Came across this "What Is the Best Weapon for Home Defense?"

[Yrdawg]

With improper training, what will you come to learn?

If only trainers could truthfully name their courses "Proper Training"!

Cases in point:
My son's Hunter Ed class. We're still laughing about that one! Dang! I'm laughing now!!! LOL
My initial CHP class. What a JOKE! Oh man, my sides hurt! LOL

Really, it's no laughing matter to the ones that were "mis-informed".

If we'd have not known better, we would have thought we received "proper training". Who knows what the our classmates thought...and DID with the "knowledge" they acquired???

Of course, that's my opinion. YMMV, depending on your definition of "proper training".

My first CHP class was in 1999, it was so sorry I didn't even apply for my license. Then went to another class and sent paper work off.

 

[JWG223]

My first CHP class was in 1999, it was so sorry I didn't even apply for my license. Then went to another class and sent paper work off.

From what I understand, all CHP classes are a joke. It's incumbent upon YOU to make sure you can properly handle a firearm and make critical decisions in its usage. At least, every CHP class I ever heard discussed, as well as the one I attended, were a mix of good ideas, and horrible ideas, and down-right inaccurate information as well as some accurate information. Cops teach those classes. Not lawyers, and not forensics/ballistics experts.

In my class the advice of using Birdshot for a home-defense shotgun was given, we only fired about 30 rounds or so down-range, and a guy going through DT's made it all the way through the class until he became a hazard on the range and was unsafe with his firearm.

 

[OneStory]

Brannon runs a first rate CHP class. Well worth the time and money, IMO.

 

[Dennis]

I quess with everything that has been sayed and there are many many good points that were brought up.Its what gives you peace of mind in Home defense that works the best.

 

[JWG223]

I quess with everything that has been sayed and there are many many good points that were brought up.Its what gives you peace of mind in Home defense that works the best.

I agree, unless you find comfort in a single-action .22 revolver like our security guard at work.

 

[Sin-ster]

I quess with everything that has been sayed and there are many many good points that were brought up.Its what gives you peace of mind in Home defense that works the best.

Not to unduly pick on you, but that's just ridiculous.

A 4'2" woman that weighs 70 pounds with toothpicks for wrists and the hands of a 5 year old may feel comfortable as all get out with a .50 AE Desert Eagle, despite never having shot the gun in her life. It is probably at the same time the single worst choice for the task at hand.

Or, using another analogy, I might feel extremely comfortable in a tiny little convertible, doing 100 MPH on the Interstate, with no seat belt-- until some soccer mom on her phone changes lanes in front of me without looking in her mirrors.

There's a lot to be said for shooter familiarity with a platform, and their level of confidence in how they perform with said weapon. But in *all* things, and perhaps firearms proficiency more than any other, people are going to be prone to errors in judgement and false senses of security. Frankly, I think FAR too many people are toting/relying upon the wrong weapon these days. (I base that on lots of time spent at the public range and gunshop, and the things I hear and see there.)

An example:

Joe Somebody has his CCW and carries a G19 every day. He has performed his due diligence-- running several hundred rounds of his Speer GD to ensure function, keeping the gun clean and lubricated, and even replacing the trigger spring on a regular and conservative schedule. He gets out to the range twice a month and puts roughly 200 rounds down range per session; he punches great slowfire groups. In his mind, he's got the right piece of gear and the right amount of practice.

One night, Joe takes his lady friend out to the movies. On their way back to the car after the flick, they are approached by a man who on the surface seems to just want to ask for some change. Let's give Joe the benefit of the doubt and say that his situational awareness is pretty good-- he spots the guy, goes on alert, and puts himself between the stranger and his girl. The guy does ask for change, but Joe's still a bit leery; being a nice guy, he lets the dude down easy as he reaches for the keys to unlock his car. "I said, give me the money before I kill you and take it!" the stranger insists, now indicating a hand hidden in his sweatshirt as if to suggest the presence of a weapon. Joe is legitimately scared for his safety, and that of his lady friend. He begins his drawstroke.

In response, the thug lunges at Joe and they grapple for a moment over the G19. In the scuffle, a shot goes off into the concrete-- startling the would-be robber just long enough for Joe to break free. In that second, he raises his weapon as the thug now reveals a pistol of his own. Joe begins to press the trigger, only to find it dead-- the gun has not cycled after firing, thanks to the grappling. Joe pauses for just a second, then instinctively moves to work the slide-- but an instant to late. He finds himself at the receiving end of 3 quick shots from the mugger's little Lorcin. Game over.

