Best close quarters shotgun

[stag0608]

Veper 12

 

[hotbiggun]

I agree with the 930 being reliable (plus you can ghost load that tenth round!) and also taking a class or two. Self defense with a shotgun is a different animal.
There’s a 930 somewhere in this pic…

Are those 500s?

 

[Magdump]

There are a couple of Maverick 88’s in there, but yes, some 500’s. Check those safeties

 

[jdindadell]

I prefer the remington 870 if going with a pistol grip style stock or any of the adapters that run an pistol grip. I put the large domed Wilson combat safety button on and find that i can easily de-activate the safety when placing my find on the trigger, the safety contacts the 1st part of my trigger finger by the knuckle and I can press it off. I prefer this over the tang safety of the mossberg 500 which requires reaching over the top of the gun, which is fine with a std stock but not optimum with a pistol grip. The maverick 88 which is very similar to a 500, although it has the safety mounted near the trigger which is impossible for me to reach with the trigger hand.

Better question is what will a HD shotgun do for you that a handgun will not? A pump gun will require 2 hands to run (unless you are Linda Hamilton) and be more difficult to maneuver through your house than a handgun. Mounting a light on a shotgun is doable but not as easy as a handgun. Accurate shot placement is king, and I would stake my worthless reputation on the fact that most will shoot a handgun more accurately than a shotgun. Reloads for HD are likely not needed, but a handgun will have a greater capacity and reloads are easier (not likely to carry a backup mag for your handgun in a HD scenario so that point may be moot) than a shotgun. And do you need a powerful shotgun for HD? if you are using mini shells or reduced power loads you may find something like 45acp or even 9mm is superior for the job at hand. A 45 acp pistol with a can sure seems like a better choice for HD...

 

[Bigchillin83]

just go with the 4 guage

 

[flamatrix99]

I prefer the remington 870 if going with a pistol grip style stock or any of the adapters that run an pistol grip. I put the large domed Wilson combat safety button on and find that i can easily de-activate the safety when placing my find on the trigger, the safety contacts the 1st part of my trigger finger by the knuckle and I can press it off. I prefer this over the tang safety of the mossberg 500 which requires reaching over the top of the gun, which is fine with a std stock but not optimum with a pistol grip. The maverick 88 which is very similar to a 500, although it has the safety mounted near the trigger which is impossible for me to reach with the trigger hand.

Better question is what will a HD shotgun do for you that a handgun will not? A pump gun will require 2 hands to run (unless you are Linda Hamilton) and be more difficult to maneuver through your house than a handgun. Mounting a light on a shotgun is doable but not as easy as a handgun. Accurate shot placement is king, and I would stake my worthless reputation on the fact that most will shoot a handgun more accurately than a shotgun. Reloads for HD are likely not needed, but a handgun will have a greater capacity and reloads are easier (not likely to carry a backup mag for your handgun in a HD scenario so that point may be moot) than a shotgun. And do you need a powerful shotgun for HD? if you are using mini shells or reduced power loads you may find something like 45acp or even 9mm is superior for the job at hand. A 45 acp pistol with a can sure seems like a better choice for HD...

The advantage of a shotgun is reduced chance of over penetration and putting a round in a neighbors house.

 

[AdvancedLaser]

The advantage of a shotgun is reduced chance of over penetration and putting a round in a neighbors house.

You should research some ballistics before saying this so the uninformed read it and believe it.

12g 00Buck will enter 12 inches of 10% ballistic gel, exit it, enter a sheetrock wall, exit it, enter the second sheetrock wall and exit it.

9mm hollowpoint expanding projectile will enter the 12" of gel, exit and enter the sheetrock, then not exit.

Of course there are a lot of variables but in general the 9mm will not penetrate human tissue and then sheetrock like 12g 00buck will. It will travel and exit more than the 9mm will.

Using #4 or birdshot will change this ratio the other way, and 9mm ball rounds will penetrate significantly more than expanding hollow points.

 

[flamatrix99]

Veper 12

I have a VEPR 12 but damn that thing is heavy as hell (10 lbs). I put the Carolina Shooters muzzle break on it. I'm sure that adds some weight.

 

[Bigchillin83]

to me #4 buck is one of the best for self defense.. idk why its so hard to get lol.. federal used to make flight control #4 buck. that stuff was the jam

 

[Bigchillin83]

I have a VEPR 12 but damn that thing is heavy as hell (10 lbs). I put the Carolina Shooters muzzle break on it. I'm sure that adds some weight.

that screams, "MAKE ME A SHORT BARREL SHOTGUN" lol

 

[flamatrix99]

You should research some ballistics before saying this so the uninformed read it and believe it.

12g 00Buck will enter 12 inches of 10% ballistic gel, exit it, enter a sheetrock wall, exit it, enter the second sheetrock wall and exit it.

9mm hollowpoint expanding projectile will enter the 12" of gel, exit and enter the sheetrock, then not exit.

Of course there are a lot of variables but in general the 9mm will not penetrate human tissue and then sheetrock like 12g 00buck will. It will travel and exit more than the 9mm will.

Using #4 or birdshot will change this ratio the other way, and 9mm ball rounds will penetrate significantly more than expanding hollow points.

