 75% accurate...I would not be suprised if it were only 50% or less to be honest.

 

[flatswitch]

Phew, what a thread! Just spent the last two days going through it.

 

[Hitman]

You're assuming that the blah...blah...edited the rest out

I'm not assuming anything, and I'm not talking about the OP.

I'm asking RebelRay a question.

Originally Posted by rebelray84

As a cop I have not only the legal right but an obligation to make sure your not about to pull it out and start blasting people in the store. And yes breaking leather and pointing my gun at that person would be the prudent thing to do.

It is not the norm for anyone to walk around openly carrying a pistol in towns/cities these days.

My inquiry;
So you'd draw your gun on someone who is doing something legal because in your own opinion it's not normal to you?

Is it normal in your area that criminals are most often open carrying? What is it that would lead you to draw down on someone who has a sidearm on their hip properly holstered and on display?

 

[rebelray84]

Actually that ordinance was repealed. I also oc in amite on a pretty regular basis.

REALLY?Exactly where in Amite?I mean stores?The bank?Where?

 

[rebelray84]

I'm not assuming anything, and I'm not talking about the OP.

I'm asking RebelRay a question.




My inquiry;
So you'd draw your gun on someone who is doing something legal because in your own opinion it's not normal to you?

Is it normal in your area that criminals are most often open carrying?

What is it that would lead you to draw down on someone who has a sidearm on their hip properly holstered and on display?

Just because YOU may believe what your doing is perfectly normal doesn't mean everyone around you believes what your doing is normal.

No it is not but who knows what a criminal might do?

Reasonable suspicion.

 

[rebelray84]

Violating someone's constitutional and state rights can also be hazardous to your employment. Which do you value more, being a cop with a false sense of power, ar an American with true freedom? Drawing down on someone simply for oc is a true sign of cowardice. It is also illegal. So I will continue to obey the law, and oc. If laws are broken or civil rights violated, there will be repercussions. Don't get me wrong, I have no problem being approached by a LEO in an official capacity. I will be polite and cordial, you remain professional and polite, I have no problem discussing my intentions or legal carry with you. But that is as far as it goes. I already had an encounter with TPSO in hammond over this. They said I needed a permit, I explained I did not, one deputy made a call ( to his supervisor who informed him of the law)while I waited with another with my daughter. Once they learned I was legal we had a brief conversation.The encounter ended courteously and they behaved professionally. I went my way and they went theirs. They never drew down, or even broke leather. I guess they were mature enough to realize a guy oc'ing while shopping with a 4 year old isn't a crazed killer. Point being you simply cannot go around harassing or pointing guns at law abiding citizens ( your employer by the way) because you have a badge.

Ps. I don't want money, I want the law to be applied to everyone equally.

Ever scenario is different.According to your story you were shopping,didn't say where,with your 4 year old.No LEO would draw on you under that citcumstance.

TPSO?Then you weren't ecactly IN Hammond were you.If you were HPD would have responded.Where excatly were you?

BTW we seem to live in the same neck of the woods,would like to meet face to face and discuss this "cowardice business"? I'll leave the badge and gun at home.

 

[Hitman]

My inquiry;
So you'd draw your gun on someone who is doing something legal because in your own opinion it's not normal to you?

Is it normal in your area that criminals are most often open carrying? What is it that would lead you to draw down on someone who has a sidearm on their hip properly holstered and on display?

Just because YOU may believe what your doing is perfectly normal doesn't mean everyone around you believes what your doing is normal.

Reasonable suspicion.

It's not about what's normal for you though.

Somehow I think just b/c a KNOWN LEGAL RIGHT isn't normal to you, won't convince a jury that you had probably cause if it went that far. Your expected to know the law that you are sworn to protect so I don't think that justifies your actions.

Simply carrying a gun, is not probable cause, and could cost an officer a lot of trouble if he decides to pursue an interaction with the gun carrier.

However I've seen plenty of LEO's who will accomplish the same thing that you are saying you would do, but never violate the gun owner. Like simply talking to the Citizen, not drawing their gun on him.

In my opinion, if you draw your gun on a Law Abiding citizen, simply b/c you are uncomfortable with the freedoms we have in this state and think that some of these freedoms are abnormal, your begging for something to go wrong. If anyone in the state draws a firearm on anyone else, they have the legal right to defend themselves from that person. However as your pointing out here, LEO's can do it just b/c they don't feel comfortable? Is the guy instantly supposed to feel SAFE and SECURE b/c an LEO in Uniform has a weapon pointed at him? What if his natrual reaction to someone pointing a gun at him, is to draw and fire. Now what? Now the LEO might have caused a **** storm.

I'm really trying to understand your mentality for declaring that you have the RIGHT as you said, to draw your weapon on someone who is doing something legal.

That is all I'm trying to figure out.

For others reading, it's this statement I'm trying to figure out, and I'm wondering what other LEO's think about this too.

SEE BELOW

Originally Posted by rebelray84

As a cop I have not only the legal right but an obligation to make sure your not about to pull it out and start blasting people in the store. And yes breaking leather and pointing my gun at that person would be the prudent thing to do.

It is not the norm for anyone to walk around openly carrying a pistol in towns/cities these days.