Joe had always heard the phrase "tap-rack-bang", but never thought to practice it. (He has also been frozen on the 'X', but that's another matter entirely for the sake of our example...) All of his forum reading and time at the range has been for naught, the minute his pistol suffered a simple malfunction. Now what would have happened had Joe been carrying a revolver instead? In his own mind, he was more than experienced enough for the semi-auto; it was in fact the pistol with which he was the most comfortable. And that lack of judgement (which we can't really hold against him, because he didn't have the right knowledge base to make an informed decision) has cost him dearly.

Now, this is a fairly extreme (albeit not terribly unlikely) scenario, based totally in the realm of my head. But using other guns in our example, we could substitute poor accuracy (because Joe's chosen pistol was not as easy to shoot under stress as he thought), rotten speed (because that slimline .45 nearly jumped out of his hands under duress), or insufficient effect on target (because that .380-spitting mouse gun didn't do much through the thug's layers of heavy clothing) for the malfunction, and end up with the same result.

So, the point:

There will always be one right tool (or at least a narrow selection of tools) for any given job. Yes, there will be a lot of options, and yes, the particular shooter should make their decisions based on what (within the parameters of "sufficient") works best for them. The hard part will be being honest with oneself, and determining what actually WILL be the best option.

Because "whatever Joe is most comfortable with" will often translate into "what Joe enjoys punching paper with the most at the range". And poor Joe may not live to learn the error of his ways.

 

[pntbllr228]

Not to unduly pick on you, but that's just ridiculous.

A 4'2" woman that weighs 70 pounds with toothpicks for wrists and the hands of a 5 year old may feel comfortable as all get out with a .50 AE Desert Eagle, despite never having shot the gun in her life. It is probably at the same time the single worst choice for the task at hand.

Or, using another analogy, I might feel extremely comfortable in a tiny little convertible, doing 100 MPH on the Interstate, with no seat belt-- until some soccer mom on her phone changes lanes in front of me without looking in her mirrors.

There's a lot to be said for shooter familiarity with a platform, and their level of confidence in how they perform with said weapon. But in *all* things, and perhaps firearms proficiency more than any other, people are going to be prone to errors in judgement and false senses of security. Frankly, I think FAR too many people are toting/relying upon the wrong weapon these days. (I base that on lots of time spent at the public range and gunshop, and the things I hear and see there.)

An example:

Joe Somebody has his CCW and carries a G19 every day. He has performed his due diligence-- running several hundred rounds of his Speer GD to ensure function, keeping the gun clean and lubricated, and even replacing the trigger spring on a regular and conservative schedule. He gets out to the range twice a month and puts roughly 200 rounds down range per session; he punches great slowfire groups. In his mind, he's got the right piece of gear and the right amount of practice.

One night, Joe takes his lady friend out to the movies. On their way back to the car after the flick, they are approached by a man who on the surface seems to just want to ask for some change. Let's give Joe the benefit of the doubt and say that his situational awareness is pretty good-- he spots the guy, goes on alert, and puts himself between the stranger and his girl. The guy does ask for change, but Joe's still a bit leery; being a nice guy, he lets the dude down easy as he reaches for the keys to unlock his car. "I said, give me the money before I kill you and take it!" the stranger insists, now indicating a hand hidden in his sweatshirt as if to suggest the presence of a weapon. Joe is legitimately scared for his safety, and that of his lady friend. He begins his drawstroke.

In response, the thug lunges at Joe and they grapple for a moment over the G19. In the scuffle, a shot goes off into the concrete-- startling the would-be robber just long enough for Joe to break free. In that second, he raises his weapon as the thug now reveals a pistol of his own. Joe begins to press the trigger, only to find it dead-- the gun has not cycled after firing, thanks to the grappling. Joe pauses for just a second, then instinctively moves to work the slide-- but an instant to late. He finds himself at the receiving end of 3 quick shots from the mugger's little Lorcin. Game over.

Joe had always heard the phrase "tap-rack-bang", but never thought to practice it. (He has also been frozen on the 'X', but that's another matter entirely for the sake of our example...) All of his forum reading and time at the range has been for naught, the minute his pistol suffered a simple malfunction. Now what would have happened had Joe been carrying a revolver instead? In his own mind, he was more than experienced enough for the semi-auto; it was in fact the pistol with which he was the most comfortable. And that lack of judgement (which we can't really hold against him, because he didn't have the right knowledge base to make an informed decision) has cost him dearly.

Now, this is a fairly extreme (albeit not terribly unlikely) scenario, based totally in the realm of my head. But using other guns in our example, we could substitute poor accuracy (because Joe's chosen pistol was not as easy to shoot under stress as he thought), rotten speed (because that slimline .45 nearly jumped out of his hands under duress), or insufficient effect on target (because that .380-spitting mouse gun didn't do much through the thug's layers of heavy clothing) for the malfunction, and end up with the same result.

So, the point:

There will always be one right tool (or at least a narrow selection of tools) for any given job. Yes, there will be a lot of options, and yes, the particular shooter should make their decisions based on what (within the parameters of "sufficient") works best for them. The hard part will be being honest with oneself, and determining what actually WILL be the best option.