Where is your reference for these numbers? Not saying your are wrong just curious to read it.

 

[AdvancedLaser]

Where is your reference for these numbers? Not saying your are wrong just curious to read it.

We used to shoot ballistic gel for clients at a previous job, I have been to numerous Hornady gel shoots (Going to another on the 24th in NOLA) , and here is a quick one...
Not scientific and not real gel, but gives some good data points.

https://www.pewpewtactical.com/home-defense-overpenetration/

 

[AdvancedLaser]

I have a VEPR 12 but damn that thing is heavy as hell (10 lbs). I put the Carolina Shooters muzzle break on it. I'm sure that adds some weight.

Please cut that barrel down ! It would be so much cooler

(And I literally mean this in the Form1 SBR type suggestion, for the Fed's reading, and so I can make $$$ from you doing it)

 

[flamatrix99]

Please cut that barrel down ! It would be so much cooler

(And I literally mean this in the Form1 SBR type suggestion, for the Fed's reading, and so I can make $$$ from you doing it)

I can't imagine how much louder!

 

[hotbiggun]

Scroll down to the shotgun test

https://www.theboxotruth.com/threads/the-box-o-truth-14-rifles-shotguns-and-walls.310/

 

[AdvancedLaser]

Scroll down to the shotgun test

https://www.theboxotruth.com/threads/the-box-o-truth-14-rifles-shotguns-and-walls.310/

Birdshot for the win....Not the best round for permanent wound cavities though.

 

[flamatrix99]

Please cut that barrel down ! It would be so much cooler

(And I literally mean this in the Form1 SBR type suggestion, for the Fed's reading, and so I can make $$$ from you doing it)

Ok you guys were right. The SBS version is way cooler!

 

[hotbiggun]

Birdshot for the win....Not the best round for permanent wound cavities though.

A blast to the face would be nasty but yeah buckshot is the way to go.

 

[Magdump]

The advantage of a shotgun is reduced chance of over penetration and putting a round in a neighbors house.

Well, yeah, I guess that too…
I think energy per shot. I think wound channel. I think about all the things that make a shotgun more lethal than a pistol within the range of my home, which would likely be a max of 30 feet or so, which is the longest line of sight I have in my home. Even the hottest 9mm defensive loads average in the 400’s range of foot pounds (I think Cor-Bon .40 S&W is right at 500), while you need extra digits and a comma to state the muzzle energy of even a 20ga. Buckshot loads in the 12ga measure well over 1,000 ft lbs for the lowest velocity/lowest recoil rounds. Hunting buckshot loads at in home ranges can deliver 1,300 to 1,700 and beyond for the 20ga and upwards of 3,000 foot pounds in the 12ga for some loads.
What all that translates to is one shot stop potential. Immediate incapacitation of the threat.
Paper and ink and numbers are one thing, but I like real world results. Those are also readily available, but not in the same scientific context. I remember a home invasion shooting with a AR15 where the defender shot 3 rounds through the torso of the attacker, who was able to run down the street before falling and dying. I’ve seen shotgun blasts that ended the target immediately. Wherever the shot hit basically obliterated all the tissue in a defined area, whether organ, muscle or bone.
A load of buckshot to the torso, center mass, is far more likely to damage or even sever the spinal cord and drop the assailant like a sack of potatoes. Head shot with a 9mm will usually end the threat, but I’ve seen quite a few survivors of head shots with pistol rounds. Shotgun at close range pretty much evacuates the skull of its contents. Sack of potatoes. In the late ‘80’s I was assisting a trauma surgeon with a GSW to the chest of unknown but moderate caliber, likely 9mm. The one thing that I remember from the conversation was the very slim survival rate of a shotgun blast. In his words, even if they make it to him, there’s generally not much to work with.
The primary advantage of a shotgun for home defense is immediately stopping the threat.

 

[John_]

You should research some ballistics before saying this so the uninformed read it and believe it.

12g 00Buck will enter 12 inches of 10% ballistic gel, exit it, enter a sheetrock wall, exit it, enter the second sheetrock wall and exit it.

9mm hollowpoint expanding projectile will enter the 12" of gel, exit and enter the sheetrock, then not exit.

Of course there are a lot of variables but in general the 9mm will not penetrate human tissue and then sheetrock like 12g 00buck will. It will travel and exit more than the 9mm will.

Using #4 or birdshot will change this ratio the other way, and 9mm ball rounds will penetrate significantly more than expanding hollow points.

Absolutely, Kurt. So many ill informed here on BS. 12g 00 buck is nine .30 cal pellets flying at 1300 fps, a massive amount of collective energy! Why Magdump can shoot thru interior walls at an intruder, LOL. The only thing worse would be 12g slugs, 1 oz, and even more penetration than 00 buck. Not a man alive on earth that can take a 12g slug to the chest @ close range and keep on fighting. You can stop a bear cold with well placed 12g slugs.

Hey @Magdump, I have been wondering ever since you made that statement a few days ago about shooting thru walls in your house (don't be afraid of follow up shots thru the wall at an intruder) with your 12 gauge, do you teach this to your teen age son? I know you have a teen son and I'm sure you teach him tactics for home security and an intruder. Protect the home fort and his mother when you are away working nights. Serious question.