Because "whatever Joe is most comfortable with" will often translate into "what Joe enjoys punching paper with the most at the range". And poor Joe may not live to learn the error of his ways.

Great post. Seriously.

 

[Nomad.2nd]

Not to unduly pick on you, but that's just ridiculous.

A 4'2" woman that weighs 70 pounds with toothpicks for wrists and the hands of a 5 year old may feel comfortable as all get out with a .50 AE Desert Eagle, despite never having shot the gun in her life. It is probably at the same time the single worst choice for the task at hand.

Or, using another analogy, I might feel extremely comfortable in a tiny little convertible, doing 100 MPH on the Interstate, with no seat belt-- until some soccer mom on her phone changes lanes in front of me without looking in her mirrors.

There's a lot to be said for shooter familiarity with a platform, and their level of confidence in how they perform with said weapon. But in *all* things, and perhaps firearms proficiency more than any other, people are going to be prone to errors in judgement and false senses of security. Frankly, I think FAR too many people are toting/relying upon the wrong weapon these days. (I base that on lots of time spent at the public range and gunshop, and the things I hear and see there.)

An example:

Joe Somebody has his CCW and carries a G19 every day. He has performed his due diligence-- running several hundred rounds of his Speer GD to ensure function, keeping the gun clean and lubricated, and even replacing the trigger spring on a regular and conservative schedule. He gets out to the range twice a month and puts roughly 200 rounds down range per session; he punches great slowfire groups. In his mind, he's got the right piece of gear and the right amount of practice.

One night, Joe takes his lady friend out to the movies. On their way back to the car after the flick, they are approached by a man who on the surface seems to just want to ask for some change. Let's give Joe the benefit of the doubt and say that his situational awareness is pretty good-- he spots the guy, goes on alert, and puts himself between the stranger and his girl. The guy does ask for change, but Joe's still a bit leery; being a nice guy, he lets the dude down easy as he reaches for the keys to unlock his car. "I said, give me the money before I kill you and take it!" the stranger insists, now indicating a hand hidden in his sweatshirt as if to suggest the presence of a weapon. Joe is legitimately scared for his safety, and that of his lady friend. He begins his drawstroke.

In response, the thug lunges at Joe and they grapple for a moment over the G19. In the scuffle, a shot goes off into the concrete-- startling the would-be robber just long enough for Joe to break free. In that second, he raises his weapon as the thug now reveals a pistol of his own. Joe begins to press the trigger, only to find it dead-- the gun has not cycled after firing, thanks to the grappling. Joe pauses for just a second, then instinctively moves to work the slide-- but an instant to late. He finds himself at the receiving end of 3 quick shots from the mugger's little Lorcin. Game over.

Joe had always heard the phrase "tap-rack-bang", but never thought to practice it. (He has also been frozen on the 'X', but that's another matter entirely for the sake of our example...) All of his forum reading and time at the range has been for naught, the minute his pistol suffered a simple malfunction. Now what would have happened had Joe been carrying a revolver instead? In his own mind, he was more than experienced enough for the semi-auto; it was in fact the pistol with which he was the most comfortable. And that lack of judgement (which we can't really hold against him, because he didn't have the right knowledge base to make an informed decision) has cost him dearly.

Now, this is a fairly extreme (albeit not terribly unlikely) scenario, based totally in the realm of my head. But using other guns in our example, we could substitute poor accuracy (because Joe's chosen pistol was not as easy to shoot under stress as he thought), rotten speed (because that slimline .45 nearly jumped out of his hands under duress), or insufficient effect on target (because that .380-spitting mouse gun didn't do much through the thug's layers of heavy clothing) for the malfunction, and end up with the same result.

So, the point:

There will always be one right tool (or at least a narrow selection of tools) for any given job. Yes, there will be a lot of options, and yes, the particular shooter should make their decisions based on what (within the parameters of "sufficient") works best for them. The hard part will be being honest with oneself, and determining what actually WILL be the best option.

Because "whatever Joe is most comfortable with" will often translate into "what Joe enjoys punching paper with the most at the range". And poor Joe may not live to learn the error of his ways.

Except for that bit, I might believe in the Easterrbunny and the Tooth fairy, but 3 functioning rounds in a row!!!!

 

[Sin-ster]

Except for that bit, I might believe in the Easterrbunny and the Tooth fairy, but 3 functioning rounds in a row!!!!

I was curious who would catch that first!

We all know that the thugs are luckier than we are-- as this story illustrates.

 

[dfsutton]

Cops teach those classes. Not lawyers, and not forensics/ballistics experts.

Actually, we have a member on this board who is a lawyer and a certified ccw class instructor. I just need to get off my lazy rear end and take his